Herdman new head coach

[kacbru]

16 minutes ago, The Ref said:

I would not be surprised if he felt uneasy with the CSA after Qatar.  The CSA can't be trusted and I would not put anything past them.

I could certainly understand this. 

But to then look towards the NZFF?  That's what makes no sense.  It is a federation that asked Danny Hay to reapply for his position.  They didn't even have the guts to let him go if they wanted to go in a different direction.  It is a federation that has been quite content to roll the dice in the intercontinental playoff, and do nothing in between.  They are more allergic to camps and friendlies than the CSA. 

[SF]

1 minute ago, kacbru said:

I could certainly understand this. 

But to then look towards the NZFF?  That's what makes no sense.  It is a federation that asked Danny Hay to reapply for his position.  They didn't even have the guts to let him go if they wanted to go in a different direction.  It is a federation that has been quite content to roll the dice in the intercontinental playoff, and do nothing in between.  They are more allergic to camps and friendlies than the CSA. 

Could be 100 reasons - personal. his own sense of self, who knows...what is quite likely, however, is that he does not feel secure or fully happy being employed by the CSA.

[Watchmen]

16 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I could certainly understand this. 

But to then look towards the NZFF?  That's what makes no sense.  It is a federation that asked Danny Hay to reapply for his position.  They didn't even have the guts to let him go if they wanted to go in a different direction.  It is a federation that has been quite content to roll the dice in the intercontinental playoff, and do nothing in between.  They are more allergic to camps and friendlies than the CSA. 

They do basically have a WC spot for 2026 essentially locked up now, since Oceania gets a full berth.

[An Observer]

7 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

They do basically have a WC spot for 2026 essentially locked up now, since Oceania gets a full berth.

And for every World Cup thereafter

[Bison44]

Yeah he suddenly figured out the CSA were fishy, after being part of the CSA gang for the last 12 years.   

[canuckgbp]

I know the CSA can be a circus at times… but this NZ reporting is strange. 
 

How can Herdman “apply” and “agree to terms” to the NZF job while still under contract until 2026 with Canada? Makes no sense. 
 

We can’t forgot how Herdman got the Canadian job in the first place though. He is shrewd. Willing to step on toes. Can’t rule out that he cooked something up to get a better contract, resources or whatever. 

Is the NZ reporting bunk? They are indeed doubling down on twitter about it.
 

Idk what to think. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by canuckgbp

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Yeah he suddenly figured out the CSA were fishy, after being part of the CSA gang for the last 12 years.   

I'm not saying I believe the NZ reports or that the CSA being fishy suddenly caught him off guard.  But I do think he thought that if they finally qualified he'd get better backing for camps, friendlies, etc.  And that...really didn't happen.

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, An Observer said:

And for every World Cup thereafter

The FIFA World Cup just ain't what it used to be.

Ain't' what it used to be. 

Ain't what it used to be. 

The FIFA World Cup just ain't what it used to be. 

You should have know that since Qatar. 

[Cheeta]

Worth a watch.

Echoes a lot of what has been discussd here.

[Floortom]

Obviously Herdman went through this entire process with NZ as a way to leverage the CSA for more money. I'm happy he's staying (because the alternative is likely way worse) but he's quite a snake. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Are folks aware there was no announced bonus deal for Qatar?

I also heard there was no deal in place when they were playing in Qatar. No deal for families either. Perhaps I don't have more updated information.

If Herdman made this manoeuvre with the men still with their WC bonus pending or not fully resolved, that wouldn't be right.

It's odd given the strike and how vocal some players are, across genders, that nothing has been released. Oh and total garbage incompetence from Westhead to offer zero follow up.

[dyslexic nam]

15 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Worth a watch.

Echoes a lot of what has been discussd here.

Interesting.  Not a lot of new info but it is interesting how we tend to ferret out all the same issues on here that they do.   Also interesting to see how much Wheels toes the party line.  I get that he supports Herdman - I do too.  But the idea that the NZ account is mostly fiction seems a bit weird considering the level of detail they cited.  Giving a PowerPoint presentation isn’t a random fib - it is a very specific claim.   

