Mark-Anthony Kaye

[The Beaver 2.0]

Could it be Panamanian and Mexican fans posting the vile crap? Maybe I just want to believe that Canadians wouldn't do this to one of their own, but that is clearly naive. 

One of the challenges of growing the sport is that you'll invariably attract some dipshits along the way. 

I think showing some love for MAK on Sunday is the right thing to do. I have it from a reliable source that he is indeed gutted.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, GasPed said:

"The best way to end racism is to stop talking about it" (Morgan Freeman)

This probably isn't the forum to have an in-depth discussion about this, and I know there are many diverse views out there, but I will say that in my own experience as an ethnic minority, Mr. Freeman's advice has been the only strategy I've observed that's worked.  No, it doesn't work instantly, nor does it work in all cases.  But, in my experience, it has been far more effective than the other approach (i.e. confrontation, call-outs, retribution).  Imho. 

This is spot on. By shining a light on the racist posts you’re playing right into their hands. This is what they want. They want to snicker away while Canada Soccer posts something.

What MAK did was right. Turn off the comments. 

How are we in 2022 and people still don’t understand the troll playbook? It’s embarrassing honestly. These people aren’t Canada fans they’re just looking for a reaction and all the people looking to “support” MAK just let them win. Infuriating. 

Nothing would make these dweebs angrier than if the comments were just deleted and no one said shit. That’s how you win. They’d be crying in their mothers basement. People thinking that condemning anonymous internet trolls is going to solve racism are the lowest form of stupid on the planet.

Edited March 26, 2022 by CanadaFan123

[JAVIERF]

He is gonna get it right next time for only a professional foul,  Learning curve is on his duty.  He was very naive.  Actually he shouldn't go 50 /50  in the first place, be smart use the Bilardo manoeuvre tip of your fingers in the guys belly when 50/50 you win the ball... All the time

[JAVIERF]

Kayé is a magnificent tremendous player, fantastic skill, yesterday he did some flicks with his back foot very good.  He will learn the lesson.  

[Approve My Account Pls]

So we're all singing the anthem on Sunday Mark-Anthony Kaye style right

 

[The Beaver 2.0]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

This is spot on. By shining a light on the racist posts you’re playing right into their hands. This is what they want. They want to snicker away while Canada Soccer posts something.

What MAK did was right. Turn off the comments. 

How are we in 2022 and people still don’t understand the troll playbook? It’s embarrassing honestly. These people aren’t Canada fans they’re just looking for a reaction and all the people looking to “support” MAK just let them win. Infuriating. 

Nothing would make these dweebs angrier than if the comments were just deleted and no one said shit. That’s how you win. They’d be crying in their mothers basement. People thinking that condemning anonymous internet trolls is going to solve racism are the lowest form of stupid on the planet.

No, support MAK because he's feeling shit about falling for Venegas' antics and he needs to know we still got his back. 

[SoccMan]

The more I think about this the more I think this two yellow by Kaye has been overblown. It’s soccer this happens players get red cards , players get two yellows and are sent off it happens. It’s happened to some of the best players in the world . Soccer is a crazy game , sometimes it doesn’t make sense . It’s a low scoring game where almost every call or foul can change a game like it did last night. It’s a frustrating game at times ,however, when a team or your team is able to overcome all the craziness that is soccer and win game , win a championship or qualify for something like a World Cup the feeling is second to none. I’ve had a love hate relationship with this sport since I started watching many years ago . There are a few changes I would like to see but I’m not in charge so will still follow the way it is . Ya Kaye should have just walked away, ya Venegas dived but that’s soccer folks but we still love it and will still follow.

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, Onelessstar said:

I get what you're trying to say.... but we can't "ignore" our way to a polite society either. You're likely 99% correct that these statements (from the CSA etc) have no affect on many/most of the perpetrators but it does raise awareness to the issue/concern and opens many people's (privileged) eyes to the fact that this shit still happens and that, maybe, it's your (or my) 13 year old keyboard warrior initiating some of it. I'm betting most 13 year olds will learn more through intervention and support rather than being ignored.

Honestly, I  have no idea of how Mark Anthony-Kaye (or Saka, Sancho or Rashford) are dealing or feeling about this type of abuse. I never will. So... I am sure not going to tell anyone how to feel, or how deal with it.... or how those closest to them should feel or deal with it.

