Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[Unnamed Trialist]

33 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Listening to yesterday's Footy Prime podcast today (and boy, parts of that were a struggle) they at least clarified their stance from the other day about the men's NT spot. Admitted that there's not really a candidate out there right now that's actually really ready to take over and that it's about working to ensure that in the future there are such candidates. Which, I think we can all agree is a reasonable stance to take and what we would hope for in the future.

That show just reminds me what a lazy bunch of guys our retired NT veterans are.

Not one has gone out and gotten properly accredited as a coach, then worked his way up to a level even close to what he played at. Not one. I'm talking about the guys who have had time, guys 45-50 or more. 

It is even odder considering you'd make more money as a youth coach at Sunderland, say, than owning a donut shop and doing Footy Prime as the main outlet for your zeal for the game.

Edited May 3 by Unnamed Trialist

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

That show just reminds me what a lazy bunch of guys our retired NT veterans are.

Not one has gone out and gotten properly accredited as a coach, then worked his way up to a level even close to what he played at. Not one. I'm talking about the guys who have had time, guys 45-50 or more. 

It is even odder considering you'd make more money as a youth coach at Sunderland, say, than owning a donut shop and doing Footy Prime as the main outlet for your zeal for the game.

I think Dasovic actually did take major steps down the path of being a head coach, but after not getting the permanent position at TFC sort of chose family (ie settling on the west coast) and managing reserve sides over pursuing it further.

Frank Yallop has also carved out a decent career as a manager in MLS (but I would not want him as MNT manager).

[SthMelbRed]

Contrast Canada's coaching situation with Australia's. Here, so many former Socceroos from the NSL era went on to become managers in the NSL and, now, A-League. Ange Postecoglou didn't make any serious mark as an international player, but won two national titles with South Melbourne Hellas. He then took up coaching and won another national title before the demise of the NSL. He then put in a few years of slogging as a national youth coach. His career was widely considered dead before he got the Brisbane Roar job. Within a year, he'd turned them into the best A-League side in the league's now 20-year history, then Victory, then Australia and winning the Asian Cup, before starting his ascent in the club game again in Japan.

Granted, we never had an NSL to blood our version of Postecoglous, Arnolds, Vidmars, Aloisis, or Kosminas. We also don't have NPL and State League clubs paying coaches decent wages in what are effectively semi-professional or amateur competitions. But we need to start seeing it, now, with CPL and L1C.

 

[gigi riva]

12 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Mic drop. 

Even if we lose, who cares, the rest of the world thinks we're going to lose anyway.  I'd rather lose now and learn something than be embarrassed when it really counts.

well said Joe

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

6 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I think Dasovic actually did take major steps down the path of being a head coach, but after not getting the permanent position at TFC sort of chose family (ie settling on the west coast) and managing reserve sides over pursuing it further.

Frank Yallop has also carved out a decent career as a manager in MLS (but I would not want him as MNT manager).

Colin Miller probably rates a mention as well as having given it a go before settling for a more stable youth soccer gig in Abbotsford and Paul Peschisolido managed Burton Albion in England at EFL level.

[MtlMario]

Anyone know what Pescisolido doing now? I remember him saying once that he was interested in Canada's coaching job.

[narduch]

32 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Anyone know what Pescisolido doing now? I remember him saying once that he was interested in Canada's coaching job.

He's an agent for managers

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Contrast Canada's coaching situation with Australia's. Here, so many former Socceroos from the NSL era went on to become managers in the NSL and, now, A-League. Ange Postecoglou didn't make any serious mark as an international player, but won two national titles with South Melbourne Hellas. He then took up coaching and won another national title before the demise of the NSL. He then put in a few years of slogging as a national youth coach. His career was widely considered dead before he got the Brisbane Roar job. Within a year, he'd turned them into the best A-League side in the league's now 20-year history, then Victory, then Australia and winning the Asian Cup, before starting his ascent in the club game again in Japan.

Granted, we never had an NSL to blood our version of Postecoglous, Arnolds, Vidmars, Aloisis, or Kosminas. We also don't have NPL and State League clubs paying coaches decent wages in what are effectively semi-professional or amateur competitions. But we need to start seeing it, now, with CPL and L1C.

 

Where did the money come from to pay coaches these decent wages?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

He's an agent for managers

And Mr Lady Brady.

[nolando]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

He's an agent for managers

Would have made him a good choice to have been a part of the committee, imo, ahead of some of those with very narrow and limited experiences.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Where did the money come from to pay coaches these decent wages?

In many instances probably the same place it comes from to have big name coaches in Canada on rumoured salaries like $100k at certain youth clubs. Inflated youth soccer registration fees. Have heard that being able to have slot machines in ethnic social club bars also finances some clubs there and it also helps that many of them have their own small stadiums alongside the aforementioned social clubs and are still able to draw a bit of a crowd of paying spectators unlike many/most League 1 clubs.

