Joel Waterman

[Colliedor]

23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

If not Waterman than McNaughton should get a call.  Very good for CPL to have recent grads doing so well in MLS.  

Eh, McNaughton is very far from CMNT quality imo. He has many weaknesses. Waterman ain't perfect either but a more complete player for sure.

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I

I'm pretty sure Alistair Johnston was born in BC 

You’re right.  Wrong wording.  I meant to say raised as in spent youth soccer developing in the province.  Johnston’s connection to BC is fairly similar to Tomori’s connect to Canada.

[narduch]

Just scored for Montreal off a corner to tie the game 

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Just scored for Montreal off a corner to tie the game 

 

[Craig11rm]

Lol anyone notice Miller heading it on to Waterman and it looks like he does a little prayer after as he drops to his knees 😂

[VinceA]

Kind of ridiculous he's not on the roster for June. We needs more CBs and even if he's not going to Qatar getting him caps with this group is good for the future.

[Obinna]

Yeah, how this guy is not on the NT by now is shocking to me as well, VinceA. 

He'll get his chance, eventually. I don't see how he doesn't. The middle of the back 3 is screaming for him, if not the RCB spot. Waterman is pretty versitile. Not that we need cover there, but I can see him shifting to the LCB too if we needed him there in an emergency. 

[Corazon]

3 hours ago, VinceA said:

Kind of ridiculous he's not on the roster for June. We needs more CBs and even if he's not going to Qatar getting him caps with this group is good for the future.

I’ve been debating talking about this as well.  I love what Herdman has done to our program and I love the brotherhood but if there’s one downside it’s his lack of introducing players in form.

Im a Doneil fan when he’s healthy but how is he chosen over Waterman right now.  It’s crazy to me.  Same goes for players like Piette who has started just once this season.  There are more deserving Canadian midfielders on his own team that deserve a call over him.  I’d argue even some of the TFC players.  Our player pool from the past 12 months is about to drop down to about 30 because he only calls the same players whether they’re in form or not.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not calling Mitrovic (joking, apparently he has refused to file his switch) because Wotherspoon already has a ticket to Qatar (who I really want to see at Qatar anyways).  We just lost Osorio to injury, Kaye’s form for Canada hasn’t been great.  Piette has not earned this call on form this season.  Herdman needs to start introducing players to the program.  
I’m all for keeping cohesion for the World Cup but I’ve never seen a coach use the same 25 players over 24 months as Herdman has.  Despite club form.

I’m hoping he’s rewarding this core for the last several years but after Qatar I hope we see a lot more call ups based on merit and not history.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Corazon

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, Corazon said:

I’ve been debating talking about this as well.  I love what Herdman has done to our program and I love the brotherhood but if there’s one downside it’s his lack of introducing players in form.

 

This has really bugged me as well.  We never seem to call a few extra guys for camps.  If the "brotherhood" is a closed circle, if your not integrating new players and expanding it to the emerging players...when does it just become a clique??  The group that are Herdmans favs and guys he trusts, and it doesnt matter if Waterman is shoulder to shoulder with CMNT standout Johnston and Miller as MLS starters, he wont get called in.  Unless its a dual from europe that they are slobbering over (Ugbo), then they make an exception and dont really care about rocking the boat.    

[Obinna]

20 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This has really bugged me as well.  We never seem to call a few extra guys for camps.  If the "brotherhood" is a closed circle, if your not integrating new players and expanding it to the emerging players...when does it just become a clique??  The group that are Herdmans favs and guys he trusts, and it doesnt matter if Waterman is shoulder to shoulder with CMNT standout Johnston and Miller as MLS starters, he wont get called in.  Unless its a dual from europe that they are slobbering over (Ugbo), then they make an exception and dont really care about rocking the boat.    

I have mentioned before that one of my concerns with Herdman is that he may be keeping things too closed.

I mean, obviously he has more experience at this stuff than all of us combined, but I can't help but worry about it.

I am not saying drop Henry, but I am saying call an extra body or two sometimes, be it Waterman or arguably someone like Choniere for the midfield, if not the wing back spots. These are versitle players starting for a good MLS side who've yet to be capped, and our rosters always feel a few players too short. 

But to be fair to Herdman , Waterman has been part of 2 camps so far in 2022, so it's not as if he's being ignored. Players like Gutierrez, Schaffleburg, Nelson and Priso have been in and around the team. Kone came out of nowhere and played WCQ minutes last window. So there is some blooding, I would just like to see more of it.  

[jonovision]

I understand that the back line is one place where you don't want to get too experimental. On the other hand we played Atiba at CB in the last window!? I would worry about Waterman's obvious limitations getting exposed if he was thrown into the mix in Qatar, but an aging Vitoria and card-collector Henry don't inspire a ton of confidence either.

We have enough depth at other positions that I think guys like Guti and the TFC youngsters probably don't need to get called up yet. CB is a different story.

[PiedPilko]

Whats strange to me is how JH is pretty willing to bring anyone in so long as they're been in the program at some point under his lead - i.e. Brym.

Waterman was called but not capped in the first round of wcq - it's weird that he hasn't gotten the same treatment.

Edited May 30, 2022 by PiedPilko

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

I understand that the back line is one place where you don't want to get too experimental. On the other hand we played Atiba at CB in the last window!? I would worry about Waterman's obvious limitations getting exposed if he was thrown into the mix in Qatar, but an aging Vitoria and card-collector Henry don't inspire a ton of confidence either.

We have enough depth at other positions that I think guys like Guti and the TFC youngsters probably don't need to get called up yet. CB is a different story.

I guess a journo will have to ask Herdman straight up about Waterman's exclusion at the next major presser.  I'm curious what his answer would be.

 

[Bison44]

BearcatSA...I think you might be waiting a long time to hear that question.  

