Gold Cup - June 15th 2019 - Canada vs Martinique

[An Observer]

Is there a link to download this match? I bought it on cncacafgo but it doesn’t work for me now as I am in France. 

[MtlMario]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:30 AM, MtlMario said:

I say we win 4-0.

I say we beat Mexico 2-1. Have I ever lied to you before?😀😎

[Kadenge]

JH and the players have high expectations and so should we. Comparing results to prior years other than 2017 is not useful and sets the bar too low. Happy with a 4-0 win but the scoreline does not truly reflect  the game. Perhaps 6-3?. Why is Morgan part of the 23 when MAK and Rusty and perhaps Davies are playing or being suggested at LB? MAK is the most in form CM on the best MLS team for attributes that we need in the centre of the field. If we control the midfield it will take pressure off our back 4. We moved the ball well and Davies & David were gems. Hoilette was poor and he needs to up his game. 

[red card]

I give the team's performance as a B+. Not only have Canada lost to Martinique in the past, the past Cdn teams didn't pass the eye test. Martinique has also given other teams trouble in the past - US only beat them 3-2 in the last Gold Cup knockout stage.

First touches were good, which isn't something we can say about past teams. Passing accuracy was good to a point you really noticed a couple of bad crosses that JH did. Individual talents were easily on display - again something rarely seen in this century with Canada. I have rarely seen a Cdn senior team this comfortable with the ball and with each other against any type of opposition.

There were some defensive individual gaffes. Martinique could have scored on one of them but likewise, Canada missed some chances or good goalkeeping got in the way. Some of it was unexpected like from Piette and MAK. I think Herdman is still in the exploration stage in terms of the backline. There is still time before WC qualifying to iron things out and see which players emerge as worthy starters.

Neutrals are also starting to talk in excited tones about Canada when before we were either ignored or ridiculed. It's a great time to be alive as a Voyageur.

[SkuseisLoose]

I think the ref deserves some credit for doing well last night. Compared to a lot of Concacaf refs he was very solid, wasn’t to whistle happy and didn’t hand out cards like candy on Halloween. Controlled the game well, hope we get him again.

[Shway]

31 minutes ago, SkuseisLoose said:

I think the ref deserves some credit for doing well last night. Compared to a lot of Concacaf refs he was very solid, wasn’t to whistle happy and didn’t hand out cards like candy on Halloween. Controlled the game well, hope we get him again.

We played a Caribbean team, not a Latin American team 😉

[Yoginess]

4 years ago Canada couldn’t string passes together let alone create in the final third. It’s fine that expectations change as long as we acknowledge how far we’ve come

[yomurphy1]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

4 years ago Canada couldn’t string passes together let alone create in the final third. It’s fine that expectations change as long as we acknowledge how far we’ve come

I think looking at the stats of our game yesterday versus 2013 is quite telling even with the defensive lapses.

2019

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2019-06-15-canada-vs-martinique/stats

2013

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2013-07-07-canada-vs-martinique/stats

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

4 years ago Canada couldn’t string passes together let alone create in the final third. It’s fine that expectations change as long as we acknowledge how far we’ve come

Not to harp on this, but why are we comparing our current team to 4 years ago? Did we not see a vastly improved team in GC 2017? We played attacking football and got results against CR and Honduras in the pool games...finishing ahead of our nemesis HON....scoring goals and progressing to the knockouts. Our talent and depth quality is now at a higher level than 2017. Should we not expect better results? I get that, as fans, we have been burned many times in the past, but if JH and the players are raising the bar, why are we not doing the same? Herdman has openly talked about meeting Mexico in the SF....bring it on...and you know what, I love that confidence.

[Big_M]

Only mistake was godinho..it was clear when in club that he was too weak defensively and should never play at the back with the national team..his passing accuracy was off also..other than that good selections and good offensive plays but gotta be much better than that defensively and even with the ball in our half..very bad day for piette on that end

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not to harp on this, but why are we comparing our current team to 4 years ago? Did we not see a vastly improved team in GC 2017? We played attacking football and got results against CR and Honduras in the pool games...finishing ahead of our nemesis HON....scoring goals and progressing to the knockouts. Our talent and depth quality is now at a higher level than 2017. Should we not expect better results? I get that, as fans, we have been burned many times in the past, but if JH and the players are raising the bar, why are we not doing the same? Herdman has openly talked about meeting Mexico in the SF....bring it on...and you know what, I love that confidence.

For me it was less about expecting better results and more about down playing the level of our opponent.

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but the general attitude I got from most of the comments was along the lines of "oh it's only Martinique, we should walk all over them". For me that attitude is unrealistic and out of touch.

I would be okay if we took that attitude against Guyana or Bermuda, but not Martinique, who are closer to Haiti, T&T, Jamaica and Curacao than USVI, Saint Vincent, Saint Lucia etc. 

So although we lost to them in the past, I did expect us to beat them by multiple goals, but they were always going to give us trouble, because they are a good team that deserve more credit in my opinion.

I view our defensive mistakes in this context: They were going to generate chances in this match and we were going to commit some errors. That is nothing to get overly critical about if we are being realistic. It was the first game, after all.

That said, we must be better moving forward, of course, but I have faith we will sharpen up as the margin for error becomes smaller.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Obinna

[Moldy9]

Let’s GO!

 

[Addona]

9 hours ago, Big_M said:

Only mistake was godinho..it was clear when in club that he was too weak defensively and should never play at the back with the national team..his passing accuracy was off also..other than that good selections and good offensive plays but gotta be much better than that defensively and even with the ball in our half..very bad day for piette on that end

I agree with this regarding Godinho ... he seemed to be the weak link (of course, Hutch made a mistake or two as well, likely due to inexperience with playing CB) and they attacked his side a lot more I thought.  But, my sense is that Herdman would play ZBG at RB is any crucial game.  Playing Godinho in the 1st game was likely a way to get some squad rotation, and with the rest of the line-up being basically our top A squad (perhaps minus Henry), we would still be fine with a 2nd choice RB.

