Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

There's a dark, dark side to my character and it gleefully wishes for Marsch to get the job just so you can see how unsuitable he is for this program. But then Canadian soccer would suffer another setback and we don't need that. So, I'll be quite happy if they don't hire him and we'll never know whether I'm right or wrong about Marsch.

And I think, honestly, if it is actually that deeply personally for you, it explains the seemingly willful ignorance or misunderstanding of the changes in football that have taken place over, not only the last 12 years, but also almost the last 40.  To have that deep a conviction, when you haven't paid attention to the actual football for at least 11 years is really wild to me. 

So again, watch his games or watch him explain what works or watch other people explain what doesn't. 

Or don't. We don't get anything out of this. But don't expect people to put any stock in an opinion that is based on an understanding that you have said is so far out of date. 

 

And I will add, it's kind of fun to be right, but it's way more fun for your team to do well.  So I would happily not get Jesse Marsch and love for us to do amazingly well with another coach.  Never has it crossed my mind, that we do badly, so I could be right, or weirdly that someone I don't know on the internet could be wrong.

Cheers. Learned some things. 

Edited April 26 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Joe MacCarthy]

6 hours ago, MtlMario said:

With no qualifying for W/C's for about 4 more years, knowledge of our region isn't really a big concern for me at this time though.

That's a good point but also I see this being the last time we pick a foreign manager for awhile.  It's highly unlikely nor should we get into a salary war for a coach>500k.  Realistically we can't compete nor should we.

We have to get to the point where we have enough quality homegrown coaches to do the job, not necessarily because they are Canadian but because we are able to do so.

Biello has international experience at the highest NT level, maybe it's time to get some others there as well.  Even if they are guest coaches or observers or advisors to the assistants get a couple of these CPL or U20 NT guys to the WC.  Hell, it's at home, it can't be rocket surgery.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, there is no guarantee for the WC after the upcoming one, we need to start building braintrust at the highest level right now.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I think the experience that we have to worry about is what Herdman had learned with the women, man management in tournament play over a short period. 

Some criticize his tactics but isn't that really done by committee with the HC being the final arbiter.  And wasn't the Spanish guy in charge of X and Os (dunno, just asking)

[GasPed]

5 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

There are what is called "rest phases" where you shape your self to get the ball at the feet of an opposition player that you have determined will less hurt you and wait to pounce on his next pass.  You also stay compact, so you aren't running far for 90 minutes.  If that means you don't high press sometimes, so be it. There are three areas where Marsch specifically has talked about engaging the press, depend on the opposition and the moment. Only one of them is high.... 

...If you tell those players that, not only will they get  minutes but also they are playing in a system designed to get them international goals, I think you have a lot that will work hard to know the system and be ready for their chance...

...Overall, the principles are not that complicated and players aren't going to forget them when they go back to their clubs.  They mostly play at modern clubs where they will maintain fitness.  

I agree with much of what you wrote, but at the same time I think you've also touched on some of the "deficiencies" of gegenpressing - and whether those would cause real problems for the CMNT (or not) is of course the question.  I.e.

1. It does depend on fitness.  No, it's not all-out 90 minute pressure but when their left-back bobbles the ball at 70' your RW and number 10 have to be just as ready and willing to jump on him as they were at 10'.  Gegenpressing loses its effectiveness as the gegenpressers become less willing/able to do it.  (As Rangnick found out quickly with CR7 😉)
2. The principles are relatively easy to learn, but in practice, the coordination/positioning of the gegenpressing is both critical and not so easy.  If your LCM loses the ball, and the LW thinks he's supposed to stay high and wait for a counter rather than jumping in to double-team the possessor, it could be a problem.  That kind of real-time misunderstanding can literally occur dozens of times in a game and lead to big issues.  It's why the standard "lose possession, drop back" strategy is the tried and true approach for many teams - especially ones (like national teams) that haven't spent much time together.  I would also add that often the teams who are good at gegenpressing have an on-field quarterback (e.g. Thomas Muller in Hansi Flick's Bayern) who direct the gegenpress (e.g. the static periods, the traps, the "when to exceed the 6 seconds" vs when to drop back, etc.)  I'm not sure we have that kind of quarterback in our roster.  