I would say that the world is much more supportive and aware of these issues than when I was a child of the 70s and 80s and that it is the 13 year olds (and 9 year olds and 17 year olds and 4 year olds....) who are going to, hopefully, grow up as allies and not be trying to learn/catch up as a middle aged person.

That said.. . I get what you're trying to say. I just feel that approach is mostly proven not to work. But, then again, what the hell do I know...

I agree about supporting 13 year olds not to be assholes and to treat others as you want to be treated. That’s what this all boils down to. 

The part about opening the eyes of the privilaged is interesting. What is privilege in this case, someone who hasn’t faced racial discrimination? I suppose that qualifies me as unprivileged. Perhaps that’s why I don’t resonate with the raising awareness thing. Why do I need to be made aware when I have experienced it first hand? I don’t need any reminders and I am sure many others feel the same. It’s really an ugly thing, taunting people for things they cannot change. Sometimes I feel that illuminating this kind of stuff too much is not helpful.

You’re right in that you cannot ignore it out of existence though. I get that for sure. But when I say “ignore” I am talking as someone on the receiving end, not someone who is “privileged” not to deal with it, but maybe you got from my last comment already. 

I can appreciate the desire to be an ally as well, and it is good intentioned I am sure, but I think that desire to be an ally is just inherent for good natured people, especially kids, so I prefer to just leave it as encouraging kids and people to be good, without calling it being an ally.

I tend to shy away from the idea of “allieship” as an identity or label. It doesn’t sit well with me. The actions and spirit behind it are different, I appreciate that part wholeheartedly, but when people identify as allies and/or speak about themselves as being privileged, usually with an undertone of guilt, I just feel it’s not helpful, but I can tell it is well intended. I probably don’t like it because at that point we are still putting people in boxes, know what I mean? It just doesn’t feel good to me. So even when engaging in so-called allieship, I feel people just need to be treated as equal without making a big deal of it, and certainly without the labels.

That’s just my opinion though. I am sure other people feel different!

Cheers!

[TGAA_Star]

12 hours ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Could it be Panamanian and Mexican fans posting the vile crap? Maybe I just want to believe that Canadians wouldn't do this to one of their own, but that is clearly naive. 

One of the challenges of growing the sport is that you'll invariably attract some dipshits along the way. 

I think showing some love for MAK on Sunday is the right thing to do. I have it from a reliable source that he is indeed gutted.

As he should be 

[YorkRegionFan]

12 hours ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

No, support MAK because he's feeling shit about falling for Venegas' antics and he needs to know we still got his back. 

If we could imagine ourselves in his shoes, during those plays, would we have acted differently?  I know for myself, I could just as easily acted like he did. The two yellow cards could have happened to anyone, regardless of skin colour. 

The only thing MAK can do is to chalk this up as a learning experience.

That said, what is the best way to show support to MAK and to show him that Canadian fans forgive him?

[JAVIERF]

13 hours ago, SoccMan said:

The more I think about this the more I think this two yellow by Kaye has been overblown. It’s soccer this happens players get red cards , players get two yellows and are sent off it happens. It’s happened to some of the best players in the world . Soccer is a crazy game , sometimes it doesn’t make sense . It’s a low scoring game where almost every call or foul can change a game like it did last night. It’s a frustrating game at times ,however, when a team or your team is able to overcome all the craziness that is soccer and win game , win a championship or qualify for something like a World Cup the feeling is second to none. I’ve had a love hate relationship with this sport since I started watching many years ago . There are a few changes I would like to see but I’m not in charge so will still follow the way it is . Ya Kaye should have just walked away, ya Venegas dived but that’s soccer folks but we still love it and will still follow.

Soccer is like life as some Europeans say if you try to make it perfect you will destroy its essential spirit.

 

Football sometimes is unfair life is unfair and full of injustice.  The best team lose the scoundrels win, but not forever

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

I am not going to shit all over Kaye because it happens.  But the reason why people are mad isn't just because he got a second yellow.  It was because it was a dumb and 100% avoidable move.  Sure he got caught up in the moment.  But that doesn't matter.  There have been times where I wanted to break someone's ankles for ignorant chirping or dirty tackles that the ref missed - but when important things are on the line you just don't do it.  Especially if you are already on a yellow.  You control your emotions and you let your play do the talking.  Venegas may have been a douchbag for acting the way he did but I can guarantee that not a single player on the field would have been surprised by that reaction - or by the fact that a CONCACAF ref might buy it.  So you just don't do it.