Worth noting that we also did have an NSL in the Quebec-Windsor corridor courtesy of the same post-WWII migration patterns from soccer loving parts of Europe that in the 1970s and into the early 80s was arguably more or less on par with what Australia had with their NSL through the 80s and 90s. That's where the original NASL got a significant portion of its domestic player content from with players like Bob Iarusci and the dude in my avatar.

Trying to compete for the limelight with the original NASL and later the CSL and its TSN contract was an issue its Australian counterpart didn't have to contend with so it fizzled out rather than forming the starting point of what came next down under A League style and what's about to start up there in the shape of their new national second tier. 

[Bigandy]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Where did the money come from to pay coaches these decent wages?

I think we have some coaches on some decent wages. 

Some league 1 coaches supplement their uni jobs with coaching league 1. A guy like tommy wheeldon Jr was making fantastic money at foothills. 

Lots of private academies make decent money. 

I think its not a matter of a lack of money but do we want to use the lower leagues to give young coaches a chance to develop or use local guys or do we want to splash massive salaries at foreign coaches. Anything below CPL should be local coaches and we need a way to develop them better. Paying them more won't make them better coaches. 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think we have some coaches on some decent wages. 

Some league 1 coaches supplement their uni jobs with coaching league 1. A guy like tommy wheeldon Jr was making fantastic money at foothills. 

Lots of private academies make decent money. 

I think its not a matter of a lack of money but do we want to use the lower leagues to give young coaches a chance to develop or use local guys or do we want to splash massive salaries at foreign coaches. Anything below CPL should be local coaches and we need a way to develop them better. Paying them more won't make them better coaches. 

Foothills is probably a bit of a unicorn, or at the very least they are leading the pack on this stuff, certainly in Alberta and arguably nationally as well. 

Good point though. I do think a lot of youth clubs have significant money flowing in that would surprise most people. The next step is for those youth clubs to be aligned with League 1 clubs, if not have League 1 clubs of their own. Calgary Blizzards are a prime example of this. I think fully intergrated clubs from youth to senior has to be the model, ideally. The youth side of the game funding the senior side, and the senior team giving back to the youth teams.

Hopefully this is enough to fill in the gaps while the game-day gates slowly catch up.

[El Diego]

With this talk of homegrown coaches it is interesting that the best product of the Canadian coaching landscape is a Frenchman, Wilfried Nancy. What a great story he is for Canadian soccer -- played university ball, coached amateur level in Quebec, coached their provincial team, part of the Impact academy, made it to MLS with Impact then Crew, now an MLS champion and possible CCL champion. If there was one guy who was 'perfect' for the CanMNT job, it's him.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

7 minutes ago, El Diego said:

With this talk of homegrown coaches it is interesting that the best product of the Canadian coaching landscape is a Frenchman, Wilfried Nancy. What a great story he is for Canadian soccer -- played university ball, coached amateur level in Quebec, coached their provincial team, part of the Impact academy, made it to MLS with Impact then Crew, now an MLS champion and possible CCL champion. If there was one guy who was 'perfect' for the CanMNT job, it's him.

I would agree he is up there with the best we have been linked with.  I guess with a lot of coaches on the rise (and in jobs), you try to be honest and ask: why would they come?

[Bigandy]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Foothills is probably a bit of a unicorn, or at the very least they are leading the pack on this stuff, certainly in Alberta and arguably nationally as well. 

Good point though. I do think a lot of youth clubs have significant money flowing in that would surprise most people. The next step is for those youth clubs to be aligned with League 1 clubs, if not have League 1 clubs of their own. Calgary Blizzards are a prime example of this. I think fully intergrated clubs from youth to senior has to be the model, ideally. The youth side of the game funding the senior side, and the senior team giving back to the youth teams.

Hopefully this is enough to fill in the gaps while the game-day gates slowly catch up.

I agree and tommy grew foothills quite a bit. The fees youth players pay is pretty high there. But my understanding is most TD's for the bigger clubs make some decent coin. Many of these clubs don't have higher level teams so following your blizzards example, I don't think a good wage is out of the question. Good obviously being relative for a semi pro league. 

[Watchmen]

35 minutes ago, El Diego said:

With this talk of homegrown coaches it is interesting that the best product of the Canadian coaching landscape is a Frenchman, Wilfried Nancy. What a great story he is for Canadian soccer -- played university ball, coached amateur level in Quebec, coached their provincial team, part of the Impact academy, made it to MLS with Impact then Crew, now an MLS champion and possible CCL champion. If there was one guy who was 'perfect' for the CanMNT job, it's him.

After he won the MLA Cup last year, I was hoping for him. But the CSA was in disarray and he signed an extension at Columbus, so figure that's out the window (for now).

