The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[Floortom]

This sucks but I’m sure he will be absolutely fine.

to add to this discussion, many cardiac specialists have denounced the diagnosis of myocarditis of asymptomatic individuals through CMR only (Which is what Bayern did in this case). In fact there was a large open letter written by many top heart surgeons and specialists doing so as the belief is there’s  no evidence at all that these findings have any clinical significance

more about the issue here 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88704

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Floortom

[bwilly11]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just read the medical analysis I posted, it is not so hard, otherwise you are just posting speculative BS 

Summary:

viruses can cause myocarditis, which is an inflammation of the heart muscle. 

As they say his is mild, that suggests he does not have pain or other associated symptoms in worse cases. If he had no complaints, they saw this in a routine test after a training session, which we have to be pleased they did.

There is some evidence of further problems with younger men, especially teen, namely pericarditis, inflammation around the heart, but there is no word of this being his case. There is also some evidence of vaccines causing mild myocarditis and pericarditis, especially amongst younger men, in the week after, but this is not his case.

What is usually prescribed is rest, for this inflammation to do down. Diet shifts can also be recommended. There are also drug options, including antiobiotic and corticosteroid, but as they don't mention these being confidential, of course, so we don't know what treatment plan he is on other than not training.

It need not have long-term effects.

If they say a 2-week rest, which takes us up to the international window, then he'd likely miss our qualifiers this round. It may be best to go into this without thinking of him, so whoever is on the pitch knows they have to pick up the slack.

Like I said, I have personally experienced it at the same age. Speaking from experience, the recovery is not as straight forward as what you may think. Don't shoot the messenger. I was being no more speculative then what you or anyone else has to say on the matter. I hope he recovers and does so quickly, but I am not a physician, nor are you. You look at is glass half full, I look at it glass half empty. Hope for the best, and assume the worst. Mild or not, there will be no risks taken with him, which is way I see a longer road.

[prairiecanuck]

30 minutes ago, bwilly11 said:

Now we will see what this team is really made of. Thankfully Davies is younger and has a strong heart, but this won't be a fast recovery. Even with the best medicine available they won't risk anything when it comes to the ticker. I feel for the kid, I had heart issues at the same age and it took a good year to get comfortable with light physical activity while medicated. I can see why Aguero decided it wasn't worth continuing. Obviously I'm just spitballing from my desk, but if be happy if he just makes it to the World Cup, WCQ seem way too soon to me....but I ain't a MD

 

 

Recovery time in young people, even in more acute cases of myocarditis is usually within a week or two.  I'm sure he'll be getting follow ups to see how he's progressing.  Comparing mycarditis to other more serious heart ailments is probably unwise.  

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Floortom said:

This sucks but I’m sure he will be absolutely fine.

to add to this discussion, many cardiac specialists have denounced the diagnosis of myocarditis of asymptomatic individuals through CMR only (Which is what Bayern did in this case). In fact there was a large open letter written by many top heart surgeons and specialists doing so as the belief is there’s  no evidence at all that these findings have any clinical significance

more about the issue here 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88704

 

Rollins already speculating this may have been a little convenient 

[Approve My Account Pls]

It does sound like this is more precautionary than anything based on the wording from Bayern. Perhaps they picked up the slight change on ultrasound and said let's not fuck with this and play it safe, which is definitely the right call.

Here's hoping Phonsy heals quick, but from a MNT perspective, I'm confident that the depth of our squad will carry us through this window just as well. Next man up mentality, and we've got some great options who's turn it will be to step up.

[El Diego]

18 minutes ago, narduch said:

Rollins already speculating this may have been a little convenient 

This doesn't make sense to me. Are Bayern going to keep him out of their next two matches just so just they ensure he misses the international window? What am I missing?

EDIT: my generous interpretation is he means that Bayern will say recovery will take longer than the window when it in fact may not... but not sure I see a conspiracy there, either

[CanadaFan123]

It's crazy and comforting to face the prospect of missing the best player in CONCACAF and to look at our options for wingers.

We still have Hoilett, Buchanan, Millar and Corbeanu. And that's only if we decide to play wingers... we could run a 3-5-2 with Adekugbe, the best player from last window, as the LWB and 2 strikers. 