To be clear - none of this justifies the reaction that MAK has had to endure by a small pocket of ignorant "fans".  Full stop.  That jas been inexcusable.  

But lets not gloss over the stupidity of the play and pretend that what happened was just part of how it goes.  It didn't have to go down like that at all, and given the way we played the rest of the game, it is fairly safe to say that we were one dumb shoulder charge away from not only qualifying for Qatar, but also eliminating a team that doesn't deserve to be in contention to still qualify.

[jonovision]

He made a mistake. It wasn't fatal to our WC chances. He'll learn from it. In fact, I think in future he'd be less likely than most other players on the team to make a similar mistake because he knows better than anyone the consequences. Apart from being unavailable for Sunday, I doubt this will have any bearing on his selection for future matches.

As for your last point, I'm not sure Costa Rica don't deserve to be in contention to qualify. Even if we had drawn or won, Costa Rica would still have the second best record (second only to us) over the second round of matches (last 5 games). As it stands they're first. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by jonovision

[Bison44]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am not going to shit all over Kaye because it happens.  But the reason why people are mad isn't just because he got a second yellow.  It was because it was a dumb and 100% avoidable move.  Sure he got caught up in the moment.  But that doesn't matter.  There have been times where I wanted to break someone's ankles for ignorant chirping or dirty tackles that the ref missed - but when important things are on the line you just don't do it.  Especially if you are already on a yellow.  You control your emotions and you let your play do the talking.  Venegas may have been a douchbag for acting the way he did but I can guarantee that not a single player on the field would have been surprised by that reaction - or by the fact that a CONCACAF ref might buy it.  So you just don't do it.

 

May???  It might have gotten his team the advantage but 100% its douchy.  Thats the stuff that loses the game fans, turns off all the new Canadians just climbing on the bandwagon.  My wife said that we "bump each other harder in the kitchen reaching to get a glass out of the cupboard".   

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

May???  It might have gotten his team the advantage but 100% its douchy.  Thats the stuff that loses the game fans, turns off all the new Canadians just climbing on the bandwagon.  My wife said that we "bump each other harder in the kitchen reaching to get a glass out of the cupboard".   

Yeah, "may" wasn't used in the literal "might be or might not be" sense - more of a literary device in the context of the sentence.  He is 1000% a total douchebag that I would love to see Doneiled in any other context.

[gator]

56 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

May???  It might have gotten his team the advantage but 100% its douchy.  Thats the stuff that loses the game fans, turns off all the new Canadians just climbing on the bandwagon.  My wife said that we "bump each other harder in the kitchen reaching to get a glass out of the cupboard".   

Costa Rica were fighting for their World Cup survival hence I think most of the players were going to do anything to give their team an advantage, hell their federation lit off fireworks during our anthem which I'm sure was meant to get under our skin! Kaye fell for it and I agree with @dyslexic nam it was totally avoidable, of course the racial abuse is pathetic, who knows where that is coming from but Kaye let everyone down massively and I would not be putting a lot of trust in him anytime soon, sugar coat it all you want, it was ridiculous!

[archer21]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Only now just learning about the online racial abuse (from this thread). Real shame (goes without saying). Good on the CSA for having our player's back (also goes without saying).

At the same time, does anyone else feel these kind of statements are totally detached from the people the abusers? I just can't imagine the next person to racially abuse someone is now going to think twice because the CSA or whoever put out a statement. I just don't think it works that way. 

The issue has nothing to do about awareness. We have been raising awareness for decades now.

I think the issue is that people are jerks and like saying hateful shit, especially behind a computer screen. And what's the best way to deal with a jerk? Just ignore them.

Sure, if we want to keep putting out statements to stand in solidarity, then fair enough. It's not going to make it worse or anything, but it's not going to make it better, either. 

When this kind of thing happens to us, I think we just have to ignore it, shake it off, and move on, rather than seeking retribution in whatever form it takes (legal or otherwise). Not saying Kaye, the CSA or anyone is specifically seeking retribution, but I am just speaking generally. I always feel with these things that there's an undertone of retribution, because when there's an avenue to punish for such a thing, that avenue is taken, but you cannot punish your way to a polite society (I feel it never works - hasn't worked for racism at least).

Anyways, rant over.

