World Cup Qualifying Third Round Match Day 1: Canada Honduras - Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 - BMO Field, Toronto.

[trc2014]

17 minutes ago, gator said:

Some sober second thoughts on last night's match, first of all it was great to get back in the stadium and to watch our team live after almost 2 years away, I saw so many old friends and after this period of lockdowns and isolation you really appreciate this, thanks to all who went out of their way to come over and say hello! This was always going to be a tough match and although it played out different it felt a lot like when we played a scoreless draw with them at BMO in 2012, a clear missed opportunity, let's hope the dropped points don't prove to be as disastrous as they became then! I expressed my displeasure with Herdman in the other thread so I won't dwell on it, suffice to say he got things wrong and the pressure only increases now! Kennedy looked great in the short time he played, Miller was awful and could have cost us all 3 points, maybe that is a positive that JH finally realized that! I think on another day Larin and David make more of the half chances they had, Hoilett was quite good and maybe should start especially if Buchanan is not 100%! This will be a much different match in Nashville, I look forward to it, maybe we pull off a shock?

I had the same déjà vu feeling with the 2012 game, only difference in my mind was we dominated that game.  I would argue Honduras had the better chances last night.

[Ivan]

Atmosphere was great last night.  I brought 4 buddies, two Eurosnobs, and 2 neophytes, and they all enjoyed the game.  One of my buddies and I went to the Jays game the night before and he admitted there was no comparison in terms of atmosphere and excitement. Of course, not a shocker for me.

Anyway, most of my post game thoughts were already posted by most of you on here already, but to summarize:

- Johnston, Laryea, Davies, Borjan were great.

- Atiba, Miller and David (gotta finish one of those son!) were poor.

- I give the Hondurans credit, they played hard.  As I said to my buddies, they want to make the WC as well and have been to 2 of the last 3, narrowly missing in 2018.  

[AvroArrow]

I look at it this way:  If we are going to drop points in a game, I'd rather it be in game 1 then game 14.  At least we have 13 games to make this up.  Just ask the US about dropping points in the last game of 2018 qualifying.

[gator]

1 minute ago, AvroArrow said:

I look at it this way:  If we are going to drop points in a game, I'd rather it be in game 1 then game 14.  At least we have 13 games to make this up.  Just ask the US about dropping points in the last game of 2018 qualifying.

We can spin this however we want, they were crucial dropped points which gives us little margin for error, if we don't get a result vs the US the next home match with El Salvador becomes a true "must win", if we go into the next tough window with only 2 or 3 points we will be on the verge of elimination! Call me a drama queen, I truly believe this though!

[VinceA]

I worry that Herdman is gonna stick to his guns. His sub plan was atrocious and when it was painfully obvious we needed another central midfielder he never bothered.

I hope he knows that when it comes to our offensive options, that too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth.

[AvroArrow]

5 minutes ago, gator said:

We can spin this however we want, they were crucial dropped points which gives us little margin for error, if we don't get a result vs the US the next home match with El Salvador becomes a true "must win", if we go into the next tough window with only 2 or 3 points we will be on the verge of elimination! Call me a drama queen, I truly believe this though!

I don't disagree that it stinks that we didn't walk away from this with 3 points.  All I'm saying that I'd rather do this in Game 1 then in Game 14 because there are no more games to make those points up at that point.  4 points is the bare minimum that we need from these first 3 games, but I was hoping for 5 or 6 (which is still possible).

Edited September 3, 2021 by AvroArrow

[Unnamed Trialist]

Everyone is aware that the giveaway and not picking up the man on the shot Borjan saved amazingly--that was on Davies. 

In the last 10 minutes he came back deeper to pick up the ball, lost it more, and then, stopped. A few plays when he did not even track his man going back. I don't think he was an attacker in a 4-3-3 btw. 

Little details that don't go. But most importantly, as many have said: either you have four at the back and Laryea stays back; or you add a mid and either Laryea (his speed was unnecessary) or Buchanan, sit.

I think it probably should have been the 3-5-2 they want to play, since they are used to it, with the mids being Hutch, Stephan, Osorio, Davies and maybe even Kaye. Larin and David up high. Kennedy in for Miller. A solid side dominating in the middle and not sacrificing an iota in attack.

[Cheeta]

OH!

Props to all the fine people who made it to BMO yesterday.  Goofy set up, strange times and all that but excellent job all.  Well done.

Watched in Spanish (Universo) at Nic's and you all represented.  More of the same please!

[archer21]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Everyone is aware that the giveaway and not picking up the man on the shot Borjan saved amazingly--that was on Davies. 

In the last 10 minutes he came back deeper to pick up the ball, lost it more, and then, stopped. A few plays when he did not even track his man going back. I don't think he was an attacker in a 4-3-3 btw. 

