Herdman new head coach

[youllneverwalkalone]

As much as we'd love a young ball playing defender, I think the GC squad needs another midfielder. I wonder if we see Bombito the Eustaquio role tonight?

[Kadenge]

3 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

As much as we'd love a young ball playing defender, I think the GC squad needs another midfielder. I wonder if we see Bombito the Eustaquio role tonight?

That's what I was thinking or possibly as a FB

[dyslexic nam]

I would rather plug someone else in there and get a look at Bombito in his natural CB role.  He is a big, young, athletic CB and we have plenty of reminders about how we need more quality depth in that area.  I don’t really want us playing Bombito out of position.  

[frmr]

Herdman talking some refreshing sense on the Canada Soccer situation, as usual. I think de Vos is probably the right man to be in charge of Canada Soccer for now as well. It's about time we had people who talk openly and honestly about the the state of the union and the shortcomings that need to be addressed. A refreshing change from sweeping issues under the rug without any accountability on mismanagement.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I will duck and cover now in an admission of not paying attention, but why can't we pick up some matches in Europe in the fall? I thought the travelling side usually had their expenses paid by the host country. I also though Nations League was taking a break over there.

[narduch]

18 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I will duck and cover now in an admission of not paying attention, but why can't we pick up some matches in Europe in the fall? I thought the travelling side usually had their expenses paid by the host country. I also though Nations League was taking a break over there.

There's Euro qualifying now

[Obinna]

Herdman always makes me feel better after watching him speak. Class act with a mission to leave the program better than he found it. Some may question his tactics, but he's the ultimate professional and just oozes integrity - no wonder he's such a great leader. We are lucky to have him. 

NL Rant

I think people have been harsh on his comments post NL defeat, especially the comments about putting in a good performance, but for me he's looking at the game from a different lense - don't know what to call it, a bigger picture view perhaps?

I agree with KJ and others when they disagree with Herdman about the performance, and call it lackluster, uninspired, etc., but I agree with Herdman's interpretation of the game as well. The stats back up his view about the game. We had some good moments, breaking lines and bending without breaking against a USA team that could "run you over" as he put it. As I have said before, it's an away final against a superior (on paper) opponent, in a country we haven't won against at home since 1950-whatever, and against an opponent galvanized by pummelling their biggest rivals, which arguably was emotionally bigger than winning the final against us. Combine that with a lack of prep and the niggles we had and the end result of 2-0 is to be expected, if not a respectable showing from us. I get that nobody wants to call it "respectable", but taking a bigger picture, holistic view of the situation, you can see it that way. It may require you to see it as a neutral though, which I am not sure many people on our side have been doing (understandable).

There is a good reason why the American fans have given us credit for the effort we put up, more than we give ourselves, and that's because they see the bigger picture, or at least are not viewing it from a Canada-centric perspective. 

I don't think he is making excuses. I think he's being realistic about where the program is. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

41 minutes ago, narduch said:

There's Euro qualifying now

Ah, of course. Surely we could play Germany a couple times? They love them some Alphonso Davies.

[Kent]

On 6/27/2023 at 2:18 PM, Obinna said:

Herdman always makes me feel better after watching him speak. Class act with a mission to leave the program better than he found it. Some may question his tactics, but he's the ultimate professional and just oozes integrity - no wonder he's such a great leader. We are lucky to have him. 

NL Rant

I think people have been harsh on his comments post NL defeat, especially the comments about putting in a good performance, but for me he's looking at the game from a different lense - don't know what to call it, a bigger picture view perhaps?

I agree with KJ and others when they disagree with Herdman about the performance, and call it lackluster, uninspired, etc., but I agree with Herdman's interpretation of the game as well. The stats back up his view about the game. We had some good moments, breaking lines and bending without breaking against a USA team that could "run you over" as he put it. As I have said before, it's an away final against a superior (on paper) opponent, in a country we haven't won against at home since 1950-whatever, and against an opponent galvanized by pummelling their biggest rivals, which arguably was emotionally bigger than winning the final against us. Combine that with a lack of prep and the niggles we had and the end result of 2-0 is to be expected, if not a respectable showing from us. I get that nobody wants to call it "respectable", but taking a bigger picture, holistic view of the situation, you can see it that way. It may require you to see it as a neutral though, which I am not sure many people on our side have been doing (understandable).

