Enes Sali

[Obinna]

Just now, theaub said:

This is a CSA youth program funding issue, not a CSA scouting issue.

Is it though? If he's making the Romanian senior team for a WCQ at 15 years old, why didn't get a call to an U-15 identification camp at say 10 years old? I know that's probably unrealistic, since a lot of physical development happens between 10 and 14 years old, but we were having those ID camps in various regions throughout the country at that time if I recall correctly. Why not roll the dice and get him involved? Does the NTC in Ontario still exist? I realize it's almost impossible to have more pull than Hagi, but there are questions here beyond "is this a funding issue".

[Sal333]

8 minutes ago, theaub said:

This is a CSA youth program funding issue, not a CSA scouting issue.  I don't think we've had a U-18 or under camp since COVID started.

My instincts tell me it's a scouting issue. We had a similar problem with Akinola. He kept showing up at youth camps and being rejected. Finally a local coach recommended him to the American program and they took him in the minute they saw him. We just got lucky that GGG is a dumbass. On the other hand Hagi knows the game.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Sal333

[theaub]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is it though? If he's making the Romanian senior team for a WCQ at 15 years old, why didn't get a call to an U-15 identification camp at say 10 years old? I know that's probably unrealistic, since a lot of physical development happens between 10 and 14 years old, but we were having those ID camps in various regions throughout the country at that time if I recall correctly. Why not roll the dice and get him involved? Does the NTC in Ontario still exist? I realize it's almost impossible to have more pull than Hagi, but there are questions here beyond "is this a funding issue".

Honest question as I don't know, but does the NTC even exist at that young of an age group?  

 

[dyslexic nam]

31 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What about the 3 cap then switch rule thing?

This will be moot.  If they are willing to hand him a cap at 15 just to get him, they will at the very least give him enough garbage minutes to keep him.   

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, theaub said:

Honest question as I don't know, but does the NTC even exist at that young of an age group?  

 

Typically they are a mixture of ages. Back when I played youth soccer you went to U-15 national all-star and club competitions and were scouted there, so the ages typically ranged from 14 to 18 years old and all the players trained together if I am not mistaken. A few of my ex-teammates from provincial team soccer attended the NTC in Halifax and that's how it worked and I am pretty sure it worked like that elsewhere in Canada, though Atlantic Canada being a relatively small region perhaps they put all of the kids in the same training group and had age specific training groups in Ontario and elsewhere, but it never worked that way as far as I know. 

So if you are good enough you are old enough, basically. I don't ever recall hearing about players needing to be a certain age.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

This will be moot.  If they are willing to hand him a cap at 15 just to get him, they will at the very least give him enough garbage minutes to keep him.   

anything can happen though, what if he picks up a knock? What if Romania fail to qualify? I agree it's extremely unlikely he doesn't surpass 3 caps in the next 3 years, but just trying to scope out what is theoretically possible.

[Sal333]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

anything can happen though, what if he picks up a knock? What if Romania fail to qualify? I agree it's extremely unlikely he doesn't surpass 3 caps in the next 3 years, but just trying to scope out what is theoretically possible.

Romania is 41 on the FIFA rankings. They have a decent chance of qualifying for 2022 WC.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Sal333

[Dominic94]

59 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yeah, being called from Romania U17 to the Senior squad reeks of bad faith management. He should be in no rush to tie himself down. Graduate to u19 and u21 football. He's 15 FFS.

I should elaborate,

What I mean is, in your last point. I do believe he should go with their youth set up 10000% as we have none and he needs to play and they can offer him exposure that we can’t.

However, to go and take a senior call up for the sole purpose of cap tying at 15 is selfish by advising by Hagi. I’m fairly certain that Enes could flip flop on NT’s and get some games in for both (U23 qualifying for Can) by playing the field. I’m not entirely convinced that Romania will be a better team than Canada in 5 years, and all due respect to them but we have Atleast 1 WC to offer and it’s likely we qualify next year. There’s some opportunities that he would miss out on, and again even in terms of exposure, Davies and David aren’t in their prime, Adidas and Nike will be competing for them for a decade. Finally, Canada’s best players are 21 and there is definitely another Davies/David prospect that will emerge shortly, wether we get Sali or not, there’s more like him coming I do believe  that, I’m not so sure the same can be said for Romania. In terms of winning and playing games and what he feels etc, I think Hagi just wants Romania to have a star player potentially, because I don’t think they’ll be better than us in 5 years and I do believe over the next 15 we could end up in the Copa America, Multiple WC and win a few gold cups. Not so sure about Romania winning anything or making anything.

I feel like the player would be losing out here.

[SCF08]

Here he is in the squad.

 

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I should elaborate,

What I mean is, in your last point. I do believe he should go with their youth set up 10000% as we have none and he needs to play and they can offer him exposure that we can’t.

