Herdman new head coach

[king1010]

32 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

If his contact continues to pay him after being fired, which is bizarre, would the CSA be able to afford another "new" coach (as opposed to an already employed staff coach)?

Most pro club coaches are still owed the remainder of their contract after being fired. 

[SpursFlu]

53 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

If his contact continues to pay him after being fired, which is bizarre, would the CSA be able to afford another "new" coach (as opposed to an already employed staff coach)?

I would love for some clarity if anyone has an idea?

I would think it was a guaranteed contract but im not sure

[Kent]

Has anyone ever been called up to the Canadian national hockey team for "development"? I would say, no. Granted, I feel like there are less tactics in hockey than in soccer, it's a bit more plug and play (but not as much as baseball for example) but still, the national team should be reserved for the best in the country, with possibly the occasional exception.

Someone mentioned that this is an experimental or development tournament. It's the continental championship! Sure, there were some things that pushed us in this direction of experimentation (Nations League happening right before) but the reason it is experimental is seemingly down to John Herdman. Plenty of people at the start of the year were saying we should really be aiming for a trophy this year, either Nations League or Gold Cup. We didn't get a trophy in Nations League, and now we all of a sudden don't care at all about results in the Gold Cup?

As for the attitude that you can't say a manager should be fired without giving possible replacements. I get where that is coming from, but at the same time, when is this ever done? TFC fans were saying "Bradley out". They weren't saying "Bradley out and I actually think Terry Dunfield should be given a chance to coach the team". This is true around the world. When Arsenal fans were asking for Wenger to be fired, they weren't necessarily coming up with answers of who would be better. When people wanted Floro gone they didn't necessarily have another name in mind.

I'm not saying he should definitely be fired if we lose convincingly in the quarter final (or earlier), but it's not crazy to entertain that idea.

Since we qualified for the World Cup.
Canada 0 Panama 1 - L
Canada 4 Curacao 0 - W
Canada 1 Honduras 2 - L
Canada 2 Qatar 0 - W
Canada 0 Uruguay 2 - L
Canada 2 Bahrain 2 - D
Canada 2 Japan 1 - W
Canada 0 Belgium 1 - L
Canada 1 Croatia 4 - L
Canada 1 Morocco 2 - L
Canada 2 Curacao 0 - W
Canada 4 Honduras 1 - W
Canada 2 Panama 0 - W
Canada 0 USA 2 - L
Canada 2 Guadeloupe 2 - D

Record, 6 wins, 2 draws, 7 losses

Our only upset on the positive side was beating Japan. Our upsets on the negative side were losing to Honduras (only slightly, since they were at home), possibly drawing Bahrain, and drawing Guadeloupe.

Not terrible, but not great either.

[Bison44]

Well having our 5 best players skip the tournie kind of made it experimental, took that decision right out of our hands. The americans have won won with a B team, and it prob strengthens their program giving more players top flight INT experience.  If we can integrate newcomers Ahmed, McGraw, Bombito, Loturi into the framework of the main squad thats left then we'll be in a better position in the future.  Winning was a tall order and damn near impossible without Staq, D+D, Larin, Kone, Jonhnston etc, make some lemonade with whats left.   

[BearcatSA]

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Well having our 5 best players skip the tournie kind of made it experimental, took that decision right out of our hands. The americans have won won with a B team, and it prob strengthens their program giving more players top flight INT experience.  If we can integrate newcomers Ahmed, McGraw, Bombito, Loturi into the framework of the main squad thats left then we'll be in a better position in the future.  Winning was a tall order and damn near impossible without Staq, D+D, Larin, Kone, Jonhnston etc, make some lemonade with whats left.   

I am of a similar opinion as you.  We are getting some new caps out of this and to me, that's good to see.  However, if you aspire to solidify your status in the top echelon of this confederation, you need to make a statement with the guys you have available.

Not sure what to expect in the next two matches but I strongly believe if our key incumbents are hitting on all cylinders (which they weren't in the first match), then we get through to knockout where anything can happen.  I am looking more at individual player performances to see how they step up as the tourney progresses.

[MrR]

I don't ever recall hearing a CMNT being booed after a match played in Canada. What caused so many of the 15,301 in attendance at BMO to voice their disapproval like that?

[kacbru]

A draw vs. Guadeloupe? 

[h coach]

52 minutes ago, MrR said:

I don't ever recall hearing a CMNT being booed after a match played in Canada. What caused so many of the 15,301 in attendance at BMO to voice their disapproval like that?

My impression being there, was that we were booing the ref for blowing the whistle when we were pressing for another goal, also there was a “ref you suck chant” after the overturned penalty decision.  I think there was some frustration we were scored on in the last few minutes. There were lots of people that stayed and were cheering for the team when they came on to the field after the game. I was very surprised that there were comments about the team being booed off the field. Maybe some peoople were, but not many. Also what was encouraging, was there were a lot of young kids/families with Canada gear and most fans were pro-Canadian and a fairly entertaining game. I have been to Canada matches in Ontario/Quebec for 45+ years and sense there is a new Canada fan contingent that should only grow with 2026 on the horizon. Looking forward to seeing how Herdman can develop the squad over Gold Cup.

[Kadenge]

I'm more disappointed in the performances of our vets vs Guadeloupe than anything else. They  need to lead by example. We got out worked big time. 2021 GC the players were motivated to secure their spot on the WCQ team and we got a superb performance. Perhaps some of the incumbents are getting  complacent and that's where JH has to step in. I expect a much better effort today and if it's not there changes need to be made at the half. While our depth is getting better the quality gap between our top end players and the rest of our squad is also more pronounced and it's not just D&D. There's probably less balance than there has been in the past and when our top end players are absent it shows. Last game was retro Canada.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, MrR said:

I don't ever recall hearing a CMNT being booed after a match played in Canada. What caused so many of the 15,301 in attendance at BMO to voice their disapproval like that?