I also find it odd how laughable he finds the idea of hiring Ancelotti.  Maybe I am in lala land, and I admit that I don’t really know the salary demands of a coach of that calibre, but he is a top tier coach with strong ties to Canada and who has expressed an interest in our national team. On its face, it doesn’t seem so utterly ludicrous that you would mock the idea.   
 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[Kadenge]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Interesting.  Not a lot of new info but it is interesting how we tend to ferret out all the same issues on here that they do.   Also interesting to see how much Wheels toes the party line.  I get that he supports Herdman - I do to.  But the idea that the NZ account is mostly fiction seems a bit word considering the level of detail they cited.  Giving a PowerPoint presentation isn’t a random fib - it is a very specific claim.   

I also find it odd how laughable he finds the idea of hiring Ancelotti.  Maybe I am in lala land, and I admit that I don’t really know the salary demands of a coach if that calibre, but he is a top tier coach with strong ties to Canada and who has expressed an interest in our national team. On its face, it doesn’t seem so utterly ludicrous that you would mock the idea.   
 

 

Well, we are talking about Wheeler  

 

[El Hombre]

25 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Obviously Herdman went through this entire process with NZ as a way to leverage the CSA for more money. I'm happy he's staying (because the alternative is likely way worse) but he's quite a snake. 

How is this the actions of a snake?  That makes no sense to me.

In my eyes, this is just basic economics.  In order to leverage more money from the CSA, NZ would have to offer him more than what he's currently making.  If they are willing to do that, then they've just set the market price.

As a manager, I want employees to bring competing offers to me.  That way I get to decide whether they are worth that much or if I have to let them go.  Much better than just quitting on me.  Also, if they are looking around that lets me know that I'm not doing enough for them.  If they're somebody that I really want to keep, I need to work harder.

The fact that it was made public is the only negative in this whole thing.  Not sure who did that but I find it hard to believe it was Herdman seeing as he then had to release a statement.

[Floortom]

Just now, El Hombre said:

How is this the actions of a snake?  That makes no sense to me.

In my eyes, this is just basic economics.  In order to leverage more money from the CSA, NZ would have to offer him more than what he's currently making.  If they are willing to do that, then they've just set the market price.

As a manager, I want employees to bring competing offers to me.  That way I get to decide whether they are worth that much or if I have to let them go.  Much better than just quitting on me.  Also, if they are looking around that lets me know that I'm not doing enough for them.  If they're somebody that I really want to keep, I need to work harder.

The fact that it was made public is the only negative in this whole thing.  Not sure who did that but I find it hard to believe it was Herdman seeing as he then had to release a statement.

The act of fielding offers is fine. It's the fact that we're still seeing these weak denials etc and letting it blow up in NZ's face that I find snake'ish. Herdman should have just come out and said "Yes, i was interested, I interviewed, but I've decided to stay here"

[Free kick]

30 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

I also heard there was no deal in place when they were playing in Qatar. No deal for families either. Perhaps I don't have more updated information.

 

The families were in Qatar (from the little I could tell) and they were on the flights to Qatar.   I highly doubt that they would have been on the plane without having their tickets paid for already.

[El Hombre]

34 minutes ago, Floortom said:

The act of fielding offers is fine. It's the fact that we're still seeing these weak denials etc and letting it blow up in NZ's face that I find snake'ish. Herdman should have just come out and said "Yes, i was interested, I interviewed, but I've decided to stay here"

1) You've filled in a lot of blanks there.  You're assuming that NZ was just a patsy in all this.  Not sure if that's true.

2) He basically said that in his release.

[El Hombre]

16 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The families were in Qatar (from the little I could tell) and they were on the flights to Qatar.   I highly doubt that they would have been on the plane without having their tickets paid for already.