There is a good reason why the American fans have given us credit for the effort we put up, more than we give ourselves, and that's because they see the bigger picture, or at least are not viewing it from a Canada-centric perspective. 

I don't think he is making excuses. I think he's being realistic about where the program is. 

My main reason for being upset about his post NL comments was that he was already making the prep time excuse before the final. I know the "F Croatia" comment was a mistake, but it was at least in the same vane of the "new Canada" speak. Trying to instill confidence that we can win games like that. But now all of a sudden it's "This game might not be winnable, and it's not my fault it's someone else because I need to prep the team more." He even brought up that before the Panama game he had to focus on that opponent, so that only left a couple days to prep for USA, as if USA had more time to prep for us.

I know we were expected to lose that game, but it almost sounded like Herdman was planning on losing the game. Not that he was throwing the game, but he was already comfortable with a loss before the game started. And this from a guy that is saying a shortcoming of the CSA is that they aren't being serious about trying to win the World Cup.

I've always been a Herdman supporter/defender, but for me he has become a lot less bullet proof recently.

[SpursFlu]

If Herdman doest win out the group stage and we lose convincingly in the QFs

Herdman should be fired

[Bigandy]

11 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

If Herdman doest win out the group stage and we lose convincingly in the QFs

Herdman should be fired

Its a developmental tournament. We demand that herdman develops our youngsters and gives them chances but if they dont win, we need to sack herdman. Relax man. This tournament is a long term play, besides who could we hire with no money, tons of fighting at CSA, and who wants to work with limited resources that would be an upgrade on herdman. Good luck finding someone like that. 

[SpursFlu]

45 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Its a developmental tournament. We demand that herdman develops our youngsters and gives them chances but if they dont win, we need to sack herdman. Relax man. This tournament is a long term play, besides who could we hire with no money, tons of fighting at CSA, and who wants to work with limited resources that would be an upgrade on herdman. Good luck finding someone like that. 

Who are we developing here? Name 1 player that he doesnt already know all about that we're developing in this tournament? That has legitimate upside.. maybe Ali Ahmad 

His roster selection must have taken all of 5 seconds.. ahhh ok who plays in the MLS bring them. Whatever 

Oh.. there's the alarm.. Millar Hoilett  your off.. gotta manage those legs.. you know since Millar is 23 yrs old

People need to get it thru their heads.. the guy wants out of his contract. For whatever reason he doesn't want to be be coaching the cmnt for the next 3 years

Edited June 30, 2023 by SpursFlu

[SpursFlu]

How come people have such a hard time with setting expectations? Why are we so wishy washy in this country. We should expect more. This has nothing to do with funding or money. It has to do with the players we brought, and the players being put on the field. Period 

Our group is a joke.. losing in the QFs convincingly shouldn't be accepted

If the point was to go young.. he should have went all the way with it. No Vitoria, no Borjan, no Osorio, no Miller etc

Really it's been shaky since we qualified for the World Cup. Nobody can deny that. Now Herdman just wants to blame everyone 

[frmr]

52 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

How come people have such a hard time with setting expectations? Why are we so wishy washy in this country. We should expect more. This has nothing to do with funding or money. It has to do with the players we brought, and the players being put on the field. Period 

Our group is a joke.. losing in the QFs convincingly shouldn't be accepted

If the point was to go young.. he should have went all the way with it. No Vitoria, no Borjan, no Osorio, no Miller etc

Really it's been shaky since we qualified for the World Cup. Nobody can deny that. Now Herdman just wants to blame everyone 

I think you're forgetting that if we fire Herdman (who does not deserve to be fired), we need to replace him. And since you're trying very hard to convince people that he should be let go, you must have someone in mind that will improve us, since there's no way you're suggesting we just fire him for the sake of firing him, because that would be daft. We're all ears.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Who are we developing here? Name 1 player that he doesnt already know all about that we're developing in this tournament? That has legitimate upside.. maybe Ali Ahmad 

