Herdman new head coach

[Floortom]

6 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

The bottom line is going to be how we do in the final 8. We have to finish top 4 (at least) for him to keep his job ( if he doesn't get a better offer somewhere else and dumps us).😏

I don’t believe that’s true at all. The CSA has invested a lot in Herdman and I really doubt his job with be on the line in an octagonal.

even ignoring whether his job is on the line, I think a top 5 finish would have to be viewed as a success. 

[king1010]

18 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

The bottom line is going to be how we do in the final 8. We have to finish top 4 (at least) for him to keep his job ( if he doesn't get a better offer somewhere else and dumps us).😏

I don't think that's going to happen. If we make the Ocho I think he keeps his job. 

[BrennanFan]

5 hours ago, Floortom said:

I don’t believe that’s true at all. The CSA has invested a lot in Herdman and I really doubt his job with be on the line in an octagonal.

even ignoring whether his job is on the line, I think a top 5 finish would have to be viewed as a success. 

Not making the World Cup, with the talent we have, must be viewed as a failure. 

#3 to #7 in Concacaf are all basically at the same level. If we can get a string of results at home, anything is possible. I believe we can qualify [explicit apparently unfunny content removed]. We can absolutely do this. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by BrennanFan

[frmr]

32 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Not making the World Cup, with the talent we have, must be viewed as a failure. 

#3 to #7 in Concacaf are all basically at the same level. If we can get a string of results at home, anything is possible. I believe we can qualify, even with a pathetically inexperienced Tony Robbins wannabe Hobbit for a coach who has never won a trophy in his life. We can absolutely do this. 

You know, when you say shit like, it just shows you’re just a miserable piece of shit human. I honestly don’t have any respect for you.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

50 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

 a pathetically inexperienced Tony Robbins wannabe Hobbit for a coach who has never won a trophy in his life. 

Tell us what you really think.   

[Cheeta]

^^  That took off pretty quick.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Cheeta

[RS]

59 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Hobbit

I'm fully qualified to tell you this: don't be throwing stones in glass houses. 😂

 

[BrennanFan]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

I'm fully qualified to tell you this: don't be throwing stones in glass houses. 😂

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, king1010 said:

I don't think that's going to happen. If we make the Ocho I think he keeps his job. 

The optics of eighth and no points would be difficult to survive in career terms so think the bar would be more like being in serious contention for the last qualification spot almost to the end, but maybe better to wait until late on Tuesday before launching into this sort of thing? Things are looking good on getting past Haiti, but it's no sure thing yet.

[frmr]

Yeah I thought that maybe there was some logical reasons as to why he didn't like Herdman as manager, which is why I was presenting reasons to make a counter argument. Now I realize that was all wasted energy because the guy probably married the wrong woman or failed at achieving anything in life and is now miserable. I could see how a positive persona like Herdman would be repulsive to someone like that.

[dyslexic nam]

Let’s (all) ease up on the attacks - whether Herdman or other members.  

[BearcatSA]

33 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The optics of eighth and no points would be difficult to survive in career terms so think the bar would be more like being in serious contention for the last qualification spot almost to the end, but maybe better to wait until late on Tuesday before launching into this sort of thing? Things are looking good on getting past Haiti, but it's no sure thing yet.

I think we are going to be quite competitve in the Ocho so as long as the team stays "we" guys and not become "me" guys if some results don't go the way the team hopes.

The odds of a Haitian revival in Chicago are pretty low.  Our eyes will be on the prize and we will be able to do the job.  

Edited June 13, 2021 by BearcatSA

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, frmr said:

Yeah I thought that maybe there was some logical reasons as to why he didn't like Herdman as manager, which is why I was presenting reasons to make a counter argument. Now I realize that was all wasted energy because the guy probably married the wrong woman or failed at achieving anything in life and is now miserable. I could see how a positive persona like Herdman would be repulsive to someone like that.

Herdman didn't deserve to be hired due to his lack of experience at this level. 

That's why the questions of his suitability will dog him until he proves otherwise. For some of us he still has to prove it.

Just because you disagree with that doesn't mean you have to attack others.

 

[Kadenge]

One step at a time guys. Never look past an upcoming match. 2 wins in a row against solid opponents with one on Tuesday to the ocho. I was not a fan of JH's appointment, but I dont care if he is short,tall, overweight or skinny, good looking like me or not. If he gets us to the Ocho, I salute him and right now we have to get behind our players and coaching staff. 

 

[BrennanFan]

26 minutes ago, frmr said:

Yeah I thought that maybe there was some logical reasons as to why he didn't like Herdman as manager, which is why I was presenting reasons to make a counter argument. Now I realize that was all wasted energy because the guy probably married the wrong woman or failed at achieving anything in life and is now miserable. I could see how a positive persona like Herdman would be repulsive to someone like that.

Take a deep breath. It's ok. It's gonna be ok. 

[red card]

34 minutes ago, frmr said:

Yeah I thought that maybe there was some logical reasons as to why he didn't like Herdman as manager, which is why I was presenting reasons to make a counter argument. Now I realize that was all wasted energy because the guy probably married the wrong woman or failed at achieving anything in life and is now miserable. I could see how a positive persona like Herdman would be repulsive to someone like that.

He has along with a bunch others have not been fans of Herdman since page 1 of this thread.

