Joel Waterman

[Kent]

For me when MacNaughton is around the play he does well enough. It just seems like he is absent sometimes. There's a guy open who scores, so it isn't obvious who messed up. And to be clear, I'm not sure how often it's MacNaughton either, probably a mix of guys. But in August TFC has given up very nearly 2 goals per game on average (if it wasn't for that Charlotte shut out last week, where Charlotte let TFC off the hook a number of times, it would be 2 goals per game exactly). That isn't exactly "if it ain't broke don't fix it" territory.

[Bison44]

What if the fix is pairing Henry and Mavinga??

[RS]

13 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What if the fix is pairing Henry and Mavinga??

Bradley is likely very hesitant to do that given how badly he was burned when he played Mavinga and Salcedo together earlier this year.

Anyway, how did Joel Waterman do last night?

[BearcatSA]

I thought he was fine overall.  He stayed on script with the passing out of the back.  I look forward to his call up later this month.

The one thing that I would like to see more from him (which I think he is capable) are the long diagonal balls to a wide player which help unlock teams that pack the middle, like the Energy Drinks did last night to good effect.  Teams do this a lot against Vancouver who set up similarly but Montreal also didn't have the flank personnel last night who could take advantage of those opportunities, either.

[Aird25]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I thought he was fine overall.  He stayed on script with the passing out of the back.  I look forward to his call up later this month.

The one thing that I would like to see more from him (which I think he is capable) are the long diagonal balls to a wide player which help unlock teams that pack the middle, like the Energy Drinks did last night to good effect.  Teams do this a lot against Vancouver who set up similarly but Montreal also didn't have the flank personnel last night who could take advantage of those opportunities, either.

I didn't watch last night, but it looks like Waterman had 106 accurate passes, and 8 accurate long balls. That's a lot of the ball for one match

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I didn't watch last night, but it looks like Waterman had 106 accurate passes, and 8 accurate long balls. That's a lot of the ball for one match

Maybe the flank players just couldn't do anything with the service.  

Edit: rewatching, I saw one crossfield ball but it was when NYRB were already set in their own half and the receiver was very quickly closed down.  Waterman has that arrow in his quiver but it comes to better effect when you knock that ball from deeper in your own end.  Watch Colorado's Danny Wilson to Jonathon Lewis vs Vancouver recently for examples.

Regardless, I think he deserves a look in the next international window.

MacNaughton?  Watching him get dispossesed so easily at the halfway vs LAG in the 60th minute was quite concerning.

Edited September 1, 2022 by BearcatSA

[Kent]

15 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What if the fix is pairing Henry and Mavinga??

If I was TFC coach for a day, that's what I would start with.

[Stoppage Time]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Maybe the flank players just couldn't do anything with the service.  

Edit: rewatching, I saw one crossfield ball but it was when NYRB were already set in their own half and the receiver was very quickly closed down.  Waterman has that arrow in his quiver but it comes to better effect when you knock that ball from deeper in your own end.  Watch Colorado's Danny Wilson to Jonathon Lewis vs Vancouver recently for examples.

Regardless, I think he deserves a look in the next international window.

MacNaughton?  Watching him get dispossesed so easily at the halfway vs LAG in the 60th minute was quite concerning.

MacNaughton is a nice story in that he made a jump up to TFC; however, Waterman is on a different level so, yes, he does deserve a call up in September for a look see.

[phil03]

So I was listening to the Northern Futbol Podcast and they discussed Waterman's future. They made the case that on one hand obviously going to Europe and playing at a higher level would have many benefits but on the other hand Johnston and Miller are likely to have good transfers in the near future so if Waterman stick around he would get to be THE guy on his team's backline and there is something to be said for that too, at least for a little while.

I am biased due to MTL being my club but it did make sense to me. Any thoughts?

[gigi riva]

i think Waterman deserves a call up

[CanadaFan123]

9 hours ago, phil03 said:

So I was listening to the Northern Futbol Podcast and they discussed Waterman's future. They made the case that on one hand obviously going to Europe and playing at a higher level would have many benefits but on the other hand Johnston and Miller are likely to have good transfers in the near future so if Waterman stick around he would get to be THE guy on his team's backline and there is something to be said for that too, at least for a little while.

I am biased due to MTL being my club but it did make sense to me. Any thoughts?

I don’t see what the attraction would be for a defender being “the guy” - there’s little to gain and a lot to lose. Also, I’m sure that Montreal will replace Johnston/Miller when/if they do go. 
 

 

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I don’t see what the attraction would be for a defender being “the guy” - there’s little to gain and a lot to lose. Also, I’m sure that Montreal will replace Johnston/Miller when/if they do go.

Salary would be the biggest attraction, I think. Making mid to high six figures to live in Montreal is definitely not the worst way to play out your prime. At 27, I think the type of move Waterman could realistically get would be to like, Belgium, Turkey, Netherlands, Portugal, *maybe* as a depth piece on a Championship team, and while that is technically a step up, getting a guaranteed starter spot in Montreal on a good salary is a very attractive prospect for a veteran.

