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World Cup Qualifying Third Round Match Day 1: Canada Honduras - Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 - BMO Field, Toronto.


Cblake

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Not sure if this has been covered. But I think Herdman got his tactics wrong last night. And we can pin our failure on that. Because it was a failure. Make no mistake.

Hutch just does not have the legs to play in a two man midfield. Not anymore. Replace Laryea with Kaye, and go to a 3-5-2, and I think we see a different result. Honduras was able to defend effectively because we could just not switch play without going all the way back to the D.

Eustaquio was forced to cover too much ground, and too often we were getting pinned along the flank, only to go backward when nothing concrete presented itself, or went in for crosses that H was clearly expecting and prepared for.

We created very few quality chances, and struggled to move the ball in a meaningful consistent way. Worst part is, I am concerned we burnt ourselves out with such high-tempo, wasteful football. I hope for Herdman's sake, he starts to get it right.

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4 hours ago, Ingham said:

I'm going to play devils advocate. For a team with the quality of Honduras, these antics are what win games.

I am South American and have seen Chile win the Copa America twice, who were a very dislikeable team with similar sort of provocations. If you're able to wind up the opponent with these antics and get away with it, it's a talent and almost a necessary one to win in the modern game.

Canada will need to learn to not fall for these in order to survive against opposition like this. Players like Vidal, Gonzalo Jara, Luis Suarez, Walter Gargano, and a more familiar Jose Escalante have this talent, and it's part of why they are so successful for their leagues or their team. It unsettles the opposition.

i think our players reacted well to the antics, like a "not our first rodeo" sort of attitude. i feel like the commentators were more concerned about it than our players were.

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10 minutes ago, Wingback6 said:

Hutch just does not have the legs to play in a two man midfield. Not anymore. Replace Laryea with Kaye

agree on hutch, i hate to say it but i thought he was the weakest link last night, just didn't have the touch and doesn't have the legs to make up for it anymore. not ready to take him out of the starting 11 yet, but i definitely would've used a sub on him at some point.

laryea was our best offensive player all game, we need to keep him on the pitch.

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7 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

agree on hutch, i hate to say it but i thought he was the weakest link last night, just didn't have the touch and doesn't have the legs to make up for it anymore. not ready to take him out of the starting 11 yet, but i definitely would've used a sub on him at some point.

laryea was our best offensive player all game, we need to keep him on the pitch.

Let’s cut him some slack in the sense that he was part of a 2 man pairing left on an island. That’s tough circumstances for anyone but my god Eustaquio is a monster. Unbelievably good player.

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Sorry if this has been mentioned or discussed already (too many posts to catch up on), but I strongly believe the very one-sided referring cost us the 3 points. Upon further review I think the penalty was warranted but there were so many other questionable fouls he called that stopped our momentum and killed off many attacks. And it didn't help that he ignored all Honduran time-wasting, which IMO deserved a card or two.

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3 minutes ago, canadianbacons said:

Sorry if this has been mentioned or discussed already (too many posts to catch up on), but I strongly believe the very one-sided referring cost us the 3 points. Upon further review I think the penalty was warranted but there were so many other questionable fouls he called that stopped our momentum and killed off many attacks. And it didn't help that he ignored all Honduran time-wasting, which IMO deserved a card or two.

Quioto pretending to be hit in the face when someone brushed his chest was fucking pathetic and 100% should have been carded. I have no respect for that shit, I hope we fucking smash them in Honduras and embarrass them in front of their own fans. 

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If we stick with three in the back, have Kennedy come in for Miller.  If we go 3-5-2, start Kaye as one of the central mids for home fixtures and Osorio as the road warrior.  Kaye has the better incisive passing instincts while Osorio has shown in CCL that he can raise his game in unfriendly confines and help the team grind out results. 

If we need to kill off a game, home or away, I think Hutch is better off the bench.  His vast experience in positional play would help a ton in keeping the guys organized and not falling back on top of the keeper, like we saw on the Mexican winner at the Gold Cup, where Fraser was camped on the six yard box beside Henry and the rest of the back line, while Osorio and Staq were helping Johnston chase Pizarro who passed back to two wide open late arriving mids at the edge of the box.  Love Staq, but he is still a relatively young guy who can get lost in the moment.

I am still really curious to see what kind of rotation happens for the next match.

Edited by BearcatSA
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6 minutes ago, frmr said:

Quioto pretending to be hit in the face when someone brushed his chest was fucking pathetic and 100% should have been carded. I have no respect for that shit, I hope we fucking smash them in Honduras and embarrass them in front of their own fans. 

