Derek Cornelius

[Metro]

All three teams can use him at this point.

[Obinna]

Not saying it would happen, but wouldn't Cornelius to TFC make sense?

He's a Toronto boy, firstly.

Secondly, they need an alternative to Chris Mavinga. At least they need someone to compete with him, if not start over him, and Cornelius would a reasonable choice.

Thirdly, no international spot required.

Fourthly, he would be playing alongside the likes of Insigne, Bernadeschi, Criscito, Osorio (maybe), Laryea (bigger maybe) Kaye, and Bradley. He's not playing with that level of talent right now, nor would he be in Vancouver, and he's probably wouldn't be if he stepped up to a club like Ferencvárosi, which he was reportedly linked to a while back. They may arguably be better further down the roster, but the upper end of the roster isn't as good (FWIW) and if he wants to stay in Europe but take a small step up from Panetolikos and join a club where he'll actually play, it'll probably be a similar situation. 

Fifthly (is that a word?), he'll play alongside multiple international teammates: Even if Osorio and Laryea leave, Kaye is still firmly in the pool, Nelson will be forcing his way in, Akinola will be getting looks, and players like Kerr, Thompson and Petrasso could push for a future look (not including Rutty either).

I know at Montreal there is Pantemis, ZBG, Waterman, Piette, and Choniere (who should be involved next cycle), but Kone is good as gone, while Johnston and Miller could leave shortly as well. Vancouver, meanwhile, are seemingly ready to ship out Cavallini, and there's not really any other mainstays after that. Montreal or Toronto would be his best bet of building some CMNT chemistry at the club level. 

[Ansem]

He's doing well in Greece - I'd be surprised if his clubs wouldn't try to keep him or Derek looking to move within Europe. He clearly belongs there. Let's not forget MLS is over until spring - he'll want to keep playing

[Kadenge]

I think many have forgotten that Derek partnered Vitoria at CB in that big 2-0 win vs the USA at BMO. He really hasn't put a foot wrong in a Canada shirt. I know Miller has jumped ahead but I would not be concerned if Derek had to step in during our WC games

[Ansem]

I really don't understand the overlooking of Cornelius, especially when I see Waterman being named ahead of him. He's playing the lion share of the minutes at his position in a good league. I know MLS is closer to us and we see more footage but Cornelius is right up there with Vitoria and Miller, ahead of the rest in my opinion

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I really don't understand the overlooking of Cornelius, especially when I see Waterman being named ahead of him. He's playing the lion share of the minutes at his position in a good league. I know MLS is closer to us and we see more footage but Cornelius is right up there with Vitoria and Miller, ahead of the rest in my opinion

Waterman is a right foot and Cornelius, as up there as he may be, is arguably 3rd in the left foot CB pecking order. Do you take 3 lefties and 1 righty (Johnston)? Or do you take 2 of each? Those who prefer 2 of each look to Waterman over Cornelius. That's the logic behind it, right or wrong. 

The assumption here too, I should add, is that Henry and Vitoria are not options for the RCB spot. 

Edit: And Waterman has the added bonus of theoretically being able to cover the middle of the back 3, whereas Cornelius (rightly or wrongly) is not viewed as an option there. 

If you put all of that stuff aside and just look at past caps, past camp involvements, and history with the team, no doubt it's hard to understand why anyone would want Waterman over Cornelius - especially with Derek playing just as well at club level (by all accounts).

Edited October 21, 2022 by Obinna

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

I think many have forgotten that Derek partnered Vitoria at CB in that big 2-0 win vs the USA at BMO. He really hasn't put a foot wrong in a Canada shirt. I know Miller has jumped ahead but I would not be concerned if Derek had to step in during our WC games

I feel better with him stepping in than Henry or Hutch at CB.

[trc2014]

I wish Cornelius had got more Canada minutes in qualifying. There is an argument in my mind to give him half of the Japan game.  All this talk about Henry getting starting/serious minutes on the NF Podcast has me concerned.

[Metro]

Speaking of which, he's currently starting against league leaders PAO right now.  0-0 nearing the half.

