Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[El Diego]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Marsch ain't it for me man. 

He's been very fortunate to get his opportunities, and one thing I know in life is some people just need to be given one to propel their careers - whether they are good or not (deserve it). So when it's so limited for Canadian's in this industry, why does it have to be given to an American?

Just look at his history....Jesse inherited a good RedBulls team that went to the finals the previous season and the fans were fuming to Ali Curtis about why they fired Petke.

He was then fortunate that Ragnick took over all of Red Bull, and developed a relationship with Marsch and Armas. He would later join his coaching staff as an assistant at Leipzig. 

 He then got moved to Salzburg to coach perennial league powerhouse RB (who have won the last 10 seasons), and unsurprisingly won the league. 

Ragnick then gave him his blessing to take over the head coach position of his 2nd place finished team in the German Bundesliga the previous season. In which he got sacked at the beginning of December. (Lasted half a season)

And then somehow, somehowww he was given the Leeds job in which he did no better than his predecessor but ultimately the team survived the drop. The next year he was exposed and sacked around the same time he was hired.

Now he's being interviewed to coach a team that has some of the best talent in Concacaf....F off.

I'll take a Canadian, or anything other than American. We are already considered as there little brothers, I don't want our team to feel "adopted" or "helped" by our American neighbours like shit always is...but it's only a one way street. 

TRUE PATRIOT LOVE!

While I don't care too much about the anti-American view, I totally agree with you regarding Marsch's "accomplishments". Anyone could have won two Austrian Bundesligas with Salzburg, and his time at Leipzig was an absolute disaster.

[frmr]

24 minutes ago, El Diego said:

While I don't care too much about the anti-American view, I totally agree with you regarding Marsch's "accomplishments". Anyone could have won two Austrian Bundesligas with Salzburg, and his time at Leipzig was an absolute disaster.

Who are going to be the candidates who have done more than that though? I think we need to be realistic about the level of manager that we're going to be attracting. I would be over the moon if we somehow land someone who is head and shoulders above someone like Marsch but I think he's going to be just about the level that we're able to realistically attract.

[El Diego]

12 minutes ago, frmr said:

Who are going to be the candidates who have done more than that though? I think we need to be realistic about the level of manager that we're going to be attracting. I would be over the moon if we somehow land someone who is head and shoulders above someone like Marsch but I think he's going to be just about the level that we're able to realistically attract.

I'll gladly take a mystery box over Marsch

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, One American said:

Marsch would have been a bad fit for the current USMNT, but might be a good fit for Canada. 

He's a bad fit for the USMNT because you don't want to lose.  Marsch must be one of the most overrated coaches in the last decade.

[Sal333]

10 hours ago, Shway said:

Marsch ain't it for me man. 

He's been very fortunate to get his opportunities, and one thing I know in life is some people just need to be given one to propel their careers - whether they are good or not (deserve it). So when it's so limited for Canadian's in this industry, why does it have to be given to an American?

Just look at his history....Jesse inherited a good RedBulls team that went to the finals the previous season and the fans were fuming to Ali Curtis about why they fired Petke.

He was then fortunate that Ragnick took over all of Red Bull, and developed a relationship with Marsch and Armas. He would later join his coaching staff as an assistant at Leipzig. 

 He then got moved to Salzburg to coach perennial league powerhouse RB (who have won the last 10 seasons), and unsurprisingly won the league. 

Ragnick then gave him his blessing to take over the head coach position of his 2nd place finished team in the German Bundesliga the previous season. In which he got sacked at the beginning of December. (Lasted half a season)

And then somehow, somehowww he was given the Leeds job in which he did no better than his predecessor but ultimately the team survived the drop. The next year he was exposed and sacked around the same time he was hired.

Now he's being interviewed to coach a team that has some of the best talent in Concacaf....F off.

I'll take a Canadian, or anything other than American. We are already considered as there little brothers, I don't want our team to feel "adopted" or "helped" by our American neighbours like shit always is...but it's only a one way street. 

TRUE PATRIOT LOVE!

I agree with most of your post. Where we disagree is the American thing. I couldn't care less about the coach's nationality. Honestly, I'd keep Biello if it was a choice between the two and Biello is another former Impact coach I don't particularly like.

Edited April 23 by Sal333

[frmr]

To honest neither of you have provided any real reasons to support why you're so against Marsch, or why Biello—who has achieved objectively less as a manager—would be better. Other than what seems like some personal vendettas. Which to be honest, I don't think anyone here really cares about.

I'd be legitimately interested to hear what actual reasons you both think he would such an awful choice, other than the rhetoric and double standards that you've provided thus far.

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, frmr said:

To honest neither of you have provided any real reasons to support why you're so against Marsch, or why Biello—who has achieved objectively less as a manager—would be better. Other than what seems like some personal vendettas. Which to be honest, I don't think anyone here really cares about.

