Herdman new head coach

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, GasPed said:

100% on your entire post, but this part here is also important from a measuring stick perspective too.  The US may have beaten us, but they absolutely thumped Mexico.  At no point in that game did it appear that Mexico had a chance - they were dominated from start to finish.  Admittedly the US was down two starters against us, but we were far more competitive than Mexico.  So yes, we were clearly second best, but I think it's fair to say that Mexico was clearly third best (they were also unimpressive against Panama).  And I think that's a good indication of our overall talent level too.

For sure and to add to that - if someone was to come from the future 5 years ago and offer us 2nd in CONCACAF, we'd have taken it. Of course we need to actually prove we are 2nd best in CONCACAF (not convinced we are there yet), but just to be in that conversation is success. Remember when the goal was to be the 3rd best in the region? Wasn't even that long ago (think 2019 gold cup). We quickly went from 4th in people's minds, to 3rd (was clear after beating CR in GC 21) to now 2nd (arguably).

Looking forward now....I think I saw that we play Mexico in the semi of the GC (should we get there). That is another statement game for us. People may think it's win GC or bust, get revenge on the yanks and beat their B squad with our A/B squad hybrid, but I would say that our goal should just be to get to the final, then let the chips fall where they may. Make sure we get past a Mexico that'll be desperate to right some wrongs. That would be a true accomplisment and would re-inforce the narrative we are 2nd. It'll be a statement game, plus a revenge game for us. 

If we get to the final and knock out Mexico in the GC semi, but lose in the final, that's progress for me. That's a clear sign we are 2nd in the region. It'll be a milestone proving we can go deep in tournaments that actually mimic the WC format (Nations League does not). 

If we lose to Mexico, then we haven't improved or progressed from a few years ago. At that point I think the outrage and cynicism would be warrented. Small steps in the right direction are progress. 

[shorty]

Can we just take a quick moment to acknowledge that @SoCalTransport made a post on the last page that got at least one of each of 4 out 5 possible reactions you can make on a post (like, laugh, sad, confused). Don't think I've ever seen this.  In fact, I'm going to go back and thank him now for this incredible accomplishment just so that he can say he got 5/5!  

Edited June 20, 2023 by shorty

[shorty]

7 hours ago, SoCalTransport said:

Herdman is right, Trudeau is hemorrhaging money on climate change and a proxy war in Ukraine. That offers no benefit to Canadians.

Loan some money to Canadian soccer, so they can properly train, and properly develop their talent. Have the money so they can play elite teams in friendlies.

Thank you for this insightful, hilarious, sad and confusing post.  5/5 brother

[Watchmen]

10 minutes ago, frmr said:

Exactly this. Change for the sake of change is stupid, and akin to throwing shit at a wall. If there is someone who is clearly better, who is willing to work within the financial constraints which Herdman has mostly excelled in, who is available and willing to make the move, and who is willing to work with the dumpster fire that is Canada Soccer, then by all means. But I don't think that person exists. The managers that we want, we can't get. The managers that we can get are going to be lateral moves if we're lucky.

I have no idea who's available. I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's still some real positives someone would look at if they took over as manager. A few world class players, likely a spot in the next Copa America, and a guaranteed spot in the next World Cup. Herdman has done a lot of the hard work of building (and we should never forget that), but a slightly better manager might look at it is a great opportunity (even with some big draw backs still).

[frmr]

7 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I have no idea who's available. I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's still some real positives someone would look at if they took over as manager. A few world class players, likely a spot in the next Copa America, and a guaranteed spot in the next World Cup. Herdman has done a lot of the hard work of building (and we should never forget that), but a slightly better manager might look at it is a great opportunity (even with some big draw backs still).

As always with Canada Soccer, money is going to be the biggest issue. I agree it's an attractive position (aside from the federation being a joke) but the tier of manager that would warrant parting ways with Herdman (ie: a clear and obvious upgrade), we likely can't afford. Our best bet would be a moneyball signing on an under-the-radar or up and coming manager, which is basically what Herdman was. The last time we went for experience and pedigree within our budget, we got Floro.

[Colonel Green]

18 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I have no idea who's available. I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's still some real positives someone would look at if they took over as manager. A few world class players, likely a spot in the next Copa America, and a guaranteed spot in the next World Cup. Herdman has done a lot of the hard work of building (and we should never forget that), but a slightly better manager might look at it is a great opportunity (even with some big draw backs still).