Little details that don't go. But most importantly, as many have said: either you have four at the back and Laryea stays back; or you add a mid and either Laryea (his speed was unnecessary) or Buchanan, sit.

I think it probably should have been the 3-5-2 they want to play, since they are used to it, with the mids being Hutch, Stephan, Osorio, Davies and maybe even Kaye. Larin and David up high. Kennedy in for Miller. A solid side dominating in the middle and not sacrificing an iota in attack.

Who in the world would be on the right with that squad? That’s horribly unbalanced. 

[Kadenge]

Unfortunately all  points are not "equal" for home and away games. What day 1 does tell us is that there is more parity than we all thought going into the Octo. Our guys were a bit too pumped to perform for their fans after 2 yrs. Would have been better if we started on the road. This may sound crazy but I think we will play well in away games. While it's easy to knock tactics after a disappointing result some of our key players were well below their level. My main concern is when the f... are we going to convert on all the corners we win???

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Unfortunately all  points are not "equal" for home and away games. What day 1 does tell us is that there is more parity than we all thought going into the Octo. Our guys were a bit too pumped to perform for their fans after 2 yrs. Would have been better if we started on the road. This may sound crazy but I think we will play well in away games. While it's easy to knock tactics after a disappointing result some of our key players were well below their level. My main concern is when the f... are we going to convert on all the corners we win???

They fired Caldwell.

Time to hire a dead ball coach 

[costarg]

First point I want to make is that BMO was absolutely rocking from what I could tell on the TV!  Great job to all that showed up!  Cannot say that enough.

 

Johnston was phenomenal.  I don’t see how this guy stays in Nashville and MLS much longer.  

 

Buchanan was the opposite.  He really underestimated the level of the opponent and got burned.

 

Not sure what was up with Miller last night, definitely an off night.  I have no doubt he’ll bounce back strong.  

 

Very shaky start for Hutch as well, so many lost balls, very unlike him.  Scratching my head on that one.

 

Arfield in the middle woulda been huge in a game like that.

 

I’ve seen enough of Larin and David together, they’re too alike.  

 

Speaking of attackers, so, Cavallini was at the game, but isn’t cleared to play yet, right?

 

We struggle when teams park the bus, which is what Honduras did most of the game. We need to find a way around that.  At the moment we seem to be a one trick pony and only threaten on quick breaks.  

 

I hate that there is no VAR, this will work against us.  If any federation in the world needs VAR it’s CONCACAF.

 

Need to go back to a middle 3.  I assume Herman expected Hutch and Eustaquio would be good enough at stealing the loose balls in the middle and pass to the wings to attack, but it wasn’t enough.

 

Herdman has pulled some huge rabbits out of the hat with formation switches, but it didn’t work last night.  I would’ve preferred Osorio or Wotherspoon in Laryea’s place.  Laryea did grow into it and showed some good stuff in the last 30, but looked quite lost in the first 60.  I assume he was there to provide more flexibility depending what was required, just didn’t work out.  That being said, can we really blame Herdman’s formation?  How many players played to their potential tonight?  Only two exceeded expectations (Borjan and Johnston).  Miller, Hutch, Buchanan, David, Larin all played below expectations.

 

I think the slow start might actually help us, we needed a reality check.  I truly think I woulda been more worried about the rest of the tournament if we blew them away.  Just look at Tajon’s performance as the perfect example.  Respect the opponents regardless of what you’ve accomplished in the past 2-3 months.  Keep it real, feet on the round, there are 13 more games to go.

 

So glad Berhalter is still in as USA coach, we can do this, especially with him there.

 

I’m hoping for a 4-5-1 vs the USA.  Davies and Laryea on the wings to help out a lone striker.  Put Piette in there for defensive cover.  Vitoria may need to rest, but I absolutely hate the idea of putting Henry in there.  Can Fraser play with Kennedy in the middle?  Adekugbe - Kennedy - Fraser - Johnston

[Kadenge]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

They fired Caldwell.

Time to hire a dead ball coach 

Funny you mentioned that. When we were lining up to get into BMO at the south end we saw Caldwell walking up past us. Weird as I assumed he would have got  VIP access to  BMO

[Hawkguy]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

I worry that Herdman is gonna stick to his guns. His sub plan was atrocious and when it was painfully obvious we needed another central midfielder he never bothered.

I hope he knows that when it comes to our offensive options, that too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth.

I disagree completely. 

Our biggest issues were:

1) That weird switch in the first half that lasted 30 minutes for no reason and completely killed the decent flow we started the game with.

