Enes Sali

[hodgkiss]

Again, after living most of his life here (if he doesn't feel Canadian), we shouldn't be begging. Go play for Romania. We want talented players that want to represent this country because they are proud Canadians. We are not second best -  ever! Good luck to him and Romania.

[Corazon]

I agree that if a player chooses not to represent Canada at the senior level to choose another program than good riddance.  I feel less upset if the player has little to no connection with Canada such as Ferdi or Cristante.  Players like them have no connection to Canada with an opportunity to play for solid international programs.  With that being said, we would all welcome Ferdi with open arms to our program if he chooses to.  Sali grew up in Canada and I would be upset if he chose to represent Romania over Canada at the senior level but good riddance if that is his choice.

However, I don't think we should be wishing youth players good riddance for choosing another youth program from another country over Canada given the state of our youth system.  If people are upset with youth players choosing another country to represent at youth level then they should be holding that same energy to our senior players that played youth elsewhere before switching to Canada's senior team.  If people are upset with this then here's a reminder that Eustaquio, Vitoria, Arfield, Corbeanu, Akinola & Wotherspoon all represented other countries at youth level and we all appreciate them and what they're doing for Canada now.  In addition, Leutwiler, Sturing, Gutierrez, Bassong, Ferreira, Twardek and countless others have represented other nations before switching to our senior program.

This goes without saying but of course I want all players to represent Canada at youth level but I don't hold it against them.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Corazon

[CanadaFan123]

We’re getting cocky if we think we can just let this kid slide. We need to throw the kitchen sink to get him onboard.

This could be a generational player and we need to keep the pipeline flowing after Davies etc.

[Yoginess]

13 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

We’re getting cocky if we think we can just let this kid slide. We need to throw the kitchen sink to get him onboard.

This could be a generational player and we need to keep the pipeline flowing after Davies etc.

Does he really have generational player potential? I don't know a lot about him. 

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

Does he really have generational player potential? I don't know a lot about him. 

He's like 15 years old starting in the Romanian top flight and has scored a goal already (and it was a wondergoal at that).

[Dominic94]

The early talk with he and Flores was that they could end up being amongst the best in the world some day.

[Atlantic]

52 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

The early talk with he and Flores was that they could end up being amongst the best in the world some day.

Flores definitely had that hype a few years ago but in my opinion that has definitely slowed down now.  He’s still only playing for the U18s while there are 11 players on Arsenal’s U23 squad who are the same age or younger and have already made that jump from the U18s. 
 

Sali is very an intriguing prospect and if the Galatasaray rumours are true that would be a pretty impressive move as a 16 year-old (assuming he moved next year). 

[Approve My Account Pls]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

However, I don't think we should be wishing youth players good riddance for choosing another youth program from another country over Canada given the state of our youth system

This is the most important point for all our young duals. Saying "the state of our youth system" is being generous to the fact that we just don't have one. We'll slap together an 18 each time we attend a tournament, but there's no development or continuity at that level. Until that changes and we have a stable youth program, we cannot blame these kids for playing youth football abroad

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

He's like 15 years old starting in the Romanian top flight and has scored a goal already (and it was a wondergoal at that).

So sort of like David Edgar? 

[Dominic94]

29 minutes ago, Atlantic said:

Flores definitely had that hype a few years ago but in my opinion that has definitely slowed down now.  He’s still only playing for the U18s while there are 11 players on Arsenal’s U23 squad who are the same age or younger and have already made that jump from the U18s. 
 

Sali is very an intriguing prospect and if the Galatasaray rumours are true that would be a pretty impressive move as a 16 year-old (assuming he moved next year). 

Fair, him not being with the U-23 this year doesn’t support his hype train.

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

We’re getting cocky if we think we can just let this kid slide. We need to throw the kitchen sink to get him onboard.

This could be a generational player and we need to keep the pipeline flowing after Davies etc.

This. We are not yet at a self-sustaining flow of top players for the CMNT. The more good players, regardless of how we get them in the door, can be only good and positive for our success and for the attractiveness of our program.

[Footyeh]

All this talk about whether "he feels connected more to Canada or Romania" is nonsense.  One nation simply is offering him chances to play high level youth international football which will BENEFIT his club career/transfer potential, and the other nation isn't.  Simple as that.

We have a few generational talents in our National Team that are carrying us to new heights, what we don't have his this amazing depth across our national teams where we should feel comfortable losing any player.  We don't have any comparable young player in our pool.  A quick Transfermarkt search will show that their has been approx 25 players 18 years old and under that have received minutes in the MLS this season, and approx 50+ in the USL Championship...That's depth!!

In Canada (CPL), only 10 players 18 years old and under have received minutes this season... 

[Sal333]

7 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

All this talk about whether "he feels connected more to Canada or Romania" is nonsense.  One nation simply is offering him chances to play high level youth international football which will BENEFIT his club career/transfer potential, and the other nation isn't.  Simple as that.

We have a few generational talents in our National Team that are carrying us to new heights, what we don't have his this amazing depth across our national teams where we should feel comfortable losing any player.  We don't have any comparable young player in our pool.  A quick Transfermarkt search will show that their has been approx 25 players 18 years old and under that have received minutes in the MLS this season, and approx 50+ in the USL Championship...That's depth!!

In Canada (CPL), only 10 players 18 years old and under have received minutes this season... 

I'm assuming the 25 MLS and 50 USL players you refer to are Americans. 25+50=75. Considering that the USA has 8.5 times our population that sounds about right. 10 Canadians X 8.5 = 85. So we're ahead of the Yanks when you take population size into consideration.