But I do agree that on paper, if any national team has the personnel to do this kind of tactic, it's probably us.  And if you do it right, it can be huge gamechanger - especially for athletic teams who are built for attack rather than methodical build-up. 

[Ivan]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

Both those guys probably have higher ambitions than that.

I was thinking they could coach the youth teams as well as their club teams.

[nolando]

11 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I was thinking they could coach the youth teams as well as their club teams.

Its not a bad idea at all.

[spitfire]

6 hours ago, Ed_S said:

Tommy Wheeldon Jr was part of one our youth team setups when he was still with Foothills. Can't recall which off the top of my head.  So I would agree with you.

He was Rob Gales assistant coach with the U20s … in Liams cycle 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 hours ago, GasPed said:

I agree with much of what you wrote, but at the same time I think you've also touched on some of the "deficiencies" of gegenpressing - and whether those would cause real problems for the CMNT (or not) is of course the question.  I.e.

1. It does depend on fitness.  No, it's not all-out 90 minute pressure but when their left-back bobbles the ball at 70' your RW and number 10 have to be just as ready and willing to jump on him as they were at 10'.  Gegenpressing loses its effectiveness as the gegenpressers become less willing/able to do it.  (As Rangnick found out quickly with CR7 😉)
2. The principles are relatively easy to learn, but in practice, the coordination/positioning of the gegenpressing is both critical and not so easy.  If your LCM loses the ball, and the LW thinks he's supposed to stay high and wait for a counter rather than jumping in to double-team the possessor, it could be a problem.  That kind of real-time misunderstanding can literally occur dozens of times in a game and lead to big issues.  It's why the standard "lose possession, drop back" strategy is the tried and true approach for many teams - especially ones (like national teams) that haven't spent much time together.  I would also add that often the teams who are good at gegenpressing have an on-field quarterback (e.g. Thomas Muller in Hansi Flick's Bayern) who direct the gegenpress (e.g. the static periods, the traps, the "when to exceed the 6 seconds" vs when to drop back, etc.)  I'm not sure we have that kind of quarterback in our roster.  

But I do agree that on paper, if any national team has the personnel to do this kind of tactic, it's probably us.  And if you do it right, it can be huge gamechanger - especially for athletic teams who are built for attack rather than methodical build-up. 

I think if we run Eustaquio up higher he can be the "quarterback," he is smart and experienced enough to pick up all of it.  And has been given the armband, temporarily at least. 

I agree it (and all systems) has its imperfections and requires a buy in by the players; but for where we are,  Marsch and it are things we can get and do. to make us better. 

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[MtlMario]

16 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

That's a good point but also I see this being the last time we pick a foreign manager for awhile.  It's highly unlikely nor should we get into a salary war for a coach>500k.  Realistically we can't compete nor should we.

We have to get to the point where we have enough quality homegrown coaches to do the job, not necessarily because they are Canadian but because we are able to do so.

Biello has international experience at the highest NT level, maybe it's time to get some others there as well.  Even if they are guest coaches or observers or advisors to the assistants get a couple of these CPL or U20 NT guys to the WC.  Hell, it's at home, it can't be rocket surgery.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, there is no guarantee for the WC after the upcoming one, we need to start building braintrust at the highest level right now.

With 7 (I think) spots available in our region I think WC qualification should be almost a sure thing going forward (or we are in big trouble 😊). Also as I mentioned in a earlier post, after this coach we should have a Cdn coach.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

With 7 (I think) spots available in our region I think WC qualification should be almost a sure thing going forward (or we are in big trouble 😊). Also as I mentioned in a earlier post, after this coach we should have a Cdn coach.

