World Cup Qualifying Third Round Match Day 1: Canada Honduras - Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 - BMO Field, Toronto.

[Wingback6]

 

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

Did you mean to say:  replace Hutch with Kay?  If you did, i am 100% on board with everything you said.. especially the last paragraph.  
 

since i was at the game,  i have had no time to read all the posts. I am sure someone mentioned it.     But whats with the substitutions?  Swapping a defender for another defender when you are tied at home in a game you have to win?  And not using all the subs?  Whats with that?  

No i did not. I just think a point back three man mid in a 3-5-2. AKA 3-1-3-2, OR 3-3-2-2, depending on how you look at it.

Kaye          Eustaquio

         Hutch

As to your second point. That was 2008 vintage Arsene Wenger for sure. Lol.

 

[xabuep2]

7 hours ago, gator said:

We can spin this however we want, they were crucial dropped points which gives us little margin for error, if we don't get a result vs the US the next home match with El Salvador becomes a true "must win", if we go into the next tough window with only 2 or 3 points we will be on the verge of elimination! Call me a drama queen, I truly believe this though!

It is not drama. It is pure math. Honduras is the rival that can get third place.

[apbsmith]

3 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

Herdman does not seem to like Corbeanu. Despite making things happen in his limited appearances... he's been pushed down the depth chart quite far. 

He's played 157 minutes spread over 6 games... which is an average of 26 minutes per game... and he's net 2 goals in that time. He's created plenty more chances as well. Has to be frustrating for him... and honestly for us as fans. 

I think Herdman doesn't want two players who are "high risk" on the wings (ie: Davies + Corbeanu) as it will probably lead to a lot more turnovers in his mind. Even though Tajon was a turnover machine last night.

When Corbeanu can play defense by improving both his defensive ability and defensive positioning he has the potential to fly up our depth charts.  

In the Gold Cup, IMO, I thought it was fairly obvious(his defense), why he didn't get many minutes with us when we were playing mostly a 3-5-2. If we played a 4-3-3 at the gold cup, he's prolly fighting to be a starter at RW/LW or at worse gotten way more minutes.

Trust me, I'm super high on this kid, I think with all his current attributes and skill set, he could become an absolute monster. Just with Canada, based on how we play, I don't think he is there defensively yet.  That could easily change with match minutes or the gaffer can find a way to work him in a bit more once he starts crushing on his current loan spell.

We will definitely need him at some point this window, don't worry his time will come. 

[keysersoze]

It was a risk to change formations, but I don't fault Herdman for wanting to get both Davies and Tajon out there and on the attack. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to see that play out given the ascension of Tajon recently. 

The problem was that Tajon was largely ineffective and switching wings with Davies put a damper on the attack in the first half. The biggest problem was that Atiba just didn't have it. Given Atiba's pedigree and experience I can't fault Herdman for going with him in the 2 man midfield, but to me it was pretty clear that Kaye would have been a better option. I definitely don't understand why there weren't a couple more subs made in the 2nd half. Hoilett was a nice boost replacing Tajon.

There was no connective tissue between the midfield and the striking tandem. Essentially every attack originated from the wing with Davies or Laryea overlapping. For all the possession particularly in the 2nd half there really weren't many great chances. Honduras definitely had more A+ chances. 

Borjan had a solid game and that save he made in the 2nd half was enormous, but I still feel more confident with Crepeau in net. Perhaps it's just me, but I much prefer the calmness a goalkeeper can provide. It feels like the energy Borjan provides manifests itself more negatively than it does positively.

Getting almost nothing out of 13 corners is brutal. Need something off set pieces particularly against a team parking the bus and playing deep.

 

[An Observer]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

As an aside, the Americans are in roughly the same boat as us. A lot of talent but short on WCQ experience. I saw it last night against El Salvador. Very few of their players have the experience of making a World Cup (and none of our players do), so that will even the odds for both countries who are predicted to finish top 3 by many.

The Americans are in a worse boat then us in terms of experience. For something like 9 out of their 11 starters last night, that was their first World Cup qualifying match ever. 