I'd be legitimately interested to hear what actual reasons you both think he would such an awful choice, other than the rhetoric and double standards that you've provided thus far.

Only concern with Marsch for me is- does he excite the players? Do our stars come into camp more excited and with more respect for Marsch than Biello or Herdman? Outside of Austria, he doesn’t have much European pedigree. Leipzig were 11th when he was fired and finished 4th that year. When he took over Leeds, they were 15th and they ended that season 17th. They were 15th again when he was sacked, before they got relegated. 

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Only concern with Marsch for me is- does he excite the players? Do our stars come into camp more excited and with more respect for Marsch than Biello or Herdman? Outside of Austria, he doesn’t have much European pedigree. Leipzig were 11th when he was fired and finished 4th that year. When he took over Leeds, they were 15th and they ended that season 17th. They were 15th again when he was sacked, before they got relegated. 

I'm not sure, but again, without knowing who the candidates are, I would be surprised if any of them will excite the players. I guarantee you Herdman didn't, I guarantee you Biello didn't. I just don't think we're at the level to attract the kind of manager than will excite Davies or David. And I don't really think that's the most important factor either. They need to respect him sure, but I'm not too concerned if it's an exciting prospect. I think the players would at least respect Marsch. He's managed in two of the top-five leagues in Europe (with limited success) which I would say is roughly the level that our player pool would warrant.

[narduch]

I don't mind Marsch. At least he has put in the work.

I would take him over Smyrniotis. 

But I would need to know who the other candidates are to know if we could do better.

I hope we make the hire asap. Let the new guy get Copa and next year's Gold Cup so we can judge if he's up to the task.

We can always cut bait before the World Cup if it isn't working 

Edited April 23 by narduch

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, frmr said:

I'm not sure, but again, without knowing who the candidates are, I would be surprised if any of them will excite the players. I guarantee you Herdman didn't, I guarantee you Biello didn't. I just don't think we're at the level to attract the kind of manager than will excite Davies or David. And I don't really think that's the most important factor either. They need to respect him sure, but I'm not too concerned if it's an exciting prospect. I think the players would at least respect Marsch. He's managed in two of the top-five leagues in Europe (with limited success) which I would say is roughly the level that our player pool would warrant.

This is similar to the discussion re: David’s next team and where we want him to go or not because we don’t really know what the actual options are or if there’s better out there.

For me, at least Herdman had his record with Canada to lean on (I do think he left about 6 months too late, but regardless) and Biello has familiarity with the players. I also think that players at the top levels- David, Davies and anyone trying to make it there doesn’t exactly rate small top league clubs like Leeds, and the one “European level” team he managed, Leipzig, they were much better after he left. 
 

As you say though, the pool of coaches that want to coach our team and who excite our stars is probably negligible if existing at all, so we take what we can get. That said, a concern with Marsch is he doesn’t work and doesn’t lead to results any better with those that Biello can deliver, we sack him, and all of a sudden, we need a new coach for 2026 and we’re still on the hook to pay for Marsch. Disaster scenario, but he doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that he can do much more than Biello can for us.

[Watchmen]

50 minutes ago, narduch said:

I hope we make the hire asap. Let the new guy get Copa and next year's Gold Cup so we can judge if he's up to the task.

We can always cut bait before the World Cup if it isn't working 

If Biello is still in charge, he should be judged on the Copa. But if it's a new hire, then I'm willing to give him a pass (to a certain extent) on the Copa given how little prep time he'll have had.  The Copa would be more about him figuring out what he has with this squad. Next year's Gold Cup would be the better time to judge the actual results.

[narduch]

I wonder of the Club World Cup is going to be problematic. 

Will guys that play in that skip the Gold Cup?

[El Diego]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

To honest neither of you have provided any real reasons to support why you're so against Marsch, or why Biello—who has achieved objectively less as a manager—would be better. Other than what seems like some personal vendettas. Which to be honest, I don't think anyone here really cares about.

I'd be legitimately interested to hear what actual reasons you both think he would such an awful choice, other than the rhetoric and double standards that you've provided thus far.

The reasons against Marsch were laid out by Shway -- his results are simply not that good. I have nothing against Marsch personally, he actually seems like a really interesting guy. I never said I would choose Biello over him, I'd rather someone else over both. For the record, I am unimpressed with basically every name that has been rumoured -- Biello, Marsch, Henry, and Lampard. I think all those guys are bad choices. Smyrniotis and Wheeldon would be interesting hires, but big gambles.

[toontownman]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

I wonder of the Club World Cup is going to be problematic. 

Will guys that play in that skip the Gold Cup?

Quite possible. Although I think that benefits the depth of our players pool and wouldn't be the end of the world. Infect it might benefit us and the players.

