Herdman new head coach

[DeRo_Is_King]

Just now, gator said:

Agree but with our financial situation that might be easier said than done and you know damn well Herdman knows this too !

Sadly, you are right. It's a dangerous spot for this team to be in, because if the coach isn't held accountable, there's less incentive to improve. 

[Kadenge]

I know I asked this before but is Eric Tenllado still on the coaching team? He was very prominent during WCQ next to JH dishing out tactical advice . Haven't seen him at field level in the past 2 games.

[cronaldo7]

25 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I know I asked this before but is Eric Tenllado still on the coaching team? He was very prominent during WCQ next to JH dishing out tactical advice . Haven't seen him at field level in the past 2 games.

I believe I saw him on the sideline during the Guatemala match.

[MrR]

Why is it that a national soccer association like the Federación Nacional de Fútbol de Guatemala can arrange 4 friendlies for its men's national team in the month of June to prepare for the Gold Cup, while the Canadian Soccer Association is financially unable to arrange friendlies for any of this year's remaining windows?

Why is it that passionate Guatemalan soccer fans can fill a 22,000-seat stadium in Houston, Texas, while there were only a sprinkling of Canadian soccer fans in the stands?

Why is it that the Canadian Soccer Association finds itself in such dire straits that it can't afford to replace a national team coach when such action is required?

How did we get to this point?

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 minute ago, MrR said:

Why is it that a national soccer association like the Federación Nacional de Fútbol de Guatemala can arrange 4 friendlies for its men's national team in the month of June to prepare for the Gold Cup, while the Canadian Soccer Association is financially unable to arrange friendlies for any of this year's remaining windows?

Why is it that passionate Guatemalan soccer fans can fill a 22,000-seat stadium in Houston, Texas, while there were only a sprinkling of Canadian soccer fans in the stands?

Why is it that the Canadian Soccer Association finds itself in such dire straits that it can't afford to replace a national team coach when such action is required?

How did we get to this point?

All very valid questions. 

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, toontownman said:

He in fact clearly does have admirers there and was offered the job but reportedly turned it down. He did officially reaffirm his commitment to CMNT though and I think he would be crazy to go elsewhere with 2026 guaranteed. I dont see him getting a better gig. 

The honeymoon period is over however. This is where we find out if he has what it takes to be an elite coach and turn things around.

I said it post WC and I'll reiterate it: I think the 2024 Copa is the deciding point.  Assuming they qualify (and right now, that seems less of a sure thing than it did even post-WC), it's going to be his best opportunity for him to show what he/the team can do in bigger tournaments vs better teams.  And 2 years would still give a new manager time to work with before the WC.

[narduch]

The way we are playing now we will get embarrassed at Copa America

[king1010]

15 minutes ago, MrR said:

 

Why is it that passionate Guatemalan soccer fans can fill a 22,000-seat stadium in Houston, Texas, while there were only a sprinkling of Canadian soccer fans in the stands?

 

Immigration? 

[BearcatSA]

9 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Immigration? 

Wall not finished yet?

[Watchmen]

24 minutes ago, narduch said:

The way we are playing now we will get embarrassed at Copa America

Yes. But that would be the final straw.

[BigMo]

35 minutes ago, MrR said:

Why is it that a national soccer association like the Federación Nacional de Fútbol de Guatemala can arrange 4 friendlies for its men's national team in the month of June to prepare for the Gold Cup, while the Canadian Soccer Association is financially unable to arrange friendlies for any of this year's remaining windows?

Why is it that passionate Guatemalan soccer fans can fill a 22,000-seat stadium in Houston, Texas, while there were only a sprinkling of Canadian soccer fans in the stands?

Why is it that the Canadian Soccer Association finds itself in such dire straits that it can't afford to replace a national team coach when such action is required?

How did we get to this point?

Agree with all your points except the Houston fan turnout.  There are tens and thousands of Guatemalans in Texas, and a good number in surrounding states within driving distance. Far less Canadian expats in Texas and even less so which are hardcore enough to care about the Gold Cup.  No surprise at all about any of this.

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Yes. But that would be the final straw.

But Herdman has a big straw..

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 minute ago, Kadenge said:

But Herdman has a big straw..

True. When the stakes were low, he could mess up and no one would care since nothing was expected of us. Now that we've had some success and must improve before 2026, there is more scrutiny. 

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

But Herdman has a big straw..

Certainly, and he's earned it.  Topping qualifying and get the team back to the WC for the first time in 36 years will do that.  The result at the WC was disappointing.  I've been hoping to see that he's learned from the experience, just like the players would have.  That's what makes the Nations League final so disappointing, not just the loss but the way they played.  And the results at this Gold Cup are poor not because it's 2 draws but because they've played so poorly in them.  Herdman is getting his chance to step up, and so far really hasn't.

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

But Herdman has a big straw..

Makes it easier to drink the Kool-Aid.  

[Canuckia]

18 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

True. When the stakes were low, he could mess up and no one would care since nothing was expected of us. Now that we've had some success and must improve before 2026, there is more scrutiny. 

[sose]

55 minutes ago, narduch said:

The way we are playing now we will get embarrassed at Copa America

will we even qualify for Copa ??? don't we still have to win a match in NL to qualify? I assume he will have to bring in all of the heavy hitters (Davies, David, Larin, Tajon, Step etc)?

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, sose said:

will we even qualify for Copa ??? don't we still have to win a match in NL to qualify? I assume he will have to bring in all of the heavy hitters (Davies, David, Larin, Tajon, Step etc)?

For sure we will be playing our best 11 available for the games that will qualify us for Copa.  We knew what the GC was going to look like when the roster was announced but it will have no impact on how we approach the path to the Copa. 