[SirBobsaget]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

I understand that the back line is one place where you don't want to get too experimental. On the other hand we played Atiba at CB in the last window!? I would worry about Waterman's obvious limitations getting exposed if he was thrown into the mix in Qatar, but an aging Vitoria and card-collector Henry don't inspire a ton of confidence either.

We have enough depth at other positions that I think guys like Guti and the TFC youngsters probably don't need to get called up yet. CB is a different story.

Brym is not being called up for WC 2022, but with some devastating injuries to the backline Waterman might be. Don't understand such a short call-up for the backline. Maybe CF Montreal asked for a favor to not lose too many back-line players.

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, SirBobsaget said:

Brym is not being called up for WC 2022, but with some devastating injuries to the backline Waterman might be. Don't understand such a short call-up for the backline. Maybe CF Montreal asked for a favor to not lose too many back-line players.

 

3 hours ago, PiedPilko said:

Whats strange to me is how JH is pretty willing to bring anyone in so long as they're been in the program at some point under his lead - i.e. Brym.

Waterman was called but not capped in the first round of wcq - it's weird that he hasn't gotten the same treatment.

I think Brym is a special case in that Herdman really rates him beyond the club level he's at. Just my personal gut sense. Correct me if I am wrong, but he commented on Brym at some point saying he's the type who gets better around better players. Well, he's surrounded by better players at the national team, so maybe it's a case of Herdman seeing what he likes in camp and hence giving him more chances and call ups than we generally expect for a player who's not at a high club level. If he's got the quality that Herdman seems to believe he'll eventually carve out a decent career on the club side.

Anyways, that's my little theory on the curious casw of Charles Andreas Brym.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

BearcatSA...I think you might be waiting a long time to hear that question.  

Why?  Player selection questions are (or, should be) fairly standard inquiries.

[P-O]

I was really skeptical when we bought him and it was worst when I saw him play the first time.

 

But he has grown into a player and he is still developing. Is he becoming a first choice in the MTL 11? It is tough to evaluate his ceiling.

 

Just having this topic on him and the discussion are telling the impact the CPL will have on the long term for our game. Canadians need to play and stories like Waterman are why this league is essential.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by P-O

[RS]

10 hours ago, SirBobsaget said:

Maybe CF Montreal asked for a favor to not lose too many back-line players.

That shouldn't be an issue as Montreal doesn't play during the international break.

[N1ckbr0wn]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

I think Brym is a special case in that Herdman really rates him beyond the club level he's at. Just my personal gut sense. Correct me if I am wrong, but he commented on Brym at some point saying he's the type who gets better around better players. Well, he's surrounded by better players at the national team, so maybe it's a case of Herdman seeing what he likes in camp and hence giving him more chances and call ups than we generally expect for a player who's not at a high club level. If he's got the quality that Herdman seems to believe he'll eventually carve out a decent career on the club side.

Anyways, that's my little theory on the curious casw of Charles Andreas Brym.

I’ve come up with a theory that JH calls up players like Brym, Henry and Fraser in hopes that a national team call up can help land them at a higher level. That’s my only reasoning I have for very little experimentation roster wise

[Sal333]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:40 AM, VinceA said:

Kind of ridiculous he's not on the roster for June. We needs more CBs and even if he's not going to Qatar getting him caps with this group is good for the future.

 

On 5/29/2022 at 12:45 PM, Obinna said:

Yeah, how this guy is not on the NT by now is shocking to me as well, VinceA. 

He'll get his chance, eventually. I don't see how he doesn't. The middle of the back 3 is screaming for him, if not the RCB spot. Waterman is pretty versitile. Not that we need cover there, but I can see him shifting to the LCB too if we needed him there in an emergency. 

I don't know if you guys watch him on a regular basis but he needs to work on his defensive game. For me he is on the outside. May need another year or two of seasoning.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

I don't know if you guys watch him on a regular basis but he needs to work on his defensive game. For me he is on the outside. May need another year or two of seasoning.

Perhaps Herdman, De Vos, et al are seeing the same things, who knows?

[Sal333]

9 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Perhaps Herdman, De Vos, et al are seeing the same things, who knows?

It's not just Herdman et al. It's also the CFM coaching staff and sporting director.

Waterman plays mostly RCB for Montreal. On very rare occasions has he played CB. That means on the NT he is behind Johnston. This summer Montreal had the choice of going with Waterman at CB or bringing back Camacho an extremely flawed player. They brought back the Frenchman.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Sal333

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

It's not just Herdman et al. It's also the CFM coaching staff and sporting director.

Waterman plays mostly RCB for Montreal. On very rare occasions has he played CB. That means on the NT he is behind Johnston. This summer Montreal had the choice of going with Waterman at CB or bringing back Camacho an extremely flawed player. They brought back the Frenchman.

By that logic, shouldn’t we also not be calling Miller and Johnston as CBs because they brought back Camacho instead of playing them there?

Many of our players have flaws. They’re easy to point out but I can’t think of many other players, if any, we have that hadn’t received a cap after 50+ matches for a decent MLS side or similar level. Particularly in a position of need for us. It seems to take some players less than a handful of games to get a look

[Francois79]

2 hours ago, Sal333 said:

It's not just Herdman et al. It's also the CFM coaching staff and sporting director.

Waterman plays mostly RCB for Montreal. On very rare occasions has he played CB. That means on the NT he is behind Johnston. This summer Montreal had the choice of going with Waterman at CB or bringing back Camacho an extremely flawed player. They brought back the Frenchman.

Waterman isn't world class, but today's Waterman is a more than capable option for both Montreal and Canada. You can say they brought Camacho back, but you can also say they are sitting Corbo on the bench because they prefer Waterman, that's a strong statement in favor of Waterman. I really can't see a logical reason for him not to be included.