However, to go and take a senior call up for the sole purpose of cap tying at 15 is selfish by advising by Hagi. I’m fairly certain that Enes could flip flop on NT’s and get some games in for both (U23 qualifying for Can) by playing the field. I’m not entirely convinced that Romania will be a better team than Canada in 5 years, and all due respect to them but we have Atleast 1 WC to offer and it’s likely we qualify next year. There’s some opportunities that he would miss out on, and again even in terms of exposure, Davies and David aren’t in their prime, Adidas and Nike will be competing for them for a decade. Finally, Canada’s best players are 21 and there is definitely another Davies/David prospect that will emerge shortly, wether we get Sali or not, there’s more like him coming I do believe  that, I’m not so sure the same can be said for Romania. In terms of winning and playing games and what he feels etc, I think Hagi just wants Romania to have a star player potentially, because I don’t think they’ll be better than us in 5 years and I do believe over the next 15 we could end up in the Copa America, Multiple WC and win a few gold cups. Not so sure about Romania winning anything or making anything.

I feel like the player would be losing out here.

And with all that against Romania Sali still chose to go with them. Makes me question what CSA was doing - if anything at all - about keeping this kid's options opened.

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, SCF08 said:

Here he is in the squad.

 

Jeeze, man, I don't need another reminder. You're breaking my heart.

[Fullback]

Sucks to lose him but what could we have done about it? Even if we did have a U17/U20 camp I have a feeling if he had to decide between being in our youth program or being a full nat for Romania he probably isn’t picking us.

It’s unfortunate but let’s be realistic about this.

 

[dennis]

Bad move for this kid, Not much to gain other than a bit of NT experience. I see no reason why he should be limiting his options so early in his career. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

If Romania is doing so badly they feel like they need to do this, then let them. This kid can't help Canada at this moment. 

Another thing is that you're so badly advised you'd take a call up at age 15.

[Kent]

I think there are some extreme reactions here. Maybe this kid is the next Davies. Maybe he is the next Boakai. Maybe he is somewhere in between.

There is probably about 0% chance he would have been good enough at 10 years old to make the U-15 Ontario team. 10 year olds just can't compete physically at that level, unless maybe they are a Freddy Adu "10".

Has anyone here that is getting depressed about this watched him play a game? Let alone multiple games? One highlight doesn't count. From what I can find on Transfermarkt it looks like he has a total of 233 pro minutes played, and has never played more than 45 minutes in a pro game. Of course we aren't calling him up at this time. For the "we capped Davies at 16" argument, Davies had more CONCACAF Champions League experience at the time of his debut than Sali has pro experience. That's not even counting Davies playing in the Canadian Championship and MLS.

[Dominic94]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If Romania is doing so badly they feel like they need to do this, then let them. This kid can't help Canada at this moment. 

Another thing is that you're so badly advised you'd take a call up at age 15.

Before people jump in to say blah blah blah Davies….

1 We were that bad

2 Davies options were not looking good at all.

[Kadenge]

it's ironic that there are several young players that have been called to the CMNT like Ferdi, Flores & probably Jebbo that  have chosen to hold off for another country or simply delay their decision. Sali has decided to commit to Romania at 15. I simply cannot believe that there has been no contact between him and Herdman who has done a great job with duals. At the very least you have to think that there has been contact with Theo who also played youth footie for Romania.  His family probably wanted him to play for Romania. It sucks but we cant get them all. 

[Pottsy3]

55 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

You're putting the cart before the horse. Davies won the golden boot only after he was named to the NT. If Davies wasn't named to the NT he would have won didley squat.

And I don't think it's a scummy move. Romania saw an exceptional talent and pounced. I give them credit. 

Davies was named to the senior national team after more than a year with the Whitecaps first team where he proved that he belonged. In that tournament we called 2 NASL players and an MAK who was barely getting minutes in the USL, it was very clear that Davies was amongst our best 23 at the time based on merit. 

I think that the merit of the callup is where most of our gripes are coming from. This seems like nothing more than a desperate attempt to beat us to a player, not a merit-based callup. I'd very much doubt that Canada had no contact with Sali, more so I'd imagine Romania feared a growing contact. Italy finally calling up Cristante was similar, he didn't warrant a callup at the time but they didn't want to lose him to Canada in the future.

[canuckgbp]

Strange advice indeed. From the outside it seems like the people advising him are afraid Canada or Turkey will swoop in and try in cap him in a couple years. Otherwise why not wait and see how things progress. The focus on "club football" should definitely apply at this age. 

I don't know how good this kid currently is compared to the Romanian squad. They are currently ranked 41st so they are a good side. Idk know how the Romanian domestic league rates compared to other leagues. He has played 7 games, has a goal but hasn't started a match yet.