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, sose said:

will we even qualify for Copa ??? don't we still have to win a match in NL to qualify? I assume he will have to bring in all of the heavy hitters (Davies, David, Larin, Tajon, Step etc)?

I've considered that.

But I think our full strength team should be able to do it. 

The matches are in November by the way

[canuckgbp]

Something I can’t shake, is that I worry Herdman is going to ride these older players until they themselves hang them up. 
 

Fall friendlies up in the air. Copa America qualifying is through the next Nations League, which for us start this Sept and Oct I believe. 
 

Assuming we reach the later stages, that would be in March 2024. 
 

The problem with Nations league is that have seemingly replaced international friendlies? So we never really have a good opportunity to test out newer blood. 

Normally I would trust Herdman, but some of these GC selections have been somewhat puzzling. Especially the in game subs and timing. 

We want our strongest teams at these tournaments, but we also have to have an eye to 2026. 
 

Some current key pieces in 2026 

Borjan (38)

Vitoria (39)

Osorio (34)

Hoilett (36)

 

Assume we secure a Copa spot, that’s June 2024. I just don’t see a graceful way for Herdman to move on from these players. 
 

I’m waiting for that restart, where old brotherhood is fine but we need to be pragmatic. We have serious questions ahead, not only in terms of the x11, but also depth (as we are finding out in this GC)

 

Some of these “A” players aren’t covering themselves in glory this GC, including bf Vitoria, Miller, Osorio, and to a lesser extent Borjan. 
 

If this core stays until Copa 2024, is the next 2 years enough time to get ready for 2026? Seems like we have no choice. 
 

I think what is bothering me is the you have to play your best at all these tournaments. I agree, but what is our best? Think that’s why I am so disappointed in this GC so far, it’s the vets laying an egg.
 

Sorry for the rant. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by canuckgbp

[Bison44]

2 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Something I can’t shake, is that I worry Herdman is going to ride these older players until they themselves hang them up. 

The only thing about that is he had no problem throwing Kone, Bombito and Ahmed right into the fire after they started to emerge at their clubs.  So we know he will do it, if he has the right player.  And we arent Mexico or Italy where there is a new crop of teenagers breaking out at all positions every year, so we have to be patient.  If that Morris committed, Fraser would never get called again and Piette would prob be done also. Youngish Keepers and CB are on the way, we need better options for Oso and Hoilett to develop at thier clubs.  

[BearcatSA]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The only thing about that is he had no problem throwing Kone, Bombito and Ahmed right into the fire after they started to emerge at their clubs.  So we know he will do it, if he has the right player.

Bombito has that "it" factor for Herdman that he doesn't see in the likes of Waterman or MacNaughton.  He didn't see it with Choiniere for the original call up, agree or disagree, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

[canuckgbp]

4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The only thing about that is he had no problem throwing Kone, Bombito and Ahmed right into the fire after they started to emerge at their clubs.  So we know he will do it, if he has the right player.  And we arent Mexico or Italy where there is a new crop of teenagers breaking out at all positions every year, so we have to be patient.  If that Morris committed, Fraser would never get called again and Piette would prob be done also. Youngish Keepers and CB are on the way, we need better options for Oso and Hoilett to develop at thier clubs.  

True. But then I see Wotherspoon getting the call (and minutes last night) and it just seems odd. Wouldn’t putting Nelson make more sense?

The World Cup roster had their moment and I think we just have to move on. 
 

The other issue I see is 2025 and 2026 will mostly be friendlies since we don’t have to qualify? I guess a GC as well. Not sure how much of the next crop will have meaningful experience. 
 

He called everyone he could from the Nations League roster. And those players are playing poorly. Ultimately this may be a good thing for Herdman to see when thinking about future squad selections. 

[Watchmen]

19 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Copa America qualifying is through the next Nations League, which for us start this Sept and Oct I believe. 

Canada avoided the first round, so for us it doesn't start until November.  We avoid playing the US/Mexico/Costa Rica.  Qualifying for the Copa is just a matter of winning this round (though there's 2 more spots available after that). Right now I think we'd want to avoid Panama (even with a full strength team) but otherwise there's no one a full strength *should* be concerned with.  But we'll see.

[SpursFlu]

23 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Something I can’t shake, is that I worry Herdman is going to ride these older players until they themselves hang them up. 
 

Fall friendlies up in the air. Copa America qualifying is through the next Nations League, which for us start this Sept and Oct I believe. 
 

Assuming we reach the later stages, that would be in March 2024. 
 

The problem with Nations league is that have seemingly replaced international friendlies? So we never really have a good opportunity to test out newer blood. 

Normally I would trust Herdman, but some of these GC selections have been somewhat puzzling. Especially the in game subs and timing. 

We want our strongest teams at these tournaments, but we also have to have an eye to 2026. 
 

Some current key pieces in 2026 

Borjan (38)

Vitoria (39)

Osorio (35)

Hoilett (36)

 

Assume we secure a Copa spot, that’s June 2024. I just don’t see a graceful way for Herdman to move on from these players. 
 

I’m waiting for that restart, where old brotherhood is fine but we need to be pragmatic. We have serious questions ahead, not only in terms of the x11, but also depth (as we are finding out in this GC)

 

Some of these “A” players aren’t covering themselves in glory this GC, including bf Vitoria, Miller, Osorio, and to a lesser extent Borjan. 
 

If this core stays until Copa 2024, is the next 2 years enough time to get ready for 2026? Seems like we have no choice. 
 

I think what is bothering me is the you have to play your best at all these tournaments. I agree, but what is our best? Think that’s why I am so disappointed in this GC so far, it’s the vets laying an egg.
 

Sorry for the rant. 

I kinda agree.. I thought after the last World Cup a handful of guys were done. I appreciate them and I think as of today they're still worthy of being on the team but I just see these things in a 4 year cycle