Yes the families were taken care of.  I read somewhere in the reaction to Sandra Gage's departure yesterday that they were very happy with what was provided for them.  Pretty sure I heard the same directly from some family members as well.

[Bison44]

This kind of thing does make his "die for the shirt" mantra ring a little hacknyed and phoney eh??   "I am super 100% totally committed, still super detail oriented with my eye on everything but i took the time to make up a power point presentation for my plan for NZ half way through my contract, while the u-17 are prepping for a big tournie and the mens squad was skipping a camp poutine opportunity".  Which is fine, sure it happens in the real life with all our jobs in all our fields.  BUT...the players think they have the wizard of OZ in there, he better not pull back the curtains to show the car salesman at work, shucking for a better job in 2026.  

[El Hombre]

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This kind of thing does make his "die for the shirt" mantra ring a little hacknyed and phoney eh??   "I am super 100% totally committed, still super detail oriented with my eye on everything but i took the time to make up a power point presentation for my plan for NZ half way through my contract, while the u-17 are prepping for a big tournie and the mens squad was skipping a camp poutine opportunity".  Which is fine, sure it happens in the real life with all our jobs in all our fields.  BUT...the players think they have the wizard of OZ in there, he better not pull back the curtains to show the car salesman at work, shucking for a better job in 2026.  

I realize I'm alone in this and fighting a losing battle but it is very easy for me to be 100% committed to the people I work with and also be completely 100% disillusioned with management.  Especially when incompetence runs rampant.  And sometimes that will make the eyes wander.

[Unnamed Trialist]

51 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The families were in Qatar (from the little I could tell) and they were on the flights to Qatar.   I highly doubt that they would have been on the plane without having their tickets paid for already.

You're mistaken unfortunately. All family members paid upfront.

I can't give more details, sorry, but my sources are good.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Bison44]

8 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I realize I'm alone in this and fighting a losing battle but it is very easy for me to be 100% committed to the people I work with and also be completely 100% disillusioned with management.  Especially when incompetence runs rampant.  And sometimes that will make the eyes wander.

This is like Santa Claus.  You believe so hard as a kid, its magical and you'll run through walls for Santa Herdman.....then your stupid cousin explains its your Dad who buys the presents and Santa is fishing around for a job with NZ and the illusion is gone, the magical brotherhood just isnt the same.  You dont hate Santa or your Dad, but that special thing you had is just a boring old normal trip to walmart for presents. Its not the magical thing you thought it was and next time you sit on his lap at the mall you dont buy his phony HO HO HO routine anymore.  

[El Hombre]

Just now, Bison44 said:

.....then your stupid cousin explains its your Dad who buys the presents.... 

Ummm....what are you trying to tell me here?  Why would my cousin lie like that....?  This scenario makes no sense.

[Free kick]

17 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You're mistaken unfortunately. All family members paid upfront.

I can't give more details, sorry, but my sources are good.

 

50 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Yes the families were taken care of.  I read somewhere in the reaction to Sandra Gage's departure yesterday that they were very happy with what was provided for them.  Pretty sure I heard the same directly from some family members as well.

That was my sense as well.   But we seem to have conflicting info here with what @Unnamed Trialist is saying.   Again,  i would find it odd that someone would buy a ticket in advance and wait for a refund knowing that there is chance that you might not get a full refund. or even when you will get a refund.

[ob1]

13 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This is like Santa Claus.  You believe so hard as a kid, its magical and you'll run through walls for Santa Herdman.....then your stupid cousin explains its your Dad who buys the presents and Santa is fishing around for a job with NZ and the illusion is gone, the magical brotherhood just isnt the same.  You dont hate Santa or your Dad, but that special thing you had is just a boring old normal trip to walmart for presents. Its not the magical thing you thought it was and next time you sit on his lap at the mall you dont buy his phony HO HO HO routine anymore.  

My sources tell me Herdman took less money to stay with Canada. 

Something to do with the ability to live rent free.