costarg Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, Francois79 said: Waterman isn't world class, but today's Waterman is a more than capable option for both Montreal and Canada. You can say they brought Camacho back, but you can also say they are sitting Corbo on the bench because they prefer Waterman, that's a strong statement in favor of Waterman. I really can't see a logical reason for him not to be included. Corbo was in the mix early in the season, when CF wasn't doing so well (not his fault). But CFM has been on a tear as of late, so why would they start experimenting now? Don't try to fix something that isn't broken i guess. Waterman and Camacho have shown serious flaws in their games, but overall they're delivering and winning, so they'll keep playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I feel Herdman has specific qualities he looks for in his team/players. Perhaps a kind of Myers-Briggs type test for specific traits and personalites for certain positions? Some guys just aren't on his list, and others are. Most obvious examples on both sides of the fence being Cornelius and James vs Fraser and Brym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 2:27 PM, Corazon said: Same goes for players like Piette who has started just once this season. There are more deserving Canadian midfielders on his own team that deserve a call over him. I’d argue even some of the TFC players. Situation with Piette is special. Two things come into play with him: 1- Wanyama is in his way. Wanyama is still a beast, we're not talking about a washed up Bradley here. 2- Piette was injured for 2-3 months early in the season. That's the main reason he wasn't playing. He's been getting minutes since he came back. Corazon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: By that logic, shouldn’t we also not be calling Miller and Johnston as CBs because they brought back Camacho instead of playing them there? Many of our players have flaws. They’re easy to point out but I can’t think of many other players, if any, we have that hadn’t received a cap after 50+ matches for a decent MLS side or similar level. Particularly in a position of need for us. It seems to take some players less than a handful of games to get a look For the NT Miller and Johnston play LCB and RCB respectively. I can't remember either one playing CB for the NT or for CFM. CFM picked up Johnston in the off season. If they thought Waterman was a great fit for CB they would have played Johnston as a RCB and Waterman at CB. They could have saved themselves the hundreds of thousands they're paying Camacho. But they didn't do that. Waterman as a CB isn't NT level YET and I'm a CFM supporter. Edited May 31, 2022 by Sal333 costarg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, Francois79 said: Waterman isn't world class, but today's Waterman is a more than capable option for both Montreal and Canada. You can say they brought Camacho back, but you can also say they are sitting Corbo on the bench because they prefer Waterman, that's a strong statement in favor of Waterman. I really can't see a logical reason for him not to be included. Huh? Corbo has hardly played for CFM. So you're telling me because Waterman is better than a player who is a bench warmer then he should be on the NT? Jeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sal333 said: For the NT Miller and Johnston play LCB and RCB respectively. I can't remember either one playing CB for the NT or for CFM. CFM picked up Johnston in the off season. If they thought Waterman was a great fit for CB they would have played Johnston as a RCB and Waterman at CB. They could have saved themselves the hundreds of thousands they're paying Camacho. But they didn't do that. Waterman as a CB isn't NT level and I'm a CFM supporter. Admittedly I haven't followed Montreal closely, but I just don't understand your logic why Waterman couldn't be a fit for a CB position on the right side. It seems he's retained that spot over Johnston at club level, but he could even serve as his backup. Regardless, Miller has frequently played as the central CB in a 3 back system when Canada has played it. Mexico, Haiti, Panama (our last game played), off the top of my head. I'd hazard he's played that position more than any of our other CBs, yet he doesn't play there for Montreal. Johnston has played several positions for Canada including RB, RM and on the left side of defense. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Sal333 said: For the NT Miller and Johnston play LCB and RCB respectively. I can't remember either one playing CB for the NT or for CFM. CFM picked up Johnston in the off season. If they thought Waterman was a great fit for CB they would have played Johnston as a RCB and Waterman at CB. They could have saved themselves the hundreds of thousands they're paying Camacho. But they didn't do that. Waterman as a CB isn't NT level YET and I'm a CFM supporter. He was called into the last NT window, so if he's not NT level yet he must be pretty close, at least according to Herdman. Ruud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois79 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 26 minutes ago, Sal333 said: Huh? Corbo has hardly played for CFM. So you're telling me because Waterman is better than a player who is a bench warmer then he should be on the NT? Jeeze. No, what I'm saying is Corbo was brought in to be in the starting 11, but he hasn't played much because Waterman has been better. Base on current form, yes, he should be on the NT, at least ahead of Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Sal333 said: Huh? Corbo has hardly played for CFM. So you're telling me because Waterman is better than a player who is a bench warmer then he should be on the NT? Jeeze. Quite the opposite. I don't feel Waterman is at NT level. I'm saying Waterman is still starting for CFM because they're winning. Personally I feel CFM would be stronger with ZBG at RWB and Johnston at RCB, and Waterman on the bench. Edited May 31, 2022 by costarg Corazon and Sal333 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, costarg said: Quite the opposite. I don't feel Waterman is at NT level. I'm saying Waterman is still starting for CFM because they're winning. Personally I feel CFM would be stronger with ZBG and RWB and Johnston at RCB, and Waterman on the bench. Totally agree with you. An Observer and Corazon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopePouri Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, costarg said: Quite the opposite. I