Herdman new head coach

[Bison44]

9 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Feel free to point to a time in the last 25 years when we've had the past equivalents of David, Eustaquio, or Corbeanou to commit at such young ages.

DIdnt  Hume, Jaimie Peters and greatest CDN pro of all time Hutchinson all commit young to Canada even though i think they all were duals??  That would have been Holger eh??  

[BearcatSA]

27 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

This latest round of discussion started because one guy said "kudos to Herdman" for a particular aspect of the most-recent match, and this triggered a bunch of weirdos who can't get over themselves long enough to just support the team during a crucial week in the future of the entire Canadian men's program.

First off, that was me getting this thread going again, in part because the Lucas Cavallini thread which I wanted to talk about was geting sidetracked by Herdman debate on there.  And secondly, I gave him "a" kudo because I thought he did a good job in his role on the day, one of many team members who contributed: as you note, others from both sides of the argument took the ball and ran with it from there.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

DIdnt  Hume, Jaimie Peters and greatest CDN pro of all time Hutchinson all commit young to Canada even though i think they all were duals??  That would have been Holger eh??  

Wasn't Peters a Yallop project?

[SthMelbRed]

43 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Just off the top of my head... 

Floro: Akindele, Hoilett, Arfield, Vitoria

Zambrano: Davies

Herdman: Eustaquio, David, Tabla, Ferreira, Corbeanu 

It's all one process. The pendulum began to swing in our direction starting with Akindele and really ramped up when Davies signed on and then went to Bayern. 

The main factor is 2026, not Herdman. 

How old were Hoilett, Arfield, and Vitoria when they committed? Do you really think that Alphonso Davies was going to elect to play for Sierra Leone over Canada?

Is there anything that Herdman can do that you won't flippantly dismiss or divert credit to others? There's nothing in your posting history on this topic that suggests there is. That says more about you than it does about Herdman.

It's been three and a half years. You need to get over it. It's not healthy.

[lamptern]

3 hours ago, costarg said:

With that logic, no 17-18 year old stars would ever get starts due to not having the experience necessary at qualifying for a World Cup.  He shows confidence in Johnston and Kennedy (the list goes on) and they pay it back.

Canada needed a complete restart and approach for these tournaments.  Herdman came along at the exact right time.  Changing the entire way things were being done was necessary.  Like it or not, this kind of coaching is what works in 2021.  This is the only good decision CSA made in a long time.

My dream vision: In 2030, all of our starting 11 are from top 5 Euro league, CMNT is hiring a midlevel tactic professional head coach from Europe while Herdman is the General Manager incharge of everything except training/playing games.

Edited June 14, 2021 by lamptern

[frmr]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Look...

You may not have been happy about the circumstances surrounding John Herdman's hiring as CMNT manager 3+ years ago....I get that.

You may have been dissatisfied with John Herdman's qualifications at the time he was hired....I get that.

You may find John Herdman's new-age, motivational speaker management style to be annoying as fuck....I get that.

But...

John Herdman IS the current CMNT manager.

We ARE in the midst of a World Cup qualifying campaign, and performing very well in that campaign.

We HAVE had greater success under John Herdman's tenure in getting high-value dual nationals to commit to Canada, and doing so at younger ages, than we have had under any other manager this century.

 

If you can't let go of any or all of the first 3 points, or accept the latter 3 points, you may be suffering from issues that need addressing away from this forum. 

These are my thoughts also. I've been accused of attacking some members but I honestly think some people here have some other stuff going on which they are attempting to justify with their flimsy arguments.

To add to your points I think one of the most important things to consider in favour of Herdman is what the players say about him. Those are the only people that actually matter in this equation, and they're giving rave reviews. I honestly couldn't care less what some salty Canada fans with cognitive dissonance say about him (aside from being moderately annoyed by it), what the players are saying about him is the closest thing to the reality that we can get and it looks good.

Another point on the "negative" side which I have a sneaking suspicion might actually be accounting for some of these mysteriously strong negative opinions of him is that he came from the women's game. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there was some deep-seated sexism lingering from his past appointments, and some traditionalists just can't come to grips that we have a "women's coach" leading our men.

Either way you cut it, some of the responses towards him in this thread have been, from a logical point of view, pitiful, and from a personal point of view, embarrassing. Not attacking anyone, don't @ me.

[Bison44]

Lets say its a wash...one big f#ck up at gold cup, one nice unexpected win vs USA, lots of wins against a bunch of teams we usually beat and we are currently almost in top 8, which we have been in the last couple cycles.  With all the thorny games against top opponents hopefully upcoming in the ocho.  So..YAY Herdman....but not really loudly i guess because he has had a golden generation dropped in his lap.