Joking aside, I agree with you. If Sali is projected to be a special player we should be doing everything to get him into our program.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, kacbru said:

So sort of like David Edgar? 

lol Eddy at his best could never score the type of goal Enes Sali did. 

But scoring against Man U? Well he's got that over him. 

[VinceA]

All this talk about playing for our youth teams is irrelevant when we DONT EVEN HOLD YOUTH CAMPS.

[hodgkiss]

I just don't understand why we need to convince people to be Canadian. You either are or you aren't. It shouldn't be only by convenience. Sure the guy might be talented and he was obviously developed here in Canada. But if he is Romanian now... he's not Canadian. Next! let's spend our energy on someone who wants to wear the red and white with a maple leaf on their chest.

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, hodgkiss said:

I just don't understand why we need to convince people to be Canadian. You either are or you aren't. It shouldn't be only by convenience. Sure the guy might be talented and he was obviously developed here in Canada. But if he is Romanian now... he's not Canadian. Next! let's spend our energy on someone who wants to wear the red and white with a maple leaf on their chest.

As has been pointed out though, we benefit from these guys, and when (if) they do commit they tend to play with 100% heart.  Hoilett is a good example - we were his second choice but now that he has signed up he goes all out.  Eustaquio may have preferred a Portugal call up at one point in his career but now he is part of a team Canada and is absolutely one of the first on the team sheet.  

Of we had an endless pipeline of guys coming out that were that quality, then I agree we wouldn’t need to “recruit” guys on the fence.  But we aren’t there yet - and may never be since there will always be another tier to aspire to.  

Of this kid is really talented then I have no problems with us pursuing him.  Especially in the cases of guys who are either significant talents or who fill big wholes in our lineups (e.g. Ferdi and Tomori respectively) it is just the reality of where we are at.  If they choose another country than so be it - and to hell with em.  But if they sign up here, than I will cheer them on until I am hoarse.  

[youllneverwalkalone]

I didn't think we were Junior second choice. I thought he just felt the CSA was amateurish and he was trying to establish himself at the top level in England. 

 

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, hodgkiss said:

I just don't understand why we need to convince people to be Canadian. You either are or you aren't. It shouldn't be only by convenience. Sure the guy might be talented and he was obviously developed here in Canada. But if he is Romanian now... he's not Canadian. Next! let's spend our energy on someone who wants to wear the red and white with a maple leaf on their chest.

I agree with the sentiment, but there is nuance to such situations. With multiculturalism comes split allegiances, so strong recruitment is a very important thing for a country like Canada. 

[canuckgbp]

Think back to when you were a teenager or in early twenties. It can be difficult to have a long term view at that age. Opinions change with experiences and outside influence can sway players at that age. Maybe if Junior could go back he would choose Canada earlier. But maybe not. If they don't automatically choose Canada immediately doesn't really mean much. Each situation is different. 

As has been pointed out the CSA was incompetent during many of the years especially with recruitment. Have things changed now? Herdman has brought a level of professionalism into this system. We still don't really have a top level youth focus though. Lack of games and camps. These other countries are still providing valuable opportunities for these duals. 

I think before a player is cap tied we need to make attempts to bring them into the fold which is exactly what Herdman is doing. Keeping lines of communication open which wasn't always the case in the past. The results within this qualifying period are also helping, along with more and more Canadians playing at a higher level around the world. 

We know have a league of our own and MLS is producing keys players for the national team. With these leagues continuing to grow it can provide more options for Canadians to develop here and have viable options as a professional. Before we never had that. 

This is also not uniquely a Canadian problem. Lots of nations battle over certain duals. Being professional, open and pragmatic with these duals like Herdman is doing is the way forward. Shutting out a young player because they choose a different youth national team doesn't make much sense. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by canuckgbp

[Approve My Account Pls]

I think it comes down to this. You're a 16 year old talent.

Can I play for Canada? No, their youth program is next to non-existent.

Can I play for country X that has a youth program that will allow me to play regular competitive minutes for the next 5 years and push my decision til I'm older, can see the landscape of both teams, and in general make a more informed decision? Yes.

In the fight for dual nationals, there are two "main" weapons: national pride and a relevant youth program. Until we have that youth program, we're fighting battles for dual nationals with one hand behind our back.

[The Real Marc]

Not only this, but how many times have we heard some sob story about getting cut when too young or too small. It's lame but this stuff sticks with a player. Blackballing youth guys for not committing never does any good - just creates resentment. Heck look at Vitoria, how important he's become for us. If we had been jerks, he might have chosen to pass.

[Corazon]

25 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Not only this, but how many times have we heard some sob story about getting cut when too young or too small. It's lame but this stuff sticks with a player. Blackballing youth guys for not committing never does any good - just creates resentment. Heck look at Vitoria, how important he's become for us. If we had been jerks, he might have chosen to pass.

Agreed 100%.  I said this earlier in the thread.

"Here's a reminder that Eustaquio, Vitoria, Arfield, Corbeanu, Akinola & Wotherspoon all represented other countries at youth level and all of us CMNT fans are fully appreciating them and what they're doing for our Canadian program now.  Other players to play youth international football elsewhere from our player pool since Herdman has taken over includes the likes of Leutwiler, Sturing, Gutierrez, Bassong, Ferreira & Twardek.

[Bertuzzi44]

If Canada has given up on U17/U20 programs the senior program will suffer for it in the future.

[Floortom]

Hopefully the World Cup qualifiers, World Cup bonus money etc will allow us to put some money back into the underage programs. 
just noticed that the US U20 program will be playing in a tourney with Mexico, Brazil and Colombia in November.