[zeelaw]

Two things. Shitty news but COVID got us into the final stage so, lets not lose sight of that...

Also, maybe some of these embarrassing #CMNT Twitter Users stirring shit with the American fans will stfu now.

[theaub]

1 minute ago, zeelaw said:

Also, maybe some of these embarrassing #CMNT Twitter Users stirring shit with the American fans will stfu now.

We can only hope...

[nfitz]

There's a CBC article now - https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/alphonso-davies-covid-myocarditis-1.6314813

Covid sucks.

Who's for moving the January games to June?

[grigorio]

38 minutes ago, narduch said:

Rollins already speculating this may have been a little convenient 

Not suggesting it is the case, but any time I stop to think about Bayern learning that Davies has to go to Honduras AND El Salvador during a raging pandemic to get run and tackled into the ground over 3 games in a really short window always just seems so unlikely that they'd be totally fine with it...

[CanadaFan123]

5 minutes ago, grigorio said:

Not suggesting it is the case, but any time I stop to think about Bayern learning that Davies has to go to Honduras AND El Salvador during a raging pandemic to get run and tackled into the ground over 3 games in a really short window always just seems so unlikely that they'd be totally fine with it...

Yeah and even if he was recovered just in time for our window but had to miss their next two games I can't see them being okay with it. Obviously it sucks but of course they would push the recovery time back a little more. They would probably do the same for any international player.

[CCrTFC]

33 minutes ago, nfitz said:

There's a CBC article now - https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/alphonso-davies-covid-myocarditis-1.6314813

Covid sucks.

Who's for moving the January games to June?

I just wanted to share what I witnessed at work just now in the breakroom. They had CBCNN on and they had a Heather Hiscox talking about the story with a doctor, for at least a few minutes. They even had a "breaking news" chyron and everything. Of course it's unfortunate news, but I was impressed with the coverage. 

[jonovision]

Obviously this sucks. Still, we can beat El Salvador without Phonzie (after all, we already have done so in this cycle). Honduras is an even worse opponent who we played when the boys hadn't quite started clicking yet. The USA match will be tricky but that was always going to be the case.

We've got this.

[Dominic94]

If Davies misses anything less than a month I’ll have questions…. The reality is that a diagnosis like this should be the end of his season or Atleast he’s out for a couple of months, 2-4 weeks of rest doesn’t cut it. This is literally life threatening.

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, Dominic94 said:

If Davies misses anything less than a month I’ll have questions…. The reality is that a diagnosis like this should be the end of his season or Atleast he’s out for a couple of months, 2-4 weeks of rest doesn’t cut it. This is literally life threatening.

Myocarditis, like many ailments, can have a wide range of outcomes, from mild to severe. In most instances it is not life threatening.

[Shway]

Ironically spursflu and I were just making mention of this heart shit.

Somebody made mention of 10k people running a marathon, and everyone was a.ok….but the difference is probably no one got the medical attention that Davies got.

This is the same thing that make Aguero have to retire, after having a long illustrious career that wasn’t finished.

I hope Davies takes the necessary time to recover, however long it takes. It sucks he’ll be out, but I’m happy he’s not on a medical bed. 

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

Ironically spursflu and I were just making mention of this heart shit.

Somebody made mention of 10k people running a marathon, and everyone was a.ok….but the difference is probably no one got the medical attention that Davies got.

This is the same thing that make Aguero have to retire, after having a long illustrious career that wasn’t finished.

I hope Davies takes the necessary time to recover, however long it takes. It sucks he’ll be out, but I’m happy he’s not on a medical bed. 

You sure about that?

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

Ironically spursflu and I were just making mention of this heart shit.

Somebody made mention of 10k people running a marathon, and everyone was a.ok….but the difference is probably no one got the medical attention that Davies got.

This is the same thing that make Aguero have to retire, after having a long illustrious career that wasn’t finished.

I hope Davies takes the necessary time to recover, however long it takes. It sucks he’ll be out, but I’m happy he’s not on a medical bed. 

No it's not. Aguero had cardiac arrhythmia. 

This is (supposedly) mild and as others have posted it can be treated in a short amount of time. Let's hope he gets the rest needed to clear it up and he comes back stronger.