Has this kid showed that much in such a short window that he can improve that squad? Looks like the last four matches he has gotten 45 mins so he subbed on at halftime? He also didn't play the last 2 league matches. 

I wonder in say 2026 how we will look back on this. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by canuckgbp

[Big_M]

Bottom line is we want players who want to play for us

Move this to world soccer and if he ever switches to Canada it can be moved back here

[El Hombre]

34 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

We had a similar problem with Akinola. He kept showing up at youth camps and being rejected.

I find this claim rather specious.  This is the first I'd heard that Canada rejected him.  Unless that was when they decided to go with a young Jonathan David over Akinola.

As for losing Sali, as much as it hurts, everyone needs to get used to cases like this.  On the whole we are a net positive against Romania as Corbeanu is currently better than Sali.  Could Sali eventually be better?  Sure.  That's possible.  But it's also possible that he could become the next Boakai as @Kent said.

There are also some kids that will play for other countries no matter what we do.  To use this as an indictment of the entire program is to overlook convincing Dias to come to the U23 qualifiers and Flores to attend camps (until he got cold feet) and bring both Gutierrez and Corbeanu into the fold.  Hell, even Yankov was invited to a number of camps and look where he is.

I'm not advocating for doing nothing, but I think you have to look at it holistically and right now we are winning more than losing.

Also, this seems like much more of an indictment of the Romanian program than the Canadian program.

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Kent said:

I think there are some extreme reactions here. Maybe this kid is the next Davies. Maybe he is the next Boakai. Maybe he is somewhere in between.

There is probably about 0% chance he would have been good enough at 10 years old to make the U-15 Ontario team. 10 year olds just can't compete physically at that level, unless maybe they are a Freddy Adu "10".

Has anyone here that is getting depressed about this watched him play a game? Let alone multiple games? One highlight doesn't count. From what I can find on Transfermarkt it looks like he has a total of 233 pro minutes played, and has never played more than 45 minutes in a pro game. Of course we aren't calling him up at this time. For the "we capped Davies at 16" argument, Davies had more CONCACAF Champions League experience at the time of his debut than Sali has pro experience. That's not even counting Davies playing in the Canadian Championship and MLS.

I think you're right here, but that's why I brought up the NTC. It is more of a training environment, whereas the provincial teams are geared towards winning medals at the national championship, which players ultimately get scouted from.

He could have theoretically by-passed the whole provincial team set up, considering what his ceiling is, and trained directly with other national team prospects from Ontario at NTC, without the realities of his age affecting things. 

Ah well, it's all moot now anyways. 

[Sal333]

24 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I find this claim rather specious.  This is the first I'd heard that Canada rejected him.  Unless that was when they decided to go with a young Jonathan David over Akinola.

As for losing Sali, as much as it hurts, everyone needs to get used to cases like this.  On the whole we are a net positive against Romania as Corbeanu is currently better than Sali.  Could Sali eventually be better?  Sure.  That's possible.  But it's also possible that he could become the next Boakai as @Kent said.

There are also some kids that will play for other countries no matter what we do.  To use this as an indictment of the entire program is to overlook convincing Dias to come to the U23 qualifiers and Flores to attend camps (until he got cold feet) and bring both Gutierrez and Corbeanu into the fold.  Hell, even Yankov was invited to a number of camps and look where he is.

I'm not advocating for doing nothing, but I think you have to look at it holistically and right now we are winning more than losing.

Also, this seems like much more of an indictment of the Romanian program than the Canadian program.

TSN had a bio video on Akinola about a year ago. If you have doubts about what I said you can search it on their site and make up your own mind.

I went and found it for you. The comments start at around 7:40. Oh and you don't need to apologize for calling my claim specious.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Sal333

[bwilly11]

This call up just exemplifies the struggles of being a CMNT supporter. Every range of emotions have entered my head that could be summed up by a "WTF?".

Remind me of this thread in 2026

[El Hombre]

26 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

TSN had a bio video on Akinola about a year ago. If you have doubts about what I said you can search it on their site and make up your own mind.

I went and found it for you. The comments start at around 7:40. Oh and you don't need to apologize for calling my claim specious.

 

So it was exactly as I figured.  Might be worth providing context to what was said rather than say that Canada "rejected" Ayo: Yes, he wasn't selected even though other players from his team were (no mention of what position they played which is an important point) but there were a couple other players that Canada was looking at at the time of that U15 camp: Jonathan David and Alphonso Davies (who was considered a forward at the time).  They were also pursuing a Jordan Perruzza who is a year younger and in 2014 was catching the eye of Empoli. 

Sometimes players work out, other times they don't.  But you'll never be able to catch them all.  Again, it's all about the net effect and right now Canada has a net positive.