His roster selection must have taken all of 5 seconds.. ahhh ok who plays in the MLS bring them. Whatever 

Oh.. there's the alarm.. Millar Hoilett  your off.. gotta manage those legs.. you know since Millar is 23 yrs old

People need to get it thru their heads.. the guy wants out of his contract. For whatever reason he doesn't want to be be coaching the cmnt for the next 3 years

Here are 7 players.
1. Nelson - Recently moved to europe
2. Bombito - 6 pro games and already looked fine in a NEW position at the national level... more to come.
3. Development of ZMG into the squad. He may not have huge upside but hes a depth piece and to argue depth is bad would be stupid. 
4. McGill prem contracted GK 
5. Ahmed - Looked great in a debut after not playing for 5ish? weeks.
6. Loturi - young player in europe.
7. JRR - First real season in MLS 

Its absolute nonsense to say "players he doesnt know about". Developing youth is not about players you know or dont know. Its time spent together as a squad, learning expectations and tactics, feeling the pressure of international footy, getting experience against better players etc. It would be so dumb to say " I've scouted X player and hes fine. We dont need to have him spend time to learn out system or his teammates or how to handle the elevation/heat/intensity of rival stadiums". 

Which players would you have brought instead of our current roster? Id love to hear which player you would bring and which you would leave at home. Obviously I hope you dont include the guys who declined the call up. 

We can 100% set expectations but what are those expectations? Do we need to win every game or herdmans out? Win the GC? Do we use the nest 3 years to develop players for the WC? 

You clearly have an alternative in mind? Which coach could we hire, at herdmans salary, who would be willing and an upgrade on herdman.  Surely you dont want us to fire the most succesful coach we've arguably ever had without an alternative in mind? 

Why are so negative? If you have a better solution, lets hear it? 

[kacbru]

There's too much emphasis on development. That occurs with clubs and can't be the focus of cmnt. 

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, kacbru said:

There's too much emphasis on development. That occurs with clubs and can't be the focus of cmnt. 

Thank you!

[dyslexic nam]

I view it as not as “developing” but as getting a deeper look at and seeing what kind of note rial they have firsthand.  Going to watch a Timbers game doesn’t tell you as much as watching a player like McGraw over the course of a couple of weeks at daily training sessions and in games.  

We may have a provisional roster list of 60-some pros who may be able to play at this level but when JH needs to name a 26 (or whatever) person squad he needs to know how they fit together, how players cover positions of need, and who has the potential to step up at the required time and play at the level required.  A tournament like this gives him a chance to have the deep dive on lots of new faces.  

Are players getting developed - in terms of growing individually?   No - or at least not in any meaningful way.  But they are being assessed as potential members of the squad in terms of skillset, flexibility, attitude and ability to integrate into our system of play.  

[SpursFlu]

32 minutes ago, kacbru said:

There's too much emphasis on development. That occurs with clubs and can't be the focus of cmnt. 

Yah what are we developing? If the point is to look at young players or new players.. then Herdman did a terrible job bringing in players for that purpose 

[SpursFlu]

So we have zero expectations? If we lose to Guatemala, tie Cuba and crash out.

What? Who cares? These was all about developing Moises Bombito and Zac Mcgraw?

Edited June 30, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

So we have zero expectations? If we lose to Guatemala, tie Cuba and crash out.

What? Who cares? These was all about developing Moises Bombito and Zac Mcgraw?

No one is saying zero expectations but lets be clear on what the expectations and repercussions are. Losing to guatemala with a B squad is no reason to call for herdmans head. Failure to qualify for the wc in 26 (if we didnt host) would be. 

Heres my issue with the negativity your spouting. You provide zero solutions. Then we 2 people ask for your opinion on how to improve things, you respond by putting words in our mouths saying we dont have expectations. you are ignoring your opportunity to provide positive feedback and instead, rewording what others have said in order to put a negative spin on things.  

If after this gold cup we crash out of the QF but add ahmed ZMG and bombito as realistic call ups because they can handle the pressure, fit in with the tactics/team/attitude etc, then I call the GC a success. 