I said this before. The yanks have maybe the most talent in the region right now but that inexperience will hamper them this round.  We had the veteran leadership to steady us at the half and come back strong to tie the match in the second.  I suspect they will be feeling the pressure going into Nashville as they tied one of the weakest sides if not the weakest side on the road and this will be these boys first opportunity in front of their home fans.  We should take a sheet out of the Hondurans play book and soak up the pressure but hit them on the counter.  I think getting a few more veterans like Oso, Hoilet from the beginning, and possibly Kaye over Atiba for the legs will help a lot. Leave Buchanan, David or Larin, and Hutch on the bench to bring on if needed in the last 20 to 30 minutes if we are in with a shout of a result. I would even consider Adekugbe for Davies from the beginning.

Edited September 4, 2021 by An Observer

[Club Linesman]

Just rewatched the first half.  That was not a penalty as I was screaming from 113 last night.  The Honduran player went directly sideways into Tajon (who admittedly put himself in this poor position) to initiate the contact.
Watch the direction of the ball on the replay. It’s travelling toward the touch line at about 11 o’clock but the player is moving at 9. There was no way he had any control of the ball when he initiated the contact.

[Addona]

I was thinking of starting Tajon vs the US since he only got 45 minutes last night and I’m sure that he’ll be desperate to make amends for last night…

[frmr]

2 hours ago, xabuep2 said:

It is not drama. It is pure math. Honduras is the rival that can get third place.

It is drama though. Math does not come into it yet. We have absolutely no idea how the rest of the games are going to pan out. Maybe Honduras loses the rest of their games and finish on one point. Your "math" after one game wouldn't exactly hold up then would it? If this was game 10 or 11, then sure, math comes into it. This round of qualifying is almost half of a season of football. Liverpool just drew Chelsea at home, if they were to draw another top-4 rival at home would people be freaking out? Fuck no! Well actually, yes, the emotionally driven and irrational people would be, just like they are here now. Fucking people calling for Herdman out after the game. Absolutely laughable.

No, it was not an ideal result. That's football. We move on.

[JuicyHam]

12 minutes ago, Addona said:

I was thinking of starting Tajon vs the US since he only got 45 minutes last night and I’m sure that he’ll be desperate to make amends for last night…

He also looked like he was hurt on a tackle 

Edited September 4, 2021 by JuicyHam

[Club Linesman]

He grabbed at his ankle at least three times and was limping that many times as well.  That may have impacted his ability to play significantly and if so I wouldn’t expect to see him play much if at all Sunday.

[Bdog]

Random thoughts

- Good crowd last night, it was actually my first time ever sitting in the south end at BMO and the view is great when Canada was attacking up close.

- The ref sucked ass, nothing super controversial but it looked like every little touch was called a foul on us while Honduras got away with more stuff. The clear simulation really needs to result in yellow cards/retroactive suspensions. Going down holding a body part that wasn't even touched is pathetic.

- We did seem to create a lot of good chances, when Davies is isolated with RBs 1v1 he'll basically get in the box almost every time. In general it felt like crosses weren't finding anyone though. I think we were also a bit unlucky that the finishing wasn't quite there, at least David and Larin don't tend to miss those too often.

- Kennedy looked really good in the few minutes he was on. Near the end Borjan was trying to move the ball quickly and someone was obstructing him, Scott basically body checked the dude out of the way lol. He needs to start over Miller imo.

- After heading into the half down a goal and it feeling like we were somehow going to never going to score, I honestly will take the point. We should have won this one at home but it's too early to overreact considering it's the first game. Plus Honduras is the ultimate CONCACAF shithousery team in the region, I'm sure they'll give Mexico and the States trouble as well.

[A_Gagne]

13 hours ago, narduch said:

A Honduran fan went after Henry according to a Jenkins tweet. I could see something happening from the sout end.

Wow, that sounds like an epically stupid plan.

[RJB]

6 hours ago, Free kick said:

since i was at the game,  i have had no time to read all the posts. I am sure someone mentioned it.     But whats with the substitutions?  Swapping a defender for another defender when you are tied at home in a game you have to win?  And not using all the subs?  Whats with that?  

Benito Floro got all kinds of flack for this.  Herdman must do better.

[Strait Red]

From the Voyageurs Facebook group, this stuff needs to stop. Just reposting the information.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Strait Red

[Bison44]

Its not that there wasnt subs, there was no change in the tactics.  Over and over Miller played it to Davies and he tried his damndest to WILL that ball into the net.    Nothing up the middle (atiba for KAYE or OSORIO), those guys built some good chemistry with Eustaquio in the gold cup, why did we change that??.  The defenders started double teaming the left side and no one took advantage in the middle.  Herdman should have been all over that.  I dont even mind the first half, unlucky for Tajon (those things happen), but when the game needed Herdmans direction, he swapped defender for defender, when defending was not the problem and we needed offense badly.  