I think it's on the Cdn coaching candidates to step up then and improve their resumes.  If Smyrniotis and Wheeldon are still only managing in the CPL, I don't care what additional trophies they've won in the next two years, they aren't viable candidates.  If they take on one of the youth NTs in addition to their CPL duties (as I've seen people mention), then that would improve their situation (assuming they're having success).

[BearcatSA]

Best candidate, regardless of nationality,for me.

If he is a Canadian, great.  Regardless of nationality and/or pedigree, the team undership his leadership needs to show growth and results.  The 2025 Gold Cup (after the CNL finals) is the final important assessment benchmark/barometer because an unsettled and underachieving scenario might need to be changed (that's why I wondered about contract terms and severance with the relatively bigger names mentioned as candidates).

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[toontownman]

8 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

Another name that makes Marsch seem like a savior in comparison.

On the upside this would be the one time having a bench full of Canadians was acceptable.

[gator]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:33 AM, Watchmen said:

I think it's on the Cdn coaching candidates to step up then and improve their resumes.  If Smyrniotis and Wheeldon are still only managing in the CPL, I don't care what additional trophies they've won in the next two years, they aren't viable candidates.  If they take on one of the youth NTs in addition to their CPL duties (as I've seen people mention), then that would improve their situation (assuming they're having success).

I spoke with Bobby after the Forge match yesterday and it didn't even cross my mind to ask him if he has been contacted or is in consideration for the MNT job, of course I am sure he would give the "no comment" answer! He was however very talkative about Forge and how things are playing out so far!

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Was looking at West Ham manager odds today for fun and masocism.

The bookies will take bets on some people Canada has been linked with..

 

Marsch (33-1)

Potter

Lampard (only 28-1 for some reason)

Mourinho

Solskjaer 

 

Moral of the story the press in England get bored writing about actual football.

 

 

-Also you can get 14-1 for us to win our Copa America group. 

Edited April 28 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[gigi riva]

Gerg Vanney wow thats interesting 

[One American]

I think we probably more detaail on the Solksjaer interest. Like is it more than "I'll swing by for an interview." 

[One American]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:04 PM, Joe MacCarthy said:

We have to get to the point where we have enough quality homegrown coaches to do the job, not necessarily because they are Canadian but because we are able to do so.

the US program has three decades of going to the WC regularly. How many coaches have we had sufficient for international level? 

[toontownman]

 

Positive news, not a huge update but positive none the less. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, One American said:

the US program has three decades of going to the WC regularly. How many coaches have we had sufficient for international level? 

You might think that they'd hone their skills in MLS, and as the league improves, that would be enough to give the US a pool of managers.

But it may not be a logical line of thinking. Of the top 10 managers ever in EPL, how many were English? Maybe none. Scots don't count because we are talking about nationality. 

The Mexicans have arguably done worse when at the WC, and have hosted twice, they have not produced great managers either (except in Liga MX terms). 

Canada's only reason to hire a Canadian, as we stand with Canadian coaches, is because we can afford them. Not because we have a single one at the level of our player pool.

[Bison44]

7 hours ago, gigi riva said:

Gerg Vanney wow thats interesting 

Bite your tongue sir!!   Why not go see how Yallop is doing in USL-C if we are just talking crazy???   

 

[narduch]

7 hours ago, One American said:

the US program has three decades of going to the WC regularly. How many coaches have we had sufficient for international level? 

Not sure. But the current one isn't 

[scullion44]

Not sure if been mentioned in this thread but Marsch on the verge of being named new Korea manager

[cornerkick]

Interesting if Marsch takes the Korea job.  What would be the motivation to choose them over Canada, apart from higher pay?  

Korea has the 2026 World Cup to play for, and then the next Asian cup is 2027.  Doesn’t look like they have much on deck next two years apart from qualifiers.  Canada has COPA, Gold Cup, and is a WC host nation.  The latter sure sounds like a better opportunity if you are a manager with aspirations.