[N1ckbr0wn]

Absolutely gutted for the lad. Such a young talent you would hate to see something like this hinder his career in any capacity.

Making me lean towards a postponement of this window.. remember, David, Atiba, Larin and Borjan are just getting over covid. Why put our lads at that kind of risk.

best of luck on recovery Phonzie, take it easy.

[Floortom]

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

This is the same thing that make Aguero have to retire, after having a long illustrious career that wasn’t finished.

I hope Davies takes the necessary time to recover, however long it takes. It sucks he’ll be out, but I’m happy he’s not on a medical bed. 

No it isnt - Augero had cardiac arryhthmia

23 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

If Davies misses anything less than a month I’ll have questions…. The reality is that a diagnosis like this should be the end of his season or Atleast he’s out for a couple of months, 2-4 weeks of rest doesn’t cut it. This is literally life threatening.

Nope. As I posted above, diagnosing myocarditis based purely on a Cardiac scan is a controversial practice that was never done prior to the Covid pandemic. There is no evidence it is helpful or even valid.  If you pluck 100 people off the street and randomly give them a CMR you will almost certainly be able to find some heart inflammation amongst the sample. Is there any evidence that this requires intervention if the people are not experiencing actual symptoms? no. 

Here is what the American Heart Association's statement was -"The American Heart Association's position on this is that in general we agree that routine cardiac MRI should not be conducted unless in the course of a study" for COVID-19 patients, he said. "There's a lot of evolving information around people with COVID, and certainly asymptomatic status, whether it's recent or prior, it's not clearly known what the MRI findings will mean or what the long-term implications are without both a control group and an understanding around population."

The Society for Cardiac Magnetic Resonance quickly responded with a brief statement from its chief executive officer, Chiara Bucciarelli-Ducci, MD, PhD, agreeing that routine CMR in asymptomatic patients after COVID-19 "is currently not justified... and it should not be encouraged."

Edited January 14, 2022 by Floortom

[Mattd97]

13 minutes ago, Shway said:

Ironically spursflu and I were just making mention of this heart shit.

Somebody made mention of 10k people running a marathon, and everyone was a.ok….but the difference is probably no one got the medical attention that Davies got.

This is the same thing that make Aguero have to retire, after having a long illustrious career that wasn’t finished.

I hope Davies takes the necessary time to recover, however long it takes. It sucks he’ll be out, but I’m happy he’s not on a medical bed. 

The marathon was about the vaccine, not having covid.  Myocarditis is a rare outcome of both, but statistically is far more prevalent with actual covid.  But youre not wrong that it seems this was picked up not because of any symptoms but because Bayern did abnormal (for the general public) testing.

[gator]

8 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

 

Making me lean towards a postponement of this window.. remember, David, Atiba, Larin and Borjan are just getting over covid. Why put our lads at that kind of risk.

 

I think FIFA is going to want these matches played regardless of who is missing due to illness or travel restrictions, this window could become a real crap shoot!

[Free kick]

11 minutes ago, gator said:

I think FIFA is going to want these matches played regardless of who is missing due to illness or travel restrictions, this window could become a real crap shoot!

Yes.  They have to do the WC draw in April.  And the reason that they can do this in April is likely because there would only be the intercontinental playoffs left to complete (ie.:just two teams left to qualify).   Since the draw determines the locations of groups and teams, one can easily see that there would be significant logistical issues if you moved the whole January window to June.  It would screw up a lot of ppl’s planning and hurt attendance and vistors to Qatar.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Free kick

[Floortom]

Just now, Free kick said:

Yes.  They have to do the WC draw in April.  And the reason that they can do this in April is likely because there would only be the intercontinental playoffs left to complete (ie.:just two teams left to qualify).   Since the draw determines the locations of groups and teams, one can easily see that there would be significant logistical issues if you moved the whole January window to June.  It would screw up a lot of ppl’s planning and hurt attendance and vistors to Qatar.  

I dont buy that - the draw could easily be done in June. The World Cup starts in late November - thats more than enough time for planning and tourism concerns.

The only they dont want to move the window to June is because they would have to cancel the Nations League window and lose $$. Thats it.