I might be remembering wrong, but I think the Canada 0 Puerto Rico 0 game back in 2011 might have ended with boos. I'm not sure though if I am conflating 2011 Canada with 2011 TFC though (which got booed off the field plenty in those dark days).

[gator]

2 hours ago, h coach said:

My impression being there, was that we were booing the ref for blowing the whistle when we were pressing for another goal, also there was a “ref you suck chant” after the overturned penalty decision.  I think there was some frustration we were scored on in the last few minutes. There were lots of people that stayed and were cheering for the team when they came on to the field after the game. I was very surprised that there were comments about the team being booed off the field. Maybe some peoople were, but not many. Also what was encouraging, was there were a lot of young kids/families with Canada gear and most fans were pro-Canadian and a fairly entertaining game. I have been to Canada matches in Ontario/Quebec for 45+ years and sense there is a new Canada fan contingent that should only grow with 2026 on the horizon. Looking forward to seeing how Herdman can develop the squad over Gold Cup.

Yes, I think most of the booing was at the ref, there was some frustration in the stands and there may have been a scattering of boos at the team but being booed off the field is a huge exaggeration IMHO!

[The Real Marc]

I thought the boos were warranted. To give up that goal at the end, to a lesser opponent. Natural reaction

[The Ref]

7 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

I thought the boos were warranted. To give up that goal at the end, to a lesser opponent. Natural reaction

Lesser on paper or stats perhaps, but strong enough on the field.

 

[MrR]

34 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Lesser on paper or stats perhaps, but strong enough on the field.

 

The same might be said of Guatemala. However, los Chapines did play 4 friendlies in June leading up to the Gold Cup, which according to Herdman, doesn't bode well for Canada tonight.

Edited July 1, 2023 by MrR

[BigMo]

Not his finest day. Questionable starting lineup compounded with even more baffling substitutions.

[Vasi]

If he gets fired, anyone think we can get a decent replacement to take us on with all the drama? 

Usually decent coaches will take on a team that will host a WC. But our problem is that we have no money to invest in programs leading up to the tournament. Usually hosts spend money. We are bankrupt. 

[toontownman]

15 minutes ago, BigMo said:

Not his finest day. Questionable starting lineup compounded with even more baffling substitutions.

He seemed a bit unhinged in the interview to me. Completely OTT positive, even for him.

I get the brotherhood, I get the circumstances with new players and a weaker squad but personally I not only think it's OK to say we didn't play well and can be much better rather than blow smoke up everyone's arses, I think we need and deserve it. Fans aren't stupid. There isn't anyone out there coming away from that game thinking the same, likely including him. I'd just like him to be able to say he made some mistakes. It's OK.

Being overly critical and negative doesn't help either but we can hold ourselves accountable and aim for better not sit there trying to paint rainbows from turds.

Edited July 2, 2023 by toontownman

[The Ref]

The Preacher cannot any longer command his players. 

[sose]

14 minutes ago, Vasi said:

If he gets fired, anyone think we can get a decent replacement to take us on with all the drama? 

Usually decent coaches will take on a team that will host a WC. But our problem is that we have no money to invest in programs leading up to the tournament. Usually hosts spend money. We are bankrupt. 

They can't afford (financially) to fire him.

[toontownman]

3 minutes ago, sose said:

They can't afford (financially) to fire him.

We know he has an escape route back to NZ in the offing. The CSA can put out a statement about how "It's hard to compete with associations like NZ" 

[Colonel Green]

12 minutes ago, toontownman said:

We know he has an escape route back to NZ in the offing. 

He hasn’t, in fact. He has shown no signs he wants to leave.

[toontownman]

19 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

He hasn’t, in fact. He has shown no signs he wants to leave.

He in fact clearly does have admirers there and was offered the job but reportedly turned it down. He did officially reaffirm his commitment to CMNT though and I think he would be crazy to go elsewhere with 2026 guaranteed. I dont see him getting a better gig. 

The honeymoon period is over however. This is where we find out if he has what it takes to be an elite coach and turn things around.

[Bison44]

Well we know he isnt an elite coach.  He is not an x/o guy, god knows his squad management and subs are a complete mystery at times, we havnt been able to get any sort of set piece offense during his tenure. 

He is a very good orginizer/planner and motivator, and right from the start its been pointed out its hard to keep guys highly motivated for long periods of time, ie multiple cycles.  What works with one group in one situation (underdog..us against the world/brotherhood) doesnt work so well when you integrate new players next year.  Guys who might see it as a old boys club they cant break into and the outside world views your program/players more harshly now both at their clubs and with CMNT now that expectations are up.  This gold cup, his best tools are at home, and he cant seem to make anything with what he has available.  in 21 without D+D, Atiba, Vitoria, Borjan and playing Akendele, henry and Crepeau he almost beat mexico.  

[DeRo_Is_King]

I know Herdman generally tries to stay positive after poor results, but saying things like the guys "stuck to the task" and smiling after we just drew a side that could barely beat Cuba makes me wonder how honest he really is with himself. If we draw or lose next game, then it's time to find another coach. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by DeRo_Is_King

[gator]

58 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I know Herdman generally tries to stay positive after poor results, but saying things like the guys "stuck to the task" and smiling after we just drew a side that could barely beat Cuba makes me wonder how honest he really is with himself. If we draw or lose next game, then it's time to find another coach. 

Agree but with our financial situation that might be easier said than done and you know damn well Herdman knows this too !