He's obviously has had the starting CB spot locked down for a while now.  I can't wait to see what happens to him when his loan expires in January.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, trc2014 said:

I wish Cornelius had got more Canada minutes in qualifying. There is an argument in my mind to give him half of the Japan game.  All this talk about Henry getting starting/serious minutes on the NF Podcast has me concerned.

Herdman implies with his most recent comments that Henry is a key piece that needs to get up to speed, so I think that's what will see.

[Corazon]

Like many on here, I do fear having to use Henry in Qatar. 

However, lets remember a few things here:

1) He is integral to brotherhood and his leadership on this team.

2) He has far more professional experience than any of our other CB's on the bubble.

3) He has significantly more international experience than any of our other CB's on the bubble.

4) The fear of him receiving a red card and committing a penalty are overstated, especially with the National Team (although his play does leave cause for concern).

5) He really didn't have any mistakes or errors in the 8 games he played in Qualfying (532 minutes) and the 4 games he played in last summers Gold Cup(198 minutes).  His one start vs Mexico he did struggle and apparently had an injury.  In fact the team hasn't lost a game

With all that being said, it is his club form in 2022 that has really disappointed or been non-existent.  I am a big fan of Cornelius and have wanted to see him more in the past couple years for Canada but in Herdman I trust.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Corazon

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

18 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Like many on here, I do fear having to use Henry in Qatar. 

As long as he gets his 2nd yellow card at 90 + 4 we're good right?

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Corazon said:

With all that being said, it is his club form in 2023 that has really disappointed or been non-existent.

To be fair to Henry, everybody's club form in 2023 has been non-existent, but that could change once 2023 starts to exist.

[PegCityCam]

Becomes their first active WC player ever! Also bringing in at least 180K 🤑

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by PegCityCam

[TGAA_Star]

3 hours ago, PegCityCam said:

Becomes their first active WC player ever! Also bringing in at least 180K 🤑

 

Yeah I can't see his club letting him go anywhere

[VinceA]

Contract option picked up.

He could still be flipped I guess but who knows.

[Kadenge]

4 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Contract option picked up.

He could still be flipped I guess but who knows.

Really hope a deal is made for  Derek to either stay at Panetolikos where he has started every game in the past 2 seasons, sold to a better Greek  club or to one in a higher league. I can't imagine he would be happy to return to Vancouver. 

[InglewoodJack]

Yeah, wouldn’t this just mean that Vancouver wants to keep him on their books for when he ultimately gets sold? A 24 year old starting for a team in Europe doesn’t seem like the type of player who is ready to move back to MLS.

[SthMelbRed]

He was frozen out by MDS, so maybe he'd be willing to give it another try now that there's new management. I'm sure there are ongoing discussions.

 

[footballfreak]

7 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah, wouldn’t this just mean that Vancouver wants to keep him on their books for when he ultimately gets sold? A 24 year old starting for a team in Europe doesn’t seem like the type of player who is ready to move back to MLS.

I’m sorry, but the euro fetishization on here needs to stop.

He’s been playing in Greece not France or Belgium. His club averaged 1,330 fans per game last year and has a squad value of €10.9M - meaning it would probably top the USL Championship, but would be comfortably the worst team in MLS. Only 5 clubs in the Greek Super League are at or above MLS quality, and only Olympiacos spends above MLS levels.

If he wants to go back to Greece so be it, but MLS is a step up in quality week to week. If Cornelius wants to get better as a player, managing to stick in MLS would be a very good step.

The reality is, unless you’re making a move to the top 7-10 European leagues, or a club playing regularly in the Champions/Europa League, it’s probably a lateral move or a step down. Long gone are the days where being sold to Norway is seen as a positive career move for MLS kids.

Edited November 15, 2022 by footballfreak

[Unnamed Trialist]

37 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

I’m sorry, but the euro fetishization on here needs to stop.

He’s been playing in Greece not France or Belgium. His club averaged 1,330 fans per game last year and has a squad value of €10.9M - meaning it would probably top the USL Championship, but would be comfortably the worst team in MLS. Only 5 clubs in the Greek Super League are at or above MLS quality, and only Olympiacos spends above MLS levels.