We have gotten more and better duals lately, but is that because of 2 CDN wonder kids making noise all across the soccer world? Maybe they see CDN MLS clubs/academies getting bigger and better, and finally our own domestic league up and running? Maybe because kids know we are going to the WC in 2026?? And of course some of it will be a modern approach young cheerleader coach like Herdman.  

To me the flimsy argument for Herdman is what players say about him.  How much faith do u put in those comments when he has a contract till 2026,runs the whole show and controls whether you get calls to camp and play.  What kind of an idiot is going to say negative things now, when its all on track, and they just need to keep rolling and maybe even get lucky and qualify.  Everyone is your friend when things are good.  So for me, I am still waiting on seeing the team do something special, go farther than expected.  We have enough talent we shouldnt crash out of the ochco, maybe even qualify with a little luck and some good coaching.  Lets get er done!!!    

 

 

[frmr]

6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Lets say its a wash...one big f#ck up at gold cup, one nice unexpected win vs USA, lots of wins against a bunch of teams we usually beat and we are currently almost in top 8, which we have been in the last couple cycles.  With all the thorny games against top opponents hopefully upcoming in the ocho.  So..YAY Herdman....but not really loudly i guess because he has had a golden generation dropped in his lap.

We have gotten more and better duals lately, but is that because of 2 CDN wonder kids making noise all across the soccer world? Maybe they see CDN MLS clubs/academies getting bigger and better, and finally our own domestic league up and running? Maybe because kids know we are going to the WC in 2026?? And of course some of it will be a modern approach young cheerleader coach like Herdman.  

To me the flimsy argument for Herdman is what players say about him.  How much faith do u put in those comments when he has a contract till 2026,runs the whole show and controls whether you get calls to camp and play.  What kind of an idiot is going to say negative things now, when its all on track, and they just need to keep rolling and maybe even get lucky and qualify.  Everyone is your friend when things are good.  So for me, I am still waiting on seeing the team do something special, go farther than expected.  We have enough talent we shouldnt crash out of the ochco, maybe even qualify with a little luck and some good coaching.  Lets get er done!!!    

 

 

Yeah obviously no one is going to be saying anything negative about their manager, they're professionals. If your manager is shit you just say nothing. It's what they're saying that I'm talking about. Have we ever heard any player, not to mention the star player and one of the leaders of the group, say that the coach has them willing to run through a brick wall? That's not something you just say as lip service, that's a true reflection of the mentality Herdman has cultivated.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 hours ago, red card said:

...The team is on the verge of creating an identity for the first time since Waiters's days.

Holger Osieck?

[Ivan]

Ask me my opinion of Herdman after tomorrow night.

[TGAA_Star]

Herdman if he manages to get Canada through tomorrow against Haiti, then whatever respect I have for him already would be exponentially increased

[SpecialK]

Yes I am not a Herdman fan that is well documented. Has he done a decent job yes, his recruitment has been excellent. Do I think that’s all him no. If they got a higher profile coach the players would still come. Herdman’s hiring was just pure amateur hour of the CSA simple as that. 

I love how the standard is so low here. It’s Haiti come on guys and girls. Haiti is a decent team for sure but with our talent we should smashing them. Maybe not in Haiti because of the pitch but on Tuesday it should be 3-0. Us fans need to hold this team accountable and have high expectations. We should be top 3 in the region, so it’s time for us to start acting like it. Its not the Canada of old so STOP with the PTSD. If Herdman doesn’t  get us to World Cup 2022 he should be fired the next day. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by SpecialK

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Yes I am not a Herdman fan that is well documented. Has he done a decent job yes, his recruitment has been excellent. Do I think that’s all him no. If they got a higher profile coach the players would still come. Herdman’s hiring was just pure amateur hour of the CSA simple as that. 

I love how the standard is so low here. It’s Haiti come on guys and girls. Haiti is a decent team for sure but with our talent we should smashing them. Maybe not in Haiti because of the pitch but on Tuesday it should be 3-0. Us fans need to hold this team accountable and have high expectations. We should be top 3 in the region, so it’s time for us to start acting like it. Its not the Canada of old so STOP with the PTSD. If Herdman doesn’t  get us to World Cup 2022 he should be fired the next day. 

I believe our all time record against Haiti is something like 8 wins and 2 losses. We got this.

[MtlMario]

If we would of won that Gold Cup game (that we should of won) nobody here would be so worried now.

[narduch]

Just now, MtlMario said:

If we would of won that Gold Cup game (that we should of won) nobody here would be so worried now.

That and the US away game do not help with the PTSD.

[Kent]

15 minutes ago, narduch said:

I believe our all time record against Haiti is something like 8 wins and 2 losses. We got this.

Yes, 8 wins, 2 losses, and 2 draws.