And I'll chime in with the guys who are pretty spooked by that game.  Didnt we bemoan dropping point at home last cycle when we fell just short??    How often do we waltz in and take points of the Americans in their house??  How often do we beat Jamaica or Mexico on the road??  We need the home wins!!  If we are thinking we are 3rd best in CONCACAF we need to handle Honduras, Costa rica, ELSalvado at home...no excuses.  

[Hawkguy]

3 hours ago, Club Linesman said:

Just rewatched the first half.  That was not a penalty as I was screaming from 113 last night.  The Honduran player went directly sideways into Tajon (who admittedly put himself in this poor position) to initiate the contact.
Watch the direction of the ball on the replay. It’s travelling toward the touch line at about 11 o’clock but the player is moving at 9. There was no way he had any control of the ball when he initiated the contact.

100% a penalty. 

[BearcatSA]

Finally was able to see the first half.  Yeah, we looked second best too often in that first 45.  They were hungry and certainly up for it.  I dare say that our guys seemed unprepared for this opponents' tempo and may have felt they were going to roll them like they did Costa Rica at the GC.  I was happy to see us look much better in the second half.

I can't stand the Honduran douchery antics but their attacking combos were quite crisp so I am concerned about playing them away.

Wasn't comfortable with Miller back there.  He had some sloppy passes and just gave me the impression of a big mistake waiting to happen.  Kennedy should get the next two starts:  he seems steadier back there.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by BearcatSA

[An Observer]

2 hours ago, Strait Red said:

From the Voyageurs Facebook group, this stuff needs to stop. Just reposting the information.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I don’t like that this happened or condoned it but it seems like it happened once with a few fans.  Get over it.

[Redpunkfiddle]

24 minutes ago, An Observer said:

Honestly, I don’t like that this happened or condoned it but it seems like it happened once with a few fans.  Get over it.

So you don't like it or condone it, but a posting with a modest watch out for this message made you upset? You probably need to take your own advice.

[Free kick]

5 hours ago, An Observer said:

The Americans are in a worse boat then us in terms of experience. For something like 9 out of their 11 starters last night, that was their first World Cup qualifying match ever. 

I said this before. The yanks have maybe the most talent in the region right now but that inexperience will hamper them this round.  We had the veteran leadership to steady us at the half and come back strong to tie the match in the second.  I suspect they will be feeling the pressure going into Nashville as they tied one of the weakest sides if not the weakest side on the road and this will be these boys first opportunity in front of their home fans.  We should take a sheet out of the Hondurans play book and soak up the pressure but hit them on the counter.  I think getting a few more veterans like Oso, Hoilet from the beginning, and possibly Kaye over Atiba for the legs will help a lot. Leave Buchanan, David or Larin, and Hutch on the bench to bring on if needed in the last 20 to 30 minutes if we are in with a shout of a result. I would even consider Adekugbe for Davies from the beginning.

I have heard some even mentioning resting Davies and possibly David for the next match so they can be fresh for the next game against ES (which is now an even more crucial game).   I would agree with inserting Kaye and Osorio because in last nights game the link up play between MF and Fwd’s needed to be better.  This was particularly evident in the first half.  Both Osorio and Kaye can pass the ball very well and osorio is capable of delivering a decisive ball in the final third.  So who comes off?  Kaye in for Hutch is an obvious choice.  But i can only see Osorio in for one of thw two fwd and we would play with one forward. Would be OK with that.  Moreso given that i am not  convinced that Larin and David have developed a good chemistry yet.    You could even play Piette who was oustanding in the Nations league game versus the US at BMO. 

[Free kick]

52 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I can't stand the Honduran douchery antics but their attacking combos were quite crisp so I am concerned about playing them away.

 

 

They (Hondurans) are quick on counter attacks.  We tend to think and want to believe that they are a typical side from Latin america that likes a slow build up with a sequences of short passing and patiently waiting for the decisive through ball.   
 

but thats not what you see from them of you look at their games in WCQ. And we faced them a hell of a lot in the last 20 years.  Their goals against us seem to always result from direct play and out-pacing or our numbering our defenders.  To me, Costa rica are more of the typical tiki-taka team that we associate with South and central america, not Honduras.  