If he wants to go back to Greece so be it, but MLS is a step up in quality week to week. If Cornelius wants to get better as a player, managing to stick in MLS would be a very good step.

The reality is, unless you’re making a move to the top 7-10 European leagues, or a club playing regularly in the Champions/Europa League, it’s probably a lateral move or a step down. Long gone are the days where being sold to Norway is seen as a positive career move for MLS kids.

How many MLS teams would be comfortably mid table in Greece?

Maybe the same ones who made the playoffs.

3-4 could challenge for the league.

This business of looking at Transfermarkt is kids stuff. They just played Panathinaikos to a minimal late loss. 

I'd take any of our MLS guys being paid criminally (it's your definition, since why does such a good league pay the youth so badly) in Norway at 100 k a year. 

[BearcatSA]

Getting a loan to a Greek club and playing as a regular starter in front of 1,330 supporters got him to Qatar.

Now, no one really knows what the Caps have in store for hlm and maybe he gets moved to another MLS team as part of a trade as a possibility.  I just don't see him back in Vancouver longer term.

[footballfreak]

28 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Getting a loan to a Greek club and playing as a regular starter in front of 1,330 supporters got him to Qatar.

Now, no one really knows what the Caps have in store for hlm and maybe he gets moved to another MLS team as part of a trade as a possibility.  I just don't see him back in Vancouver longer term.

When he made the move, it was because he wasn’t performing well enough for a bad/mediocre MLS team to stay in the league. He needed the move to get playing time at a lower level. Is he good enough for MLS now? Maybe, maybe not. He certainly hasn’t supplanted an MLS centreback for a starting Canada role. 

I want him to stick here in Vancouver next here. He’s grown as a player and I think he can contribute moving forward. But it’s not as though he’s a lock talent-wise to start, even with our depleted defence corps.

[footballfreak]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

How many MLS teams would be comfortably mid table in Greece?

Maybe the same ones who made the playoffs.

3-4 could challenge for the league.

This business of looking at Transfermarkt is kids stuff. They just played Panathinaikos to a minimal late loss. 

I'd take any of our MLS guys being paid criminally (it's your definition, since why does such a good league pay the youth so badly) in Norway at 100 k a year. 

All but the very worst teams in MLS would comfortably finish in the top half of the Greek League. 4-5 would challenge for the title. None would be relegated.

—

MLS pays $84K USD minimum wage to first team players (top 24) - a number which is set to rise steadily to $126K by 2027.

https://salarysport.com/football/eliteserien/highest-paid

These are the top 100 salaries in the Eliteserien. The 100th highest paid player is earning £78K or ~$92KUSD. So the very worst MLS first team players are being paid ~8K less than a starter in Norway.

Derek Cornelius had a guaranteed salary of $112K last season.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, footballfreak said:

All but the very worst teams in MLS would comfortably finish in the top half of the Greek League. 4-5 would challenge for the title. None would be relegated.

—

MLS pays $84K USD minimum wage to first team players (top 24) - a number which is set to rise steadily to $126K by 2027.

https://salarysport.com/football/eliteserien/highest-paid

These are the top 100 salaries in the Eliteserien. The 100th highest paid player is earning £78K or ~$92KUSD. So the very worst MLS first team players are being paid ~8K less than a starter in Norway.

Derek Cornelius had a guaranteed salary of $112K last season.

So despite relying on Transfermarkt or derivatives for your information, you're admitting that a far worse league, in your opinion, is paying the core of its journeymen pretty well the same as MLS.

I prefer relying on having watched Greek football teams, or Norwegian, and having watched MLS. I'd much rather see Cornelius in Greece, Adekugbe in Turkey. Even taking a guy who went to 2nd tier Belgium on his way up from MLS, which in principle I don't like, is mitigated by the core quality of European football.

I even go to see lower tier semi pro teams in the Spanish cup vs much higher levels, and the surprises, the general competitive quality, are due to the core quality.

By your parameters, surely, transfer fee bla bla bla plus stadium size plus average salary data proves Liam Fraser would be better off in CPL.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist