Herdman new head coach

[MrR]

Herdman's record - 7 defeats in big matches

1) 29-06-2019 versus Haiti 2-3 Gold Cup quarter-final

2) 15-11-2019 versus USA 1-4 Nations League

3) 29-07-2021 versus Mexico 1-2 Gold Cup semi-final

4) 23-11-2022 versus Belgium 0-1 World Cup

5) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia 1-4 World Cup

6) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco 1-2 World Cup

7) 18-06-2023 versus USA 0-2 Nations League Final

 

[maplebanana]

19 minutes ago, MrR said:

Herdman's record - 7 defeats in big matches

1) 29-06-2019 versus Haiti 2-3 Gold Cup quarter-final

2) 15-11-2019 versus USA 1-4 Nations League

3) 29-07-2021 versus Mexico 1-2 Gold Cup semi-final

4) 23-11-2022 versus Belgium 0-1 World Cup

5) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia 1-4 World Cup

6) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco 1-2 World Cup

7) 18-06-2023 versus USA 0-2 Nations League Final

 

Did you seriously just yada yada all of WCQ to support your lopsided point? 
 

Herdman deserves criticism for his performance of late, but selectively highlighting only losses and claiming that a man who has never coached soccer before should replace him is completely asinine. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

28 minutes ago, MrR said:

Herdman's record - 7 defeats in big matches

1) 29-06-2019 versus Haiti 2-3 Gold Cup quarter-final

2) 15-11-2019 versus USA 1-4 Nations League

3) 29-07-2021 versus Mexico 1-2 Gold Cup semi-final

4) 23-11-2022 versus Belgium 0-1 World Cup

5) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia 1-4 World Cup

6) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco 1-2 World Cup

7) 18-06-2023 versus USA 0-2 Nations League Final

 

He's gone from losing in quarters, to semis, to a final. From losing to teams below us to teams above us.

Just one of the losses is to a team below us in ranking.

I think he could do a lot better, because we need to punch above our weight. It's the next step.

Btw watched Croatia in Nations League the other night, a team that has never won anything.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

17 hours ago, Cadeau said:

...Herdman's shine has worn off since qualifying.

His failure to make the necessary tactical adjustments in midfield in the first half against Croatia can't have gone unnoticed amongst the people directly involved and likely dented confidence in his decision making.

Would probably have been better for both parties if he had exited when the New Zealand media was reporting he was angling for their national team job but at this point given the CSA's financial crisis he's probably too expensive to get rid of regardless of what unfolds in the Gold Cup.

He'll be able to spin it as an exercise in testing out the depth to the roster and building for the future if things head south in a big way, which hopefully won't happen given some of the other teams likely are doing much the same thing with this tournament.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Colonel Green]

5 hours ago, MrR said:

Herdman's record - 7 defeats in big matches

1) 29-06-2019 versus Haiti 2-3 Gold Cup quarter-final

2) 15-11-2019 versus USA 1-4 Nations League

3) 29-07-2021 versus Mexico 1-2 Gold Cup semi-final

4) 23-11-2022 versus Belgium 0-1 World Cup

5) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia 1-4 World Cup

6) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco 1-2 World Cup

7) 18-06-2023 versus USA 0-2 Nations League Final

 

If quarter- and semi-final losses count as big matches, why don’t the quarter- and semi-final wins?

[MrR]

Herdman's record - 4 victories in other matches

1) 25-03-2021 versus Bermuda 5-1 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

2) 29-03-2021 versus Cayman Islands 11-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

3) 05-06-2021 versus Aruba 7-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

4) 08-06-2021 versus Surinam 4-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

[Kadenge]

🙄 Robert is back 

[MrR]

Following a 23-year drought, there has recently been a lot of talk about the CMNT winning some silverware, Since John Herdman took charge of the CMNT, Canada has competed in 5 tournaments, 2 Gold Cups, 2 Nations Leagues, and 1 World Cup. The point of the first list is to show where these campaigns for silverware fell short.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, MrR said:

Following a 23-year drought, there has recently been a lot of talk about the CMNT winning some silverware, Since John Herdman took charge of the CMNT, Canada has competed in 5 tournaments, 2 Gold Cups, 2 Nations Leagues, and 1 World Cup. The point of the first list is to show where these campaigns for silverware fell short.

I agree, not winning the World Cup was definitely a case of "falling short".

[shorty]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

🙄 Robert is back 

I would agree, but the posts aren't cut and paste from Wikipedia in giant font and there's no mention of the CSA or Mont Pete or towrads or a Dutch coach to replace JH.

I would also speculate on the return of Mister215 (obvious connection in name) but the focus isn't "Canada is way better than the USA" and there isn't a thinly veiled reference to Pennsylvania in the username (PhillyJawnGuy, etc)

We may be witnessing a brand new troll, as yet undocumented.  Exciting discovery.

[RS]

3 hours ago, MrR said:

Herdman's record - 4 victories in other matches

1) 25-03-2021 versus Bermuda 5-1 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

2) 29-03-2021 versus Cayman Islands 11-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

3) 05-06-2021 versus Aruba 7-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

4) 08-06-2021 versus Surinam 4-0 CONCACAF World Cup qualification

It's crazy how Canada somehow managed to qualify for the World Cup by only beating these minnows.

[Bison44]

Searching for trolls in their natural habitat....message boards.

[shermanator]

How did that fucking crack head Robert get back in here? 

[Obinna]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

If we lose to Mexico, then we haven't improved or progressed from a few years ago. At that point I think the outrage and cynicism would be warrented. Small steps in the right direction are progress. 

Reconsidering this take after seeing the Mexican squad. Seems to be the exact same team as the NL squad, which on paper is the best team in the tournament.

Based on TM values the squad strengths are:

1. Mexico
2. USA
3. Jamaica
4. Canada
5. everyone else

Should be noted that we are a distant 4th, while Jamaica and USA are roughly equal. Then, there is a very big gap on paper between Mexico and USA/Jamaica. 

If Herdman and co. win this thing, it's a massive underdog achievement. Hell, we could probably benefit from the underdog label at this point. Our come up has been so meteoric that even our mainstrem sports media has been critical of our performance in a regional final. That's a massive shift in expectations. 

All things considered, I am sadly thinking a SF is success, much as people may not want to hear that. Mexico is clearly dead set on winning this, Jamaica has 5 EPL players (6 if you include Luton's Amari Bell), and the USA are the defending champion that arguably has a better squad than the last one which lifted the trophy. 

Canada brings their "A" level GKs and Defenders, an A minus midfield, and for me a B minus attack. Tempted to even call it a C attack, but that's probably an overreaction. Either way though, we are underdogs. 

[johnyb]

14 hours ago, MrR said:

September 2, 2017. Jamaica. BMO. Pre-Herdman. That's right. Zero friendlies in Canada since Herdman was appointed head coach.

Other reasons are the addition of Nations league and Covid.

[dyslexic nam]

17 minutes ago, johnyb said:

Other reasons are the addition of Nations league and Covid.

Yeah, seems a bit disingenuous to ignore the worst pandemic in modern history.  

[Stryker911]

How does Herdman complain about a lack of prep, butbthen allow all of the MLS guys to leave and play last night. Assuming they all fly back to Toronto today, you are back to the same 3 or 4 slays of prep for Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Guadeloupe has been together since June 10. The flew to Toronto yesterday, so by game time they will have 2 and a half weeks together. 

This is probably old, pessimist fan coming out, but I have very low expectations for this game.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

How does Herdman complain about a lack of prep, butbthen allow all of the MLS guys to leave and play last night. Assuming they all fly back to Toronto today, you are back to the same 3 or 4 slays of prep for Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Guadeloupe has been together since June 10. The flew to Toronto yesterday, so by game time they will have 2 and a half weeks together. 

This is probably old, pessimist fan coming out, but I have very low expectations for this game.

I wanted to complain about this too but I wonder if it is another cost saving method 

[TGAA_Star]

I wonder why none of these former Canada players don't throw their names into the hat to become Canada manager after Herdman?

[TOcanadafan]

On 6/21/2023 at 1:36 AM, MrR said:

Curacao + Honduras

I thought they had an excellent game against Honduras.  They were combining well in the final 3rd and consistently breaking down the Honduran ‘low block’… that’s why I was so disappointed with the lack of anything against the US when they bunkered down in the 2nd half.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Been a very busy few days for me - finishing buying a house and settling in a place in Canada I thought I would never live -  and a suprisingly depressing time as well - given that game.  

But trying to take some perspective on Herdman after that time. 

The game Sunday obviously dominates that. 

The debates about how we started are smaller for me.  At some point you need to look beyond Vitoria and the lack of pace, so I understand the defence.  The rest of formation seemed the best we had.  There were players that didn't perform but then there were some seeming panic shifts.  I support a club whose manager seems in absolute dread of making any changes in-game, so proactive and even reactive adjustments are welcome but these did not feel like that. 

I said we needed players and our coach to mature after decisions made at the World Cup, tactically it initially felt that way and went a bit pear-shaped as the game progressed.  Media-wise, not great but maybe the years, the political situation surrounding, and hitting a (maybe percieved) wall is wearing on Herdman.  His candour has been appreciated through a lot of his tenure; I guess, what is the balance now?

How does he approach the Gold Cup? He can go with the best he has available (which thankfully is a lot better than it would be even a few years ago, to be fair in part due to Herdman, himself) and try to win as much as we can for some kind of momentum. Or he can really just look ahead and blood and cap-tie for the future.   I said before, winning anything, even things others trully or pretend not to value that much, still feels great as a team and as supporters. I probably go with the former. But I guess how do we use the Gold Cup to judge his continuing fitness in the role then?

But to Herdman's job itself, in the back of my mind is the practicality of resisting the grass is always greener idea.  Who do we get who is better, even if we have had a less than perfect year.  And is there still room for Herdman (and Davies and company) grow mentally after initially success on talent and togetherness?

Apparently a lot more questions than answers even after a few days.  

Edited June 22, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Been a very busy few days for me - finishing buying a house and settling in a place in Canada I thought I would never live -  and a suprisingly depressing time as well - given that game.  

But trying to take some perspective on Herdman after that time. 

The game Sunday obviously dominates that. 

The debates about how we started are smaller for me.  At some point you need to look beyond Vitoria and the lack of pace, so I understand the defence.  The rest of formation seemed the best we had.  There were players that didn't perform but then there were some seeming panic shifts.  I support a club whose manager seems in absolute dread of making any changes in-game, so proactive and even reactive adjustments are welcome but these did not feel like that. 

I said we needed players and our coach to mature after decisions made at the World Cup, tactically it initially felt that way and went a bit pear-shaped as the game progressed.  Media-wise, not great but maybe the years, the political situation surrounding, and hitting a (maybe percieved) wall is wearing on Herdman.  His candour has been appreciated through a lot of his tenure; I guess, what is the balance now?

How does he approach the Gold Cup? He can go with the best he has available (which thankfully is a lot better than it would be even a few years ago, to be fair in part due to Herdman, himself) and try to win as much as we can for some kind of momentum. Or he can really just look ahead and blood and cap-tie for the future.   I said before, winning anything, even things others trully or pretend not to value that much, still feels great as a team and as supporters. I probably go with the former. But I guess how do we use the Gold Cup to judge his continuing fitness in the role then?

But to Herdman's job itself, in the back of my mind is the practicality of resisting the grass is always greener idea.  Who do we get who is better, even if we have had a less than perfect year.  And is there still room for Herdman (and Davies and company) grow mentally after initially success on talent and togetherness?

Apparently a lot more questions than answers even after a few days.  

The main question being (and I think we'll all agree) where did you move to?

Or: hope the grass really is greener 😇

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think the latest Rick Westhead article shows that John Herdman isn't actually at odds with the revamped CSA leadership:

https://www.tsn.ca/westhead-interim-general-secretary-jason-devos-paints-grim-picture-of-canada-soccer-s-finances-1.1977583

... “We brought a World Cup to our country and we’re not serious about winning it,” Herdman said. “We’ve got to get real, and quick… It's not a secret the organization has been suffering financially. Even through the World Cup qualification and your head coach is raising money to make sure we've got charter flights [and] security on those charter flights. We've the best generation of players we've had and there's more coming. You can see it… We've got to figure this out financially."

deVos said he supports Herdman’s position.

“John and I are very much aligned here,” deVos said. “You saw in World Cup qualifying what the men did. They did that because of John's leadership, bringing that whole group together. And we had the same preparation time as all the other teams. And so, when John says last Sunday that the lack of preparation hurts, it absolutely does. ...

Jason Devos didn't need to say that last bit, if he didn't agree with it.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[canuckgbp]

 

[Kadenge]

35 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

 

Some interesting comments from JH re Bombito. He may be deployed in a different position than his usual CB. And high praise for Ahmed, so he may feature quite prominently. Herdman is supportive of JDV. Sounds much more conciliatory...in this together theme vs us /them.