2) Tajon starting and not being strong enough physically to battle for space

3) Most importantly, our end product was poor. We had so many opportunities to feed David or Larin in the box, and we just couldn't do it. So many corners. So many missed crosses. The end product was just not there last night. David and Larin can't score if they get no service.

4) Oh and Miller/Vitoria's lack of foot speed. If we're basically playing 3 at the back, which in reality is what we did, Kennedy and Johnston need to be on The outside because of their speed and ability to win 1 on 1 battles. 

5) Not really in our control, but the time wasting from Honduras and obvious ref bias (not talking about fouls). +4 minutes? In what world?! The Honduras keeper took naps longer than 4 minutes himself!

Edited September 3, 2021 by Hawkguy

[sebdeserio]

6 hours ago, masster said:

Agree with your whole post, except the point above. There were moments I was screaming at the TV, only to find on the replay that the ref in fact did make the right call. On the whole, I think he did a good job. I hope we will see the same for the remaining games.

Still think he was too lenient with them but with the combination of the view from the southend and beers affecting me I'll concede that maybe he wasn't as bad as I thought he was during the game.

[El Diego]

I know people will call me crazy, but I would have subbed off David for Osorio or Wotherspoon. I also know that this will sound very knee jerky but Buchanan should not start for us. I was not as impressed as others with him in the Gold Cup. He is able to have moments, but he is not consistent enough. I like him as a purely attacking player if we have space, but not as a wing back against good teams, or as an attacker when the other team is retreating. 

[Hawkguy]

2 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Still think he was too lenient with them but with the combination of the view from the southend and beers affecting me I'll concede that maybe he wasn't as bad as I thought he was during the game.

He was too lenient on the time wasting. But I'm also the guy who hates unsportsmanlike conduct... So I'd start carding people for time blatant wasting after one warning.

His calls during the game were fine. It was just the lack of calls. 

[Hawkguy]

3 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I know people will call me crazy, but I would have subbed off David for Osorio or Wotherspoon. I also know that this will sound very knee jerky but Buchanan should not start for us. I was not as impressed as others with him in the Gold Cup. He is able to have moments, but he is not consistent enough. I like him as a purely attacking player if we have space, but not as a wing back against good teams, or as an attacker when the other team is retreating. 

Corbeanu is better than Buchanan against well put together sides. I don't see what Herdman does. At 19, Corbeanu is much more physically mature and can match the physicality. 

Tajon should be a super sub right now. Having him at the end of the game last night when Honduras were clearly tired would have been a benefit. 

[CCrTFC]

Been lurking for a while, first time poster.  I was there last night, I do feel the game was crying out for Osorio, and Kennedy over Miller for sure next game. Agreed with the idea of Buchanan as a super sub.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Corbeanu is better than Buchanan against well put together sides. I don't see what Herdman does. At 19, Corbeanu is much more physically mature and can match the physicality. 

Tajon should be a super sub right now. Having him at the end of the game last night when Honduras were clearly tired would have been a benefit. 

Not calling Corbeanu and Millar was a mistake. 

One of them could have been on the 23 player roster for yesterday 

[Obinna]

Honduras played to their potential last night and we did not, yet we still managed a draw. Regardless of everything else that has been said, we have to consider that as a positive as we move forward. 

[The Beaver 2.0]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Unfortunately all  points are not "equal" for home and away games. What day 1 does tell us is that there is more parity than we all thought going into the Octo. Our guys were a bit too pumped to perform for their fans after 2 yrs. Would have been better if we started on the road. This may sound crazy but I think we will play well in away games. While it's easy to knock tactics after a disappointing result some of our key players were well below their level. My main concern is when the f... are we going to convert on all the corners we win???

We've only played on the road for the last two years, yes?  We own the road.  We won't be intimidated.

[The Beaver 2.0]

The ball-watching aside, I think we need to cut Tajon a bit of slack. Tajon suffered, I feel, for the same reasons that David did, and Larin (to a lesser extent): they got poor service.  We needed that third midfielder at CM, likely Oso, to link with the forwards and make shit happen.  Larin dropped deep a number of times to receive the ball, but that is not the same as having a guy like Oso linking creatively with the forwards all game long.  3-5-2 is what we need.  

[sose]

Definitely need 3 in the middle.  Could have used Oso or Wotherspoon in the middle.

[Kusch to the Corner]

13 hours ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

I know it is only match day one, but could we be nearing quasi-parity in our region?  Could the gap between Mexico/USA and several other nations only be very slight now?  Costa Rica, Jamaica, Canada, Honduras all in the mix? 

There has been a lot of talk about the point requirement to be in third or fourth place. That being 21-23 points. I ran my own simulation and figured there would be a lot of ties, which brings that point requirement down to 18 -19 points potentially. 

After last night's disappointment parity may be our friend.