Every manager should get criticisms and I do agree the jury is still out on Herdman but net net, he has been moving the men's national team on the right path. And unless it is complete disaster in the Ocho - finish last, players become disillusioned with Herdman and he crosses swords with the CSA - he won't be fired.

But two points often cited in these 71 pages have proven to be wrong.

1. His women only experience wouldn't translate to the men on and off the pitch.

2. His motivational/psychological skills are basically useless for creating men's national team success. The players say otherwise. The team is on the verge of creating an identity for the first time since Waiters's days.

 

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, red card said:

He has along with a bunch others have not been fans of Herdman since page 1 of this thread.

Every manager should get criticisms and I do agree the jury is still out on Herdman but net net, he has been moving the men's national team on the right path. And unless it is complete disaster in the Ocho - finish last, players become disillusioned with Herdman and he crosses swords with the CSA - he won't be fired.

But two points often cited in these 71 pages have proven to be wrong.

1. His women only experience wouldn't translate to the men on and off the pitch.

2. His motivational/psychological skills are basically useless for creating men's national team success. The players say otherwise. The team is on the verge of creating an identity for the first time since Waiters's days.

 

He is also overpaid. 

So who knows which way better managers we could have had instead of him.

Plus we never did a proper manager search when he was installed.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by narduch

[SpursFlu]

20 hours ago, frmr said:

How do you figure? It's not like it was a moment of brilliance from Davies or David that won the game. Davies was pretty much neutralized. You know what did shine through? The fact that he was playing like he was willing to run through a wall... I wonder what inspired him to do that?

I just think our talent is on another level compared to Haiti. Man v Man comparing the rosters its not even close. 

[The Real Marc]

Way better managers? Lack of experience at this level? I don’t have huge love for Herdman but thars really flailing given our last managers are Zambrano, Miller, Mitchell and Stephen “Halifax King of Donair” Hart.

 

And remember how happy people were when we hired Floro? That experience and pedigree sure panned out well

Edited June 13, 2021 by The Real Marc

[BrennanFan]

6 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Way better managers? Lack of experience at this level? I don’t have huge love for Herdman but thars really flailing given our last managers are Zambrano, Floro, Miller, Mitchell and Stephen “Halifax King of Donair” Hart.

Assuming the rumours of Herdman getting a similar inflated deal to Floro are true, we certainly could have hired a more experienced and accomplished manager than Herdman for the amount of money the CSA spent on him.  Instead, we got CSA cronyism. We've seen it before, many times. 

But that's all water under the bridge at this point. 

[AvroArrow]

My biggest concern was how he would transition from the women's game (where the players are often dependant on the national team for their income) to the men's game, where they largely are not.  This could create a much different environment where it would be much easier for a mens coach to "lose the room".  So far it doesn't seem that this has been an issue.

 

Still curious about Zambrano's dismissal.  He did have us playing some decent soccer.

[The Real Marc]

11 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Assuming the rumours of Herdman getting a similar inflated deal to Floro are true, we certainly could have hired a more experienced and accomplished manager than Herdman for the amount of money the CSA spent on him.  Instead, we got CSA cronyism. We've seen it before, many times. 

But that's all water under the bridge at this point. 

This is self-convincing conjecture, that doesn't stack up rationally. Think about it. If that's the going rate for a CSA crony or a Benito Floro, then that level of money isn't going to be a real upgrade on either of those, is it?

Before Herdman that winning candidate was Octavio. Sure, it was sexy to hear a Canadian boss say "futbol" but his resumé and results weren't stellar either. We were not and are not a compelling job - yet.

Herdman may yet epically fail. I'm not impressed with the 1-0 over Haiti (wait til we have to play in Jamaica, Azteca, or Panama!) and tend to distrust the smooth talking (not to mention permagelled hair.) And maybe I've just been a fan too long, but I'm not super confident about the Octo. Our team is good, but everyone else has improved too. If Jamaica stacks up we could be in real trouble. I tend to think that we'll see the fruits of Herdman's flaws before long.

But the opposition to his hire was rooted mainly in the fact that he was coming over from the women's team - some of that a jealousy over the perception that the women were the more marquee program, some a disdain for the women's game.

Remember when people predicted that major players wouldn't show up to play for Herdman, because he came over from the women's game?

It was as tacky and obvious back then as it was now.

 

[BrennanFan]

3 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

This is self-convincing conjecture, that doesn't stack up rationally. Think about it. If that's the going rate for a CSA crony or a Benito Floro, then that level of money isn't going to be a real upgrade on either of those, is it?

 

You'd be right if the CSA paid an appropriate market rate for an out of touch, past his prime manager like Floro. Unfortunately, the CSA saw Real Madrid on his resume and basically got swindled. It's great that the CSA finally spent decent money a coach, but it's all for nothing if they can't hire a capable coach for that value. 

Bottom line, it's incredibly difficult for the CSA to find a coach who will wear multiple hats, and do things the CSA way. 

[MtlMario]

4 hours ago, king1010 said:

I don't think that's going to happen. If we make the Ocho I think he keeps his job. 

So basically all he has to do is tie a team ranked 83 and he keeps his job 😁. Anybody remember when his contract finishes?

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

So basically all he has to do is tie a team ranked 83 and he keeps his job 😁. Anybody remember when his contract finishes?

Apparently 2026.