[narduch]

46 minutes ago, El Diego said:

With this talk of homegrown coaches it is interesting that the best product of the Canadian coaching landscape is a Frenchman, Wilfried Nancy. What a great story he is for Canadian soccer -- played university ball, coached amateur level in Quebec, coached their provincial team, part of the Impact academy, made it to MLS with Impact then Crew, now an MLS champion and possible CCL champion. If there was one guy who was 'perfect' for the CanMNT job, it's him.

He also has Canadian citizenship by the way.

Its too bad because the timing just doesn't seem to be right. Maybe he is our manager in 2027?

Nancy's next step should be trying to make it in Europe.

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I agree and tommy grew foothills quite a bit. The fees youth players pay is pretty high there. But my understanding is most TD's for the bigger clubs make some decent coin. Many of these clubs don't have higher level teams so following your blizzards example, I don't think a good wage is out of the question. Good obviously being relative for a semi pro league. 

The good thing is that a lof of these youth clubs do have senior sides. I don't know the Edmonton landscape, but when it comes to Calgary you see these youth clubs now with senior teams trying to climb up the CUSA ladder. That's not new, but I think that trend will (and probably should) continue.

I don't know what the official process of getting into League 1 Alberta is, but I imagine being in the Alberta Major Soccer League helps.

And to get there I am pretty sure you need to promote out of CUSA Premier and then challenge/apply to take the step up.

And to get to CUSA Premier you must promote from CUSA div 1.

....and to get there you must promote from CUSA div 2, and so on....

I was looking at the alignment this morning and saw that Calgary West Soccer club are now in Div 1. Other youth clubs with senior team entries are at various levels in the pyramid. All of which are working to at least get to Premier, then maybe onto AMSL and beyond. 

And before I digress (sorry for making this an Alberta soccer discussion), one last point:

I am sure exceptions can and would be made for any club demonstrating they can handle League 1 Alberta from an infrastructure standpoint.

Calgary Rangers for example now have a team in CUSA Premier (their top side was in Div 2 when I played CUSA open). They have a very large presence in the West part of the city. They have big plans to build a joint indoor-outdoor facility in partnership with Weber academy, in Springbank, the likes of which sounds like it will rival the Foothills Macron Performance Centre on the other side of the city. They strike me as exactly the type of club that may bypass AMSL on their way to League 1 Alberta, as they'll have the facilities and the youth team foundation to make a strong application.

Edited May 3 by Obinna

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, narduch said:

He also has Canadian citizenship by the way.

Its too bad because the timing just doesn't seem to be right. Maybe he is our manager in 2027?

Nancy's next step should be trying to make it in Europe.

Same thing crossed my mind: Maybe not this cycle but why not in the future? Maybe he goes to France (for example) and has some success, then eventually comes back "home" to coach Canada....

Begs the question though....if he's not leaving the Crew for Canada, he's probably not leaving a Ligue 1 club for Canada....unless he flames out.....in which case maybe we aren't even talking about him in these glowing terms. 

[Sal333]

17 hours ago, Obinna said:

Same thing crossed my mind: Maybe not this cycle but why not in the future? Maybe he goes to France (for example) and has some success, then eventually comes back "home" to coach Canada....

Begs the question though....if he's not leaving the Crew for Canada, he's probably not leaving a Ligue 1 club for Canada....unless he flames out.....in which case maybe we aren't even talking about him in these glowing terms. 

Nancy is not going to flame out. If he goes to Europe, he's gone for good. Our only window is between MLS and Europe. This man has everything to be an outstanding manager. He understands the game at a level that someone like say this board's favorite, Marsch, can only dream about. He also has the human touch. He brings out the best in his players - very similar to Herdman. In Montreal and Columbus the players adore him. Also, watch him during a game. He's calm and alert. Before Nancy we had Thierry Henry. I disliked him as a manager. He looked like a lunatic screaming and berating his players. With a stronger team than Nancy's, Henry accomplished nothing in Montreal. His winning % was a tad north of 30%. Nancy is a tad south of 50% for his whole tenure in the MLS.

We gotta hope that after the 2026 World Cup, Nancy believes his best avenue to Europe is a stint in international soccer with Canada. But I doubt that will happen. If he leaves Columbus, he's going for big money in Europe.

Edited May 4 by Sal333

[nolando]

Remind me, has he even been officially in the running or is this all just daydreaming?

[Watchmen]

7 minutes ago, nolando said:

Remind me, has he even been officially in the running or is this all just daydreaming?

Speculation only.

It just ties back in to the Canada job being really appealing on a short-term basis - home WC + Copa in a 2 year span.  It's a quality short term appointment for someone.

Edited May 4 by Watchmen

[Dominic94]

So Peter Arguso won the election.

 

he wants a men’s td, which will delay the  coaching selection but I believe a win for Crooks was a win for Peter M which is what people had feared.

Change is definitely on its way.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

So Peter Arguso won the election.

 

he wants a men’s td, which will delay the  coaching selection but I believe a win for Crooks was a win for Peter M which is what people had feared.

Change is definitely on its way.

I guess men's TD means technical director but who is Peter M?