I am optimistic about playing away because we have some very athletic players who can cover a lot of ground, such as Kaye, Davies, Laryea, etc. In the back we have players with legs, such as Kennedy and Johnston. I wouldn't take it to the bank or anything, but I think we can get a win away at San Pedro Sula. And not just because we have better players now, but rather it's more about the profile of players we have.

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I am a bit too lazy to do player ratings for matches in this forum.  It requires a lot thought and revising.   But i agree with these RATINGS: 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/canada-player-ratings-richie-laryea-alistair-johnston-impress-in-wcq-draw-vs-hon

Except that he missed Tajon Buchanans injury.  Which we could see him grabbing at his ankle midway in the first half.  
 

Edited by Free kick
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22 minutes ago, frmr said:

Quioto pretending to be hit in the face when someone brushed his chest was fucking pathetic and 100% should have been carded. I have no respect for that shit, I hope we fucking smash them in Honduras and embarrass them in front of their own fans. 

Or Miller, who the infraction was with, and Piette, Pantemis, ZBG, Waterman, Breza, Choiniere, Bassong... etc can ride him the rest of the year for bein a POS

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

Not calling Corbeanu and Millar was a mistake. 

One of them could have been on the 23 player roster for yesterday 

Herdman does not seem to like Corbeanu. Despite making things happen in his limited appearances... he's been pushed down the depth chart quite far. 

He's played 157 minutes spread over 6 games... which is an average of 26 minutes per game... and he's net 2 goals in that time. He's created plenty more chances as well. Has to be frustrating for him... and honestly for us as fans. 

I think Herdman doesn't want two players who are "high risk" on the wings (ie: Davies + Corbeanu) as it will probably lead to a lot more turnovers in his mind. Even though Tajon was a turnover machine last night.

Edited by Hawkguy
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6 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Or Miller, who the infraction was with, and Piette, Pantemis, ZBG, Waterman, Breza, Choiniere, Bassong... etc can ride him the rest of the year for bein a POS

As great as Piette is... Piette would have had a red card last night with the way Honduras was diving and the referee was buying into each one. Thank goodness Henry didn't play or he'd have had 19 red cards. 

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2 hours ago, Wingback6 said:
2 hours ago, Wingback6 said:

Not sure if this has been covered. But I think Herdman got his tactics wrong last night. And we can pin our failure on that. Because it was a failure. Make no mistake.

Hutch just does not have the legs to play in a two man midfield. Not anymore. Replace Laryea with Kaye, and go to a 3-5-2, and I think we see a different result. Honduras was able to defend effectively because we could just not switch play without going all the way back to the D.

Eustaquio was forced to cover too much ground, and too often we were getting pinned along the flank, only to go backward when nothing concrete presented itself, or went in for crosses that H was clearly expecting and prepared for.

We created very few quality chances, and struggled to move the ball in a meaningful consistent way. Worst part is, I am concerned we burnt ourselves out with such high-tempo, wasteful football. I hope for Herdman's sake, he starts to get it right.

 

Did you mean to say:  replace Hutch with Kay?  If you did, i am 100% on board with everything you said.. especially the last paragraph.  
 

since i was at the game,  i have had no time to read all the posts. I am sure someone mentioned it.     But whats with the substitutions?  Swapping a defender for another defender when you are tied at home in a game you have to win?  And not using all the subs?  Whats with that?  

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5 hours ago, Ivan said:

Atmosphere was great last night.  I brought 4 buddies, two Eurosnobs, and 2 neophytes, and they all enjoyed the game.  One of my buddies and I went to the Jays game the night before and he admitted there was no comparison in terms of atmosphere and excitement. Of course, not a shocker for me.

Anyway, most of my post game thoughts were already posted by most of you on here already, but to summarize:

- Johnston, Laryea, Davies, Borjan were great.

- Atiba, Miller and David (gotta finish one of those son!) were poor.

- I give the Hondurans credit, they played hard.  As I said to my buddies, they want to make the WC as well and have been to 2 of the last 3, narrowly missing in 2018.  

I think you summed it up well.  To their credit, they didnt bunker.  So there was the chance right there for canada.  Luckily for canada.  Because had Honduras decided to bunker, they might have escaped with a win.

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4 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Did you mean to say:  replace Hutch with Kay?  If you did, i am 100% on board with everything you said.. especially the last paragraph.  
 

since i was at the game,  i have had no time to read all the posts. I am sure someone mentioned it.     But whats with the substitutions?  Swapping a defender for another defender when you are tied at home in a game you have to win?  And not using all the subs?  Whats with that?  

My take on this is Herdman wanted to get Kennedy a few minutes so he's "ready" for his start on Sunday against the US. He did this a couple times in the Gold Cup.