 Seems like the Gold Cup is fast becoming more of a chance to test different players for the best teams in concacaf. 

[Watchmen]

52 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Seems like the Gold Cup is fast becoming more of a chance to test different players for the best teams in concacaf. 

On alternate years, it was usually that already. Canada didn't do it because there were so few other games for the team they couldn't afford to miss the opportunity to have the A team play.

[Watchmen]

57 minutes ago, narduch said:

I wonder of the Club World Cup is going to be problematic. 

Will guys that play in that skip the Gold Cup?

Realistically, how many guys are going to be impacted by this? Davies, Buchanan, and Eustaquio are the only guys currently on teams qualified for it, and while the first two would seem to be locks (Davies because even the rumoured RM transfer would have him going and Buchanan because he just transferred), but Eustaquio seems far from a lock to still be at Porto. David's likely to be the only one who lands at a high enough profile club to qualify, and who knows who the final spot MLS spot will go to (as "hosts").

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Only concern with Marsch for me is- does he excite the players? Do our stars come into camp more excited and with more respect for Marsch than Biello or Herdman? Outside of Austria, he doesn’t have much European pedigree. Leipzig were 11th when he was fired and finished 4th that year. When he took over Leeds, they were 15th and they ended that season 17th. They were 15th again when he was sacked, before they got relegated. 

Yes?

[RS]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

who knows who the final spot MLS spot will go to (as "hosts").

I think we all know.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 hours ago, El Diego said:

The reasons against Marsch were laid out by Shway -- his results are simply not that good. I have nothing against Marsch personally, he actually seems like a really interesting guy. I never said I would choose Biello over him, I'd rather someone else over both. For the record, I am unimpressed with basically every name that has been rumoured -- Biello, Marsch, Henry, and Lampard. I think all those guys are bad choices. Smyrniotis and Wheeldon would be interesting hires, but big gambles.

I think that's is a very narrow view of results. And probably a bit unrealistic.

If someone offered us a (non American) MLS manager that went 74-31-54, including a Supporters Shield, I think most would bite their hand off. 

 

We can dismiss the Austrians results if we want, but he drew Napoli in the Champions League and picked  up 3 wins there and finished third in his group both years.  The teams that finished ahead of them were Bayern, Atlético Madrid one year ; Liverpool and Napoli the year before. 

 

We can agree he wasn't successful in 2 top 5 league stints.  But are we actually looking at managers that have been successful in those leagues?

No.  They 1) usually don't jump to international football 2) if they do, they don't come to nations Fifa-ranked in the 40s.

 

I guess I would ask whose results have been better to the extent that we are willing to reject someone who seems to want to come, plays a clearly defined style that suits us and has experience with excellent young professionals. 

 

Edited April 23 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bertuzzi44]

So dream hire Thomas Christiansen is definitely not an option?

[Obinna]

18 hours ago, Shway said:

Marsch ain't it for me man. 

He's been very fortunate to get his opportunities, and one thing I know in life is some people just need to be given one to propel their careers - whether they are good or not (deserve it). So when it's so limited for Canadian's in this industry, why does it have to be given to an American?

Just look at his history....Jesse inherited a good RedBulls team that went to the finals the previous season and the fans were fuming to Ali Curtis about why they fired Petke.

He was then fortunate that Ragnick took over all of Red Bull, and developed a relationship with Marsch and Armas. He would later join his coaching staff as an assistant at Leipzig. 

 He then got moved to Salzburg to coach perennial league powerhouse RB (who have won the last 10 seasons), and unsurprisingly won the league. 

Ragnick then gave him his blessing to take over the head coach position of his 2nd place finished team in the German Bundesliga the previous season. In which he got sacked at the beginning of December. (Lasted half a season)

And then somehow, somehowww he was given the Leeds job in which he did no better than his predecessor but ultimately the team survived the drop. The next year he was exposed and sacked around the same time he was hired.

Now he's being interviewed to coach a team that has some of the best talent in Concacaf....F off.

I'll take a Canadian, or anything other than American. We are already considered as there little brothers, I don't want our team to feel "adopted" or "helped" by our American neighbours like shit always is...but it's only a one way street. 

TRUE PATRIOT LOVE!

I guess Marsch was just gifted his resume and didn't deserve it? Got it. 

Look, I am not crazy for Marsch, but I do agree with the One Soccer Panel that we needn't disqualify an American because he is American. That'd be cutting our nose to spite our face. I know you (and others) want to get ultra nationalist here and hire a Canadian, or anything but American, but what's the difference between hiring an American versus a Mexican, or a Colombian, or an Argentine? To hyper focus on the passport is just pettiness over pragmatism, but maybe we should just hire @JAVIERF and call the game football and be done with it....better than Ted Lasso....Amirite? 