I was also wondering about Hutch or WJ at RB.  I remember Hutch being considered at RB several years ago by some on this board.  I wonder if our best back line might be:  Hutch - Henry - Cornelius - Kaye.

[ktf]

It is definitely a different era for this team in terms of caliber and depth. I know we need to raise expectations as we get better, but we still went through two Gold Cups with 0 goals, including a loss to Martinique, so I will take it!

I do wish we had James or Straith here. I know those two aren't world beaters, but Straith is in good form and played significant minutes in 3.Bundesliga. James also had a decent amount of playing time, and has looked solid with the MNT before. 

[jonovision]

What were people's thoughts on Hutchinson? I watched the game with a fair bit of skipping (coming home from a camping trip and trying to fit in watching MNT and WNT) so I may have missed a few Martinique chances. I thought he mostly looked composed with a few moments where, naturally, he did not look like a central defender.

[Addona]

41 minutes ago, jonovision said:

What were people's thoughts on Hutchinson? I watched the game with a fair bit of skipping (coming home from a camping trip and trying to fit in watching MNT and WNT) so I may have missed a few Martinique chances. I thought he mostly looked composed with a few moments where, naturally, he did not look like a central defender.

My hope is that, given his intelligence, we'll see quick improvement from him as he gets a couple of matches under his belt at CB ...

 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Addona said:

My hope is that, given his intelligence, we'll see quick improvement from him as he gets a couple of matches under his belt at CB ...

 

The way the Martinque forward turned on him and left him in the dust, I'm not sure that improves.  The poor guy isnt Superman, we cant just slot him in wherever we need someone and hope he performs against mexico.  This stuff has worked for Herdman against lesser opponents so far but I hope we have to natural CB in there against Mexico.  

[Bdog]

Yeah, Atiba’s pace worried me a bit. I’d rather just have him at CM in place of Piette and have two natural CBs. 

[jonovision]

2 minutes ago, Bdog said:

Yeah, Atiba’s pace worried me a bit. I’d rather just have him at CM in place of Piette and have two natural CBs. 

I'm not sure what that accomplishes either. Piette is a pure DM and in that role I think he's better than a 36 year old Atiba. If Hutch moves into midfield they need to tweak the tactics, even if he takes Piette's place.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

What were people's thoughts on Hutchinson? I watched the game with a fair bit of skipping (coming home from a camping trip and trying to fit in watching MNT and WNT) so I may have missed a few Martinique chances. I thought he mostly looked composed with a few moments where, naturally, he did not look like a central defender.

I thought Hutchinson was pretty good. He played CB as I expected he would.

He started a lot of attacks and the team benefited from having two ball-playing defenders back there.

The negative would be that he can get beat for pace if his positioning and/or anticipation is not spot on. On some plays it was, but there was one time Kevan Parsamen beat him on the turn and was straight through on goal.

Overall, I think he's a good alternative to Henry if we want to line up in that way. At 36 Hutchinson is not going to get stuck in and win defensive battles in the same way Henry does, but I would call the experiment a success thus far nonetheless.

I wonder if Herdman is tempted to shift Hutchinson to the left CB spot, drop Cornelius and insert Henry as the right CB?

Derek did well but is still pretty green, which is why he has yet to develop the consistency with his passing and decision making.

[Oranje]

I quickly scrolled through the post-game posts and I didn't see much about how Hoilett seems to be where momentum went to die. His decision making and passing were poor against less than average opposition. I get that players can play down to their competition, but he didn't show anything in that match that made me feel like he should be in the starting 11, as weird as it makes me feel to type that out..

[narduch]

Winning 4-0 will do that

[SpursFlu]

Correct me if im wrong but Hoilett was playing on the right which is not his favoured side. I saw him cut in during the first half and he looked out of rythem, which is not like him. MAK was also uncomfortable at LB especially trying to play balls down the sideline with his left foot. I also realized he dodnt really have the best speed outside with open space behind him.

Why were both these players but in this position? Cough.. cough.. Davies at LB

Edited June 17, 2019 by SpursFlu

[Reign]

Hutch got torched a couple times. I don’t see him working at cb against Mexico. Also don’t know if he has the pace for LB/RB

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Correct me if im wrong but Hoilett was playing on the right which is not his favoured side. I saw him cut in during the first half and he looked out of rythem, which is not like him. MAK was also uncomfortable at LB especially trying to play balls down the sideline with his left foot. I also realized he dodnt really have the best speed outside with open space behind him.

Why were both these players but in this position? Cough.. cough.. Davies at LB

He played on both sides. He made mistakes on both sides. @SpursFlu is right, Hoilett had a terrible game. I rewatched the game and the play literially died everytime the ball was on his foot.

First he was disposessed on the dribble (right flank). Next, from the left, he overhit a long pass to Godinho, which sailed over his head and out of bounds. This was followed up by yet another pass that went astray, I believe it was a cross that overhit. Later on, back on the right side, he took his man on in the box, but his cross was blocked. All of that was in the first half.

In the second half he was largely uninvolved until his goal from a supurb ball from Davies. Credit to him for making the run and finishing the play, but that was his last kick. It was time for him to get off. He really had a tough time getting settled into the game and unfortunately he never did find his rhythm.

Like I said before, it was by far his worst game for Canada, but I would rather this now than later in the tournament, when we need him to step up and produce some magic.

It will be interesting to see if he starts against Mexico.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Obinna