Edited September 4, 2021 by Free kick

[BearcatSA]

15 minutes ago, Free kick said:

They (Hondurans) are quick on counter attacks.  We tend to think and want to believe that they are a typical side from Latin america that likes a slow build up with a seuences of short passing and patiently waiting for the decisive through ball.   
 

but thats not what from them of you look at their games in WCQ. And we faced them a hell of a lot in the last 20 years.  Their goals against us seem to always result from direct play and out-pacing our defenders.  To me, Costa rica are more of the typical tiki-taka team that we associate with Sount and central america, not Honduras.  

Honduras doesn't jack around with the ball at the back, either. They'll route one it as necessary to avoid the press and then look to win it back on a midfield turnover.  Costa Rica will try to play out of danger but when they are "off," like versus us at the GC, you can see the results.

Though they have always been a good counterattacking side  it was when we were back with numbers in a defensive shape that I was concerned with their attacking.  Their off the ball movement was clever and we had trouble dealing with it.

Edited September 4, 2021 by BearcatSA

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Free kick said:

I have heard some even mentioning resting Davies and possibly David for the next match so they can be fresh for the next game against ES (which is now an even more crucial game).   I would agree with inserting Kaye and Osorio because in last nights game the link up play between MF and Fwd’s needed to be better.  This was particularly evident in the first half.  Both Osorio and Kaye can pass the ball very well and osorio is capable of delivering a decisive ball in the final third.  So who comes off?  Kaye in for Hutch is an obvious choice.  But i can only see Osorio in for one of thw two fwd and we would play with one forward. Would be OK with that.  Moreso given that i am not  convinced that Larin and David have developed a good chemistry yet.    You could even play Piette who was oustanding in the Nations league game versus the US at BMO. 

I think if we paid attention to how Atiba is playing for his club, we'd see he is not being used the way we saw him last match. He is not normally a DM, not even in a two-man defensive middle. He pushes forward and has been exempted for part of his deeper defensive duties, except on set pieces. 

Regardless, Hutch and Stephan did not work because they did not have a third mid to line with in the middle. This is where if you'd put Eustaquio with another mid, like Osorio, and let Hutch go further up, or even let Oso push up, or alternate, the system would have worked better. Missing another pure mid, we also were weaker stopping their counters down the middle, or through it, of which there were many. 

Honduras made tactical adjustments constantly. Borjan did not trust sending the ball to the middle as our mids were covered, and often standing beside each other on the same line. That can happen, but their being alone with no link forward through the middle, hurt us.

Finally, free kicks: if you can't make them work, then stop doing them. Keep possession, do a short corner, control out of a restart, and play to your strengths. Modern football does not do what we do with every free kick in the opponents area, long ball in. That is very old-fashioned, has been proven inefficient, and wastes a possession gifted by a foul

Edited September 4, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[An Observer]

28 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I have heard some even mentioning resting Davies and possibly David for the next match so they can be fresh for the next game against ES (which is now an even more crucial game).   I would agree with inserting Kaye and Osorio because in last nights game the link up play between MF and Fwd’s needed to be better.  This was particularly evident in the first half.  Both Osorio and Kaye can pass the ball very well and osorio is capable of delivering a decisive ball in the final third.  So who comes off?  Kaye in for Hutch is an obvious choice.  But i can only see Osorio in for one of thw two fwd and we would play with one forward. Would be OK with that.  Moreso given that i am not  convinced that Larin and David have developed a good chemistry yet.    You could even play Piette who was oustanding in the Nations league game versus the US at BMO. 

In my view, you have Kaye, Osorio and Eustaquio in the middle, Hoilett up top with David (as he didn’t do a lot of running last match and I think is fitter than Larin) and then you have Adekugbe on the left and Laryea on right, with a back three of Kennedy Henry and Johnstone.  I think you can hit them on the counter with this group as you got speed at the wing back position and David up top and the three midfielders can all play the ball forward quickly (as can Kennedy and Johnstone from the back)

[prairiecanuck]

8 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

100% a penalty. 

The Honduran 100% initiated the contact.  It's also a penalty.  There has to be some situational awareness. He was not in a position where he was going to score.  You have to know the player is going to look to initiate contact.  Tajon just had to look to avoid contact and block the cross or shot.  There was no reason to look to make a play on the ball there.  We can't disregard Tajon's abilities either.  He had a bad half of football.  There are many plays in that kid that are going to help Canada make the world cup.