don't feel Waterman is at NT level. I'm saying Waterman is still starting for CFM because they're winning. Personally I feel CFM would be stronger with ZBG and RWB and Johnston at RCB, and Waterman on the bench. This is how I feel as well. He does well within the system of CFM because he has defensive insurance with Miller and Camacho, and his ability on the ball can be weaponized. But he has too many shortcomings in a 4 man backline and that restricts Herdman's squad flexibility. He doesn't win his duels, he's not great in the air and not athletic enough. Basically you could only play Henry as a partner and anyone else would make us either vulnerable on set pieces or in behind. I'd also say that this year his form has dipped even though he's scored a bunch of goals. CFM has only conceded one goal less than TFC up until now. Edited May 31, 2022 by PopePouri Corazon and red card 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 44 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Regardless, Miller has frequently played as the central CB in a 3 back system when Canada has played it. Mexico, Haiti, Panama (our last game played), off the top of my head. I'd hazard he's played that position more than any of our other CBs, yet he doesn't play there for Montreal. Are you sure about this? I don't ever recall Miller playing centrally in a back 3. Perhaps you meant in a back 4? El Diego, Sal333 and An Observer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, Kadenge said: Are you sure about this? I don't ever recall Miller playing centrally in a back 3. Perhaps you meant in a back 4? Miller has never played in the middle of a back 3 for us, and he's only done so for Montreal on a single occasion (that I am aware of). Sal333, johnyb and Kadenge 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kadenge said: Are you sure about this? I don't ever recall Miller playing centrally in a back 3. Perhaps you meant in a back 4? I remember looking through Transfermarkt a while back, and that's where they placed him. They certainly get things wrong though, and it makes more sense that he'd play wide of Vitoria or Hutchinson. Edited May 31, 2022 by Aird25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Just now, Aird25 said: I remember looking through Transfermarkt a while back, and that's where they placed him. They certainly get things wrong though, and it makes more sense that he'd play wide of Vitoria. Are you sure you were filtering for his Canada games and not his club games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 How about we put Waterman into the pecking order eh?? Who is in front of him who could play CB (lets say in a back 4), not wingback or FB... for Canada?? Vitoria, Henry, Cornelius, Kennedy, prob Miller...?? I am worried Vitoria is on his last legs (not everyone is Atiba), plenty of posters on here think you cant trust Henry not to give up a red or penalty and he hasnt been playing much. Is Kennedy still hurt? And does Cornelius playing in Greece trump Waterman playing in MLS?? I know you guys dont think he is ready and he has flaws in his game (who doesnt?), but is he the next guy in line? If he isnt who should we be working into the lineup? Francois79 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Obinna said: Are you sure you were filtering for his Canada games and not his club games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I dont think thats how they lined up though..wasnt Johnston on the RCB, Miller on the LCB and Hutch at CB?? Obinna, An Observer, Sal333 and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bison44 said: How about we put Waterman into the pecking order eh?? Who is in front of him who could play CB (lets say in a back 4), not wingback or FB... for Canada?? Vitoria, Henry, Cornelius, Kennedy, prob Miller...?? I am worried Vitoria is on his last legs (not everyone is Atiba), plenty of posters on here think you cant trust Henry not to give up a red or penalty and he hasnt been playing much. Is Kennedy still hurt? And does Cornelius playing in Greece trump Waterman playing in MLS?? I know you guys dont think he is ready and he has flaws in his game (who doesnt?), but is he the next guy in line? If he isnt who should we be working into the lineup? Kennedy is part of our current selection and played in the last games of the season, so he's healthy. To your question about Waterman in the depth chart, I will consider just the right footed CBs: Vitoria Henry Waterman McNaughton Everyone else (names like Yao, Dunn, Didic, Halbouni and Sturing come to mind, though I don't see any of them breaking in until they play at a higher level). I will say this however, Henry's fitness concerns me. When he's in the middle of a back 3 he can be excellent, but he's struggled with injuries his whole career. This is why I want us to start giving Waterman some looks. Sooner or later there'll need to be a transition here and Waterman is the best bet based on his club form and his age. Bison44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I remember that as a flat back four, which the SofaScore heat maps suggest as well. I certainly don't remember Johnston ever playing LCB costarg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I think it was Hutchinson in the middle and Miller and Johnston to either side of him. Edit: Went to the match replay on One Soccer. It was indeed a back 3 with Kamal at LCB. Edited May 31, 2022 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1973 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 This guy has been rock solid all season and keeps getting better. He needs a serious look in September camp. Another solid performance tonight. Corazon, cronaldo7, Aird25 and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgewater17 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) CALL THIS MAN UP!!! https://www.instagram.com/p/Cg0nbo_o8MO/?hl=en Incroyable! Edited August 4, 2022 by Edgewater17 cronaldo7, Corazon, MauditYvon and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Great goal to get the result. But I have to ask what he was doing that far up the field lol. It’s not like they had to risk it all for a win. trc2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: Great goal to get the result. But I have to ask what he was doing that far up the field lol. It’s not like they had to risk it all for a win. Guessing they had a corner or free kick right before? P-O and Edgewater17 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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