Sorry to pick on you here brother, I am sure you are not the only one who feels that way, and I do agree with a lot of your posts, but unfortunately I am choosing this to respond to the Anti-American sentiments in this topic. And insofar as soccer goes, don't get me wrong, I love having a go at the USMNT, because their fans (and sometimes there players) do tend to piss me off and get under my skin. Sure it was just yesterday I was laughing at Balogun for being stuck on 7 goals, so no love lost fas far as I am concerned. To be honest, nowadays I would rather cheer for Honduras than the Americans....

I want the best coach possible, passport be damned. Maybe that's Wheeldon or Bobby......or Marsch. 

The CSA will hire the best man for the job regardless of passport, so I shouldn't bother getting worked up about it any further. We don't influence the hiring process, luckily. 

[Watchmen]

22 minutes ago, RS said:

I think we all know.

I wasn't sure how long his contract runs for. 😜

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think that's is a very narrow view of results. And probably a bit unrealistic.

If someone offered us a (non American) MLS manager that went 74-31-54, including a Supporters Shield, I think most would bite their hand off. 

 

We can dismiss the Austrians results if we want, but he drew Napoli in the Champions League and picked  up 3 wins there and finished third in his group both years.  The teams that finished ahead of them were Bayern, Atlético Madrid one year ; Liverpool and Napoli the year before. 

 

We can agree he wasn't successful in 2 top 5 league stints.  But are we actually looking at managers that have been successful in those leagues?

No.  They 1) usually don't jump to international football 2) if they do, they don't come to nations Fifa-ranked in the 40s.

 

I guess I would ask whose results have been better to the extent that we are willing to reject someone who seems to want to come, plays a clearly defined style that suits us and has experience with excellent young professionals. 

 

To add, no manager we hire is going to be without belishes. Marsch has some good and some bad on his resume, like all realistic candidates, I am sure. 

Achievements and failures are just a part of it. Bob Bradley (for example) has been a successful national team coach with Egypt and the USA, but had big failures on the club side, in the EPL (just like Marsch) and with Toronto FC. Tata Martino was a good club manager but terrible on the national team side with Mexico. 

Obviously we want coaches with achievements and not failures, but consider me someone unconcerned that Marsch flamed out in the Bundesliga and the prem. 

[Obinna]

8 hours ago, Sal333 said:

I agree with most of your post. Where we disagree is the American thing. I couldn't care less about the coach's nationality. Honestly, I'd keep Biello if it was a choice between the two and Biello is another former Impact coach I don't particularly like.

This got my attention. Not because I think Marsch would be a failure necessarily, but because Biello has won back some of my support after getting us to Copa. Yes, he had the bone-headed subs in the Jamaica home leg, and yes I don't see us reaching our ceiling with Biello, but we probably have a high floor, given that he knows the players, the federation, and the region. 

With Marsch maybe we have a higher ceiling and a lower floor. He doesn't know the players, or the federation, and knows the region to a degree. He's coached at a higher level than Biello. All things being equal I would say with Marsch there is a little more risk and reward potential, but the stability of Biello wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, at least heading into Copa America. 

And thinking of the run up of games playing the likes of Netherlands, France, ARGENTINA.....it's hard for me to picture Wheeldon or Bobby at the helm, even though I like them as candidates for many reasons....

[Watchmen]

50 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This got my attention. Not because I think Marsch would be a failure necessarily, but because Biello has won back some of my support after getting us to Copa. Yes, he had the bone-headed subs in the Jamaica home leg, and yes I don't see us reaching our ceiling with Biello, but we probably have a high floor, given that he knows the players, the federation, and the region. 

With Marsch maybe we have a higher ceiling and a lower floor. He doesn't know the players, or the federation, and knows the region to a degree. He's coached at a higher level than Biello. All things being equal I would say with Marsch there is a little more risk and reward potential, but the stability of Biello wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, at least heading into Copa America. 

And thinking of the run up of games playing the likes of Netherlands, France, ARGENTINA.....it's hard for me to picture Wheeldon or Bobby at the helm, even though I like them as candidates for many reasons....

I think in someways, Marsch is actually a higher profile target than Canada could normally get: a manager who knows the region and has high profile managerial experience. I'm not really sure he was given enough time at Leipzig, and he was at least a bit unlucky at Leeds. And let's be clear: he was probably quickly dismissed from both positions at least in part because he was an American trying to manage in much more traditional football countries.

At the same time, Marsch is a bit stuck with his career. There's probably not enough interest in him from the "big 5" leagues, but he also probably doesn't want to drop too far either. But the chance to manage a guaranteed WC/Copa participant is probably appealing to him, even if the salary we could provide is below what he might normally want.

The part I'm not sure on is what he's like tactically. Because that was ultimately Herdman's problem, I think it's Biellos problem, and it's why I wouldn't be taking Wheldon or Smyrniotis right now.