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5 minutes ago, johnyb said:

My take on this is Herdman wanted to get Kennedy a few minutes so he's "ready" for his start on Sunday against the US. He did this a couple times in the Gold Cup.

This was my read on it as well.

The question for me now is how much does he ride Kennedy now in light of Millers "mixed" performance? 

Edited by Obinna
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1 hour ago, johnyb said:

My take on this is Herdman wanted to get Kennedy a few minutes so he's "ready" for his start on Sunday against the US. He did this a couple times in the Gold Cup.

I hope it works!  Because now,  to straighten out the ship,  a result against the US is even more important.  Whereas, with a win last night,  we would still have been on course with a loss in Nashville. 

Edited by Free kick
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2 hours ago, canadianbacons said:

Sorry if this has been mentioned or discussed already (too many posts to catch up on), but I strongly believe the very one-sided referring cost us the 3 points. Upon further review I think the penalty was warranted but there were so many other questionable fouls he called that stopped our momentum and killed off many attacks. And it didn't help that he ignored all Honduran time-wasting, which IMO deserved a card or two.

That’s just how it goes sometimes. Trust me, if you watch though this cycle we will suffer far worse injustices than we saw last game. This was 6/10 CONCACAF at best.

And begrudgingly, I’d say they played a smart game and were full value for the tie. They hit the post and had some good counters. We tactically shot ourselves in the foot with the lineup choices and our set pieces / corners were shit.

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We got our tactics wrong. Get that right, then we would have had the right cats on the field. David up front with Larin, supported by a midfield of Eustaquio, Hutch, and Oso in the middle, and Davies and Laryea on the wings, is as much tinkering as we probably had to do. (yeah, maybe Kennedy for Miller, but I don't fault Herdman for that decision.)

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Finally found a way to watch the extended highlights. Having not seen the full match, it is all I can comment on. 
 

After waking this morning, seeing the score and the crappy two min highlights on the CSA YouTube, I was pretty down. I figured it was another Canadian side devoid of any attacking ideas or cutting edge who couldn’t score from open play. After seeing extended highlights I am actually feeling much better. Yes, no goals from open play but I did see Canada create more than enough chances to have won that match but were let down by the finishing of David and Larin who do have a track record of scoring goals at a high level. Not sure why they were so blunt in front of goal last night but on another night they could have each had a goal from open play. I am more than happy for someone who actually saw the whole match to put me right if I have it wrong, but I feel a lot more optimistic for match against the yanks. And best of all, I should now be able to watch the extended highlights in the morning.  
 

The penalty conceded by Tajon was definitely a penalty for me. Very clumsy and the worst part was that it didn’t look like the Honduran player was going to make anything of it before being knocked over. It was a challenge that just wasn’t needed. 
 

Points dropped at home to Honduras is definitely an opportunity missed but a lot can happen in the remaining 13 matches. 

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The bad news is that the occasion got to our boys. I said before the narrative would add pressure. The combination of not playing at home in 2 years, not playing in the final round since 97, being expected to win, etc., it was all too much for this young group to handle, and they never played with a cool head. That's why David was shanking chances, Davies was trying to do too much, Tajon was going into tackles he never needed to make, etc.

I would even extend this to Herdman. There was never a reason to change things up from the Gold Cup, but he also got too cute with his tinkering for this one. KISS. 

The good news is that a) we got that out of our system, and b) we got a reality check about what it takes to win. Even in the second half we turned it around and never folded. The fighting spirit was always there, thanks to the prior rounds and the Gold Cup success, but so was our youthful naivety. We'll get better as this goes on, I am sure of that.

As an aside, the Americans are in roughly the same boat as us. A lot of talent but short on WCQ experience. I saw it last night against El Salvador. Very few of their players have the experience of making a World Cup (and none of our players do), so that will even the odds for both countries who are predicted to finish top 3 by many.

Those predictions always put more emphasis on talent than experience, but if there's any region where the importance of experience rivals the importance of talent, it's concacaf.

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3 hours ago, canadianbacons said:

Sorry if this has been mentioned or discussed already (too many posts to catch up on), but I strongly believe the very one-sided referring cost us the 3 points. Upon further review I think the penalty was warranted but there were so many other questionable fouls he called that stopped our momentum and killed off many attacks. And it didn't help that he ignored all Honduran time-wasting, which IMO deserved a card or two.

I agree that the ref was terrible. He stank of CONCACAF of years past. Was so slow to get his whistle when we were fouled. But so fast when Canada was the potential culprit. But I disagree that it cost us the game. Playing a 4-4-2 with a two man mid cost us the game, and possibly the next one.

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