Kloke, among others, have said that the CSA probably literally cannot afford to replace Herdman unless he gives them grounds to try to do so for cause.

[red card]

 

[Watchmen]

21 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Kloke, among others, have said that the CSA probably literally cannot afford to replace Herdman unless he gives them grounds to try to do so for cause.

I agree, they probably can't buy him out. But if there's another federation that wants to bring him on and he wants to jump while is stock is high, it could make sense for everyone to just part ways.

[costarg]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

Exactly this. Change for the sake of change is stupid, and akin to throwing shit at a wall. If there is someone who is clearly better, who is willing to work within the financial constraints which Herdman has mostly excelled in, who is available and willing to make the move, and who is willing to work with the dumpster fire that is Canada Soccer, then by all means. But I don't think that person exists. The managers that we want, we can't get. The managers that we can get are going to be lateral moves if we're lucky.

I mean, we didn't have success at the World Cup in the group of death, and we lost a final to an excellent USA. That's not grounds for dismissal.

Might get stomped on for this one, but if we're looking for examples and if I'm being honest, Biello might even be a better choice at the moment.  He's got more experience coaching, been around the game his whole life, knows CSA and has managed stars in the past.  He's grounded and a nice guy.

[HochelagaFC]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Might get stomped on for this one, but if we're looking for examples and if I'm being honest, Biello might even be a better choice at the moment.  He's got more experience coaching, been around the game his whole life, knows CSA and has managed stars in the past.  He's grounded and a nice guy.

He’s been underwhelming with the U-23 and U-20. I don’t know what he brings to the table that Herdman doesn’t. 

He isn’t a good tactician (from his time with Montréal and the youth teams) and as a motivator he’s not on Herdman’s level. 
 

He has good experience coaching but no more than Herdman. 
 

If we go from Herdman to Biello or Neville I think it’s a downgrade not worth doing. If we promote from within I’d rather see us go with a young coach with upside like Tenllado. 

[Bertuzzi44]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I agree, they probably can't buy him out. But if there's another federation that wants to bring him on and he wants to jump while is stock is high, it could make sense for everyone to just part ways.

Herdman's stock was at its highest pre-World Cup. But now it is definitely lower. No results against top tier teams. Not even a point.

[Watchmen]

5 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Herdman's stock was at its highest pre-World Cup. But now it is definitely lower. No results against top tier teams. Not even a point.

I think if you're looking for someone to help build a program on limited resources, the WC results probably won't dissuade you.

[Colonel Green]

50 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think if you're looking for someone to help build a program on limited resources, the WC results probably won't dissuade you.

But why would he want to leave to take another job like that?

[Stoppage Time]

1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Herdman's stock was at its highest pre-World Cup. But now it is definitely lower. No results against top tier teams. Not even a point.

1 win(against Panama) and four losses since the WC? Four goals scored in five matches?

[narduch]

.....

Edited June 21, 2023 by narduch

[toontownman]

3 hours ago, red card said:

 

Fucking Canadian Soccer Federation. Splitters. Down with the CSF. Been saying it for years.

 

[Bison44]

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Stoppage Time said:

1 win(against Panama) and four losses since the WC? Four goals scored in five matches?

Did we not win two games in March?

[SpursFlu]

We need to start generating revenue. Hire a high profile coach, get some big friendlies and fill stadiums 

[MrR]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

We need to start generating revenue. Hire a high profile coach, get some big friendlies and fill stadiums 

Ha! How many years ago was it since the CMNT played a friendly in Canada?

[MrR]

September 2, 2017. Jamaica. BMO. Pre-Herdman. That's right. Zero friendlies in Canada since Herdman was appointed head coach.

[nolando]

3 minutes ago, MrR said:

September 2, 2017. Jamaica. BMO. Pre-Herdman. That's right. Zero friendlies in Canada since Herdman was appointed head coach.

Wait a second, didn't we play Panama and Iran in Vanco....ah...never mind.

[top cheese]

Herdman's decisions in the World Cup was a complete 180 from what made the team successful in qualifying. It seemed as if the team was there to enjoy the experience rather then compete. 

The Nations League final was shambles, and mindboggling with the tactical decisions that were made. The manager needs to take responsibility for this. 

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Did we not win two games in March?

I dunno. Can't remember. Who did we beat?

[MrR]

1 minute ago, Stoppage Time said:

I dunno. Can't remember. Who did we beat?

Curacao + Honduras