Who would you replace in the squad? Who would you have replace herdman? I would love to hear your constructive feedback? 

2 hours ago, kacbru said:

There's too much emphasis on development. That occurs with clubs and can't be the focus of cmnt. 

Similar to nam, its not about developing individual players. Its squad development. Imagine the diffence between your first time in azteca vs your 10th. The 10th time you will likely be less affected. Same goes for understanding the types of runs a striker makes etc. more reps with a bigger range of players helps create a smoother transition for fringe players to push for a bigger role.

Croatia has been building a squad and system for years. They are outperforming expectations because of it. We outperformed expectations partly because of uniting the squad into the brotherhood. This B team now has more players continuing the concept of brotherhood. Herdman can use some vets to show what this means, set standards etc so that he doesnt have to start from scratch with a completely new team. 

Dont you think squad development is extremely important? 
 

[kacbru]

Of course squad integration is important, but the talk above was about how the CMNT should be developing individual players. You even provided a list. 

I don't think you can compare what Croatia has been doing for decades to the seemingly random Herdman approach. 

If squad integration is the focus for the Gold Cup, why leave the MLS players with their clubs last weekend when they could have been in camp integrating. The costs would have been minimal. 

[SpursFlu]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

No one is saying zero expectations but lets be clear on what the expectations and repercussions are. Losing to guatemala with a B squad is no reason to call for herdmans head. Failure to qualify for the wc in 26 (if we didnt host) would be. 

Heres my issue with the negativity your spouting. You provide zero solutions. Then we 2 people ask for your opinion on how to improve things, you respond by putting words in our mouths saying we dont have expectations. you are ignoring your opportunity to provide positive feedback and instead, rewording what others have said in order to put a negative spin on things.  

If after this gold cup we crash out of the QF but add ahmed ZMG and bombito as realistic call ups because they can handle the pressure, fit in with the tactics/team/attitude etc, then I call the GC a success. 

Who would you replace in the squad? Who would you have replace herdman? I would love to hear your constructive feedback? 

Similar to nam, its not about developing individual players. Its squad development. Imagine the diffence between your first time in azteca vs your 10th. The 10th time you will likely be less affected. Same goes for understanding the types of runs a striker makes etc. more reps with a bigger range of players helps create a smoother transition for fringe players to push for a bigger role.

Croatia has been building a squad and system for years. They are outperforming expectations because of it. We outperformed expectations partly because of uniting the squad into the brotherhood. This B team now has more players continuing the concept of brotherhood. Herdman can use some vets to show what this means, set standards etc so that he doesnt have to start from scratch with a completely new team. 

Dont you think squad development is extremely important? 
 

So the only way Herdman gets fired is if he doesn't qualify for a World Cup we can't not qualify for? Here's a couple questions

If we don't qualify for Copa America does Herdman get fired? The answer should be 100%

If Herdman gets fired do we pay him his full salary until 2026? If he takes another job what's the deal? I personally feel Herdman wants to be fired

I dont like his current energy. I don't like his current decisions. I think unless there is a dramatic turnaround of those things and form I think he should be fired immediately following the Gold Cup. Im appreciative for what he's accomplished for us but that's the only way to allow for a reasonable rum up for a new coach to the next WC

Edited July 1, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Stoppage Time]

46 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

So the only way Herdman gets fired is if he doesn't qualify for a World Cup we can't not qualify for? Here's a couple questions

If we don't qualify for Copa America does Herdman get fired? The answer should be 100%

If Herdman gets fired do we pay him his full salary until 2026? If he takes another job what's the deal? I personally feel Herdman wants to be fired

I dont like his current energy. I don't like his current decisions. I think unless there is a dramatic turnaround of those things and form I think he should be fired immediately following the Gold Cup. Im appreciative for what he's accomplished for us but that's the only way to allow for a reasonable rum up for a new coach to the next WC

If his contact continues to pay him after being fired, which is bizarre, would the CSA be able to afford another "new" coach (as opposed to an already employed staff coach)?

[Kadenge]

8 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

If his contact continues to pay him after being fired, which is bizarre, would the CSA be able to afford another "new" coach (as opposed to an already employed staff coach)?