Shame that Kaye has to deal with that, because the red card is enough to deal with as it is. I am sure he'll bounce back for Panama and he should be fresh and ready to go for that one. 

It’s a tough discussion, there probably isn’t really a correct answer. I felt a bit uncomfortable when it was called out on Twitter as well. Kaye probably turned off the comments so that he didn’t have to deal with it. So by taking screenshots and posting it, you’re kind of making him live through it again. Why not just report the people privately? Why the need for the public call-out? I think the CSA had to publicly show support for him though once it had all become so public.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am not going to shit all over Kaye because it happens.  But the reason why people are mad isn't just because he got a second yellow.  It was because it was a dumb and 100% avoidable move.  Sure he got caught up in the moment.  But that doesn't matter.  There have been times where I wanted to break someone's ankles for ignorant chirping or dirty tackles that the ref missed - but when important things are on the line you just don't do it.  Especially if you are already on a yellow.  You control your emotions and you let your play do the talking.  Venegas may have been a douchbag for acting the way he did but I can guarantee that not a single player on the field would have been surprised by that reaction - or by the fact that a CONCACAF ref might buy it.  So you just don't do it.

To be clear - none of this justifies the reaction that MAK has had to endure by a small pocket of ignorant "fans".  Full stop.  That jas been inexcusable.  

But lets not gloss over the stupidity of the play and pretend that what happened was just part of how it goes.  It didn't have to go down like that at all, and given the way we played the rest of the game, it is fairly safe to say that we were one dumb shoulder charge away from not only qualifying for Qatar, but also eliminating a team that doesn't deserve to be in contention to still qualify.

I agree it was a poor move on Kaye's part but I would rather he committed that mistake in these circumstances than in a WC game where one game means everything. I'll bet you that will never happen again to him. He'll learn and we move on.

[ob1]

KEEP CALM

and FFS MOVE ON!!!

 

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

May???  It might have gotten his team the advantage but 100% its douchy.  Thats the stuff that loses the game fans, turns off all the new Canadians just climbing on the bandwagon.  My wife said that we "bump each other harder in the kitchen reaching to get a glass out of the cupboard".   

Ha.  Ahem.. He he.....

 

Any-who.  If taken out of context that little tap is a caution about 1% of the time, dramatics be damned.  However, there is always context.  The previous caution and subsiquent VAR review and the generaly developing snarky play.  Ref wnated to take control I guess.  I still think the caution was waaay over reacted and in hind sight expect he may be feeling the same way.

If Staks puts the ball into touch after MAK got clobbered everything moves into a different realm.  Everybody comes together, an outraged MAK gets to play the victim, blah, blah, blah.   Doesn't excuse MAK's risky judgment in the moment, just suggesting it could have been avoided with a little help from his friends.    

[Cadeau]

16 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

I agree it was a poor move on Kaye's part but I would rather he committed that mistake in these circumstances than in a WC game where one game means everything. I'll bet you that will never happen again to him. He'll learn and we move on.

Yeah exactly...Beckham and Zidane (come to mind) both took stupid red cards with much bigger stakes on the line. It happens.

[youllneverwalkalone]

It must have been said already but amazing it took 18 matches of qualifying to see a red. Amazing especially because the brotherhood doesn't take any shit.

It was also the first time we've had a central American ref against a central American side that I can remember in some time. Took one look at that guy and knew we'd be in trouble (although he wasn't really that bad).

[Dominic94]

Tbh, I can’t fault MAK as the whole team wasn’t great in that first half, we should have been better at the start.

[gator]

35 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

 

If Staks puts the ball into touch after MAK got clobbered everything moves into a different realm.  Everybody comes together, an outraged MAK gets to play the victim, blah, blah, blah.   Doesn't excuse MAK's risky judgment in the moment, just suggesting it could have been avoided with a little help from his friends.    

This was key to the whole thing coming down as it did, he needed to put that ball out of play and then there would have been team mates around checking on Kaye's  well being and grabbing him if he was going to try to inflict some revenge!

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

May???  It might have gotten his team the advantage but 100% its douchy.  Thats the stuff that loses the game fans, turns off all the new Canadians just climbing on the bandwagon.  My wife said that we "bump each other harder in the kitchen reaching to get a glass out of the cupboard".   

I doubt that. Frustrates new fans but the excitement that followed made up for it, guaranteed.