[The Real Marc]

Europe isn't all that attractive if you're a mid-level player and can play at home and make hundreds of thousands of dollars doing so.

[Obinna]

Galindo pointed out on the NF podcast that Vitoria seems to have sorted himself out. Great match vs. Sporting, scoring a goal and getting the MOTM award. Chaves are pushing toward the European places. All seems to be going well.

Does this affect Waterman either way? I personally think he needs to be called and has earned it, but part of the reason to call him was because Vitoria was an unknown. He was out of contract and he's at the age where things get questionable in general. The Vitoria question has seemingly been answered, so does Herdman bring Waterman in?

He has played in the middle of a back 3 for Montreal recently, and we know he can play on the right side of a back 3. I'd love to see him called, but I think Herdman will want to see Corbeanu. He may want to bring in Cornelius AND Kennedy. He may even roll out the red carpet for Mitrovic.

How many players are going to this camp in September? 27? 28? I doubt it will be more than 26. That's probably going to require 2 of Mitrovic, Corbeanu, Cornelius, Kennedy and Waterman to miss out. 

[phil03]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

Galindo pointed out on the NF podcast that Vitoria seems to have sorted himself out. Great match vs. Sporting, scoring a goal and getting the MOTM award. Chaves are pushing toward the European places. All seems to be going well.

Does this affect Waterman either way? I personally think he needs to be called and has earned it, but part of the reason to call him was because Vitoria was an unknown. He was out of contract and he's at the age where things get questionable in general. The Vitoria question has seemingly been answered, so does Herdman bring Waterman in?

He has played in the middle of a back 3 for Montreal recently, and we know he can play on the right side of a back 3. I'd love to see him called, but I think Herdman will want to see Corbeanu. He may want to bring in Cornelius AND Kennedy. He may even roll out the red carpet for Mitrovic.

How many players are going to this camp in September? 27? 28? I doubt it will be more than 26. That's probably going to require 2 of Mitrovic, Corbeanu, Cornelius, Kennedy and Waterman to miss out. 

I'd say he's probably getting called. The dept chart for the backline isn't great and he is used to play with Miller and Johnston so it still make sense IMO. Now actually playing some serious minutes? Yeah, it was always gonna be an uphill fight for this cycle and it just got significantly moreso.

Really, as far as the Canadian team is concerned Waterman's time was always gonna be the next cycle , as Vitoria is probably gonna be cycled out and Waterman is entering his prime while Henry is probably in the middle of it. Unless Herdman and co manage to convince Holmes, Waterman is probably gonna be a starter and even if Holmes does come in then he'd still be a very honorable, often used, first in-line in his position kind of substitute ala Ugbo and Hoilet.

Edited September 3, 2022 by phil03

[BearcatSA]

I hope he has a stromg match tonight to further his case for inclusion for this international window.

Edited September 13, 2022 by BearcatSA

[narduch]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

I hope he has a stromg match tonight to further his case for inclusion for this international window.

Montreal uses him in all 3 spots in a back 3. Tonight he's playing on the left.

Would be useful with that kind of utility. 

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

Montreal uses him in all 3 spots in a back 3. Tonight he's playing on the left.

Would be useful with that kind of utility. 

Plus he almost teed up ZBG with a. Sweet diagonal ball.  Hard to deny that Waterman should get a call in the September window.  

[costarg]

He's gotta be there at this point.  I understand the brotherhood stuff, but it's getting pretty close to impossible to justify Henry getting on the plane.  I feel it's been downhill since South Korea.

[Gian-Luca]

Just gave away a PK that Caldwell might not have liked but it was a stupid play nonetheless 

[VinceA]

Just gave away a stupid penalty because he couldn't keep his cool. Don't care what Caldwell says you can't push a guy in the box you're asking for trouble.

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Just gave away a PK that Caldwell might not have liked but it was a stupid play nonetheless 

 

1 minute ago, VinceA said:

Just gave away a stupid penalty because he couldn't keep his cool. Don't care what Caldwell says you can't push a guy in the box you're asking for trouble.

Agreed.  May or may not have actually been a PK, but you can’t give the ref a decision to make for something so petty and unnecessary.  

[Corazon]

As good as Montreal is, it’s hard to believe their goals against this season.  It’s actually quite abysmal.  And yet Kamal is having an all star season, Waterman is having a breakout season.  Johnston is having a fantastic season.  And yet they’re only a few less goals against than Toronto FC who’s defense is one of the worst ever.

There’s only 8 teams with more goals against.  And they’re two goals away from being in the bottom 4 in MLS

Edited September 14, 2022 by Corazon

[red card]

Waterman leads the MLS in yellow cards this year.

Other than his yellow tonight, I can't believe all the other yellows were due to being hot headed. So, it implies he's covering for his back line deficiencies.

[MauditYvon]

Goalkeeping was atrocious. Bono, compared to Breza, is Yachin.