[Corazon]

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Come on, lets be real, like him or not you give him the cycle to prove what he can do.  What federation would can a guy one year into his term as head coach?  Its crazy to even suggest, let him go through the ocho, see how it goes and see where the program sits...and with him already signed on for next cycle it will take a complete flame out for any kind of real movement on firing him.  Like who fires a coach before he has a chance to prove himself with only vague reasons behind it.  No association should do that.  

I am not sure if you are being ironic or not but didn't Canada just do this exact thing to Zambrano with the signing of Herdman?  Again, perhaps there was a reason for his termination but CSA kept it all very hush.

FYI - I agree coaches should be given some time as a coach and I am by no means calling for Herdman to be fired. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Corazon

[The Beaver 2.0]

We honestly do not yet know if Herdman has the chops to take this team to their full potential. I suspect we can all--almost all--agree on that.  He has indeed done some good stuff, particularly in terms of organization, planning, professionalism and motivation, and we've seen some decent signs in terms of on field performance to suggest he has some tactical ability, at least.  But success with this young, fairly talented squad is about the longer term--the mid-term, really--and how far he can take these guys.  The team is indeed getting better and better, but we can only assess how good they can get by playing good teams. Failing to advance to the Ocho will be a massive failing. Plain and simple. I suspect most of us will be calling for his head if that happens, depending on the circumstances of that loss. But the Ocho will be the real test. I am not yet convinced Herdman is the guy to realize the full potential of this team, but we will find out soon enough. Give him credit for what he's achieved so far in WCQ, but the real test is still a head of him.

[RS]

12 hours ago, narduch said:

Didn't David play U-17 for us in 2017?

Herdman was hired in 2018

Yes. And Davies played U-17 & U-20 in 2016.

Zambrano was hired in 2017.

[The Ref]

1 hour ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

We honestly do not yet know if Herdman has the chops to take this team to their full potential. I suspect we can all--almost all--agree on that.  He has indeed done some good stuff, particularly in terms of organization, planning, professionalism and motivation, and we've seen some decent signs in terms of on field performance to suggest he has some tactical ability, at least.  But success with this young, fairly talented squad is about the longer term--the mid-term, really--and how far he can take these guys.  The team is indeed getting better and better, but we can only assess how good they can get by playing good teams. Failing to advance to the Ocho will be a massive failing. Plain and simple. I suspect most of us will be calling for his head if that happens, depending on the circumstances of that loss. But the Ocho will be the real test. I am not yet convinced Herdman is the guy to realize the full potential of this team, but we will find out soon enough. Give him credit for what he's achieved so far in WCQ, but the real test is still a head of him.

Herdman has always been nothing more than just a street Preacher for me, hence I call him The Preacher.  If he was to take us to Qatar I will convert to his religion.

[Shway]

5 hours ago, Ivan said:

Ask me my opinion of Herdman after tomorrow night.

I’ve heavily criticized him in the past.... but at this point in qualifying it would be on the players.

I’ve been impressed with how the coaching staff have tactically adjusted to each game (although I prefer an identity)...Herdman would have to play Piette at RW or start Sturing for any moves to be questioned at this point for being “his” fault why we don’t make the Ocho. 

The boys are ready!

[Weng]

14 minutes ago, Shway said:

I’ve heavily criticized him in the past.... but at this point in qualifying it would be on the players.

I’ve been impressed with how the coaching staff have tactically adjusted to each game (although I prefer an identity)...Herdman would have to play Piette at RW or start Sturing for any moves to be questioned at this point for being “his” fault why we don’t make the Ocho. 

The boys are ready!

I agree.  Another thing, I’ve been impressed with is with the assistant coaches he assembled. He didn’t just go to people he knew or had work with him beforehand, but grabbed a good French Canadian coach in Biello, and the other assistant who was with Curacao was it?   Anyways, he’s shown that he’s willing to use those that would help understand the Concacaf region and Canada too.

[MtlMario]

39 minutes ago, Weng said:

I agree.  Another thing, I’ve been impressed with is with the assistant coaches he assembled. He didn’t just go to people he knew or had work with him beforehand, but grabbed a good French Canadian coach in Biello, and the other assistant who was with Curacao was it?   Anyways, he’s shown that he’s willing to use those that would help understand the Concacaf region and Canada too.

Biello is not French Canadian he's Italian Canadian or I prefer to say he's Canadian. Cheers.

[Weng]

15 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Biello is not French Canadian he's Italian Canadian or I prefer to say he's Canadian. Cheers.

Apologies. I guess I should have said he’s experienced coaching in Montreal for a decent amount of time 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

Biello is not French Canadian he's Italian Canadian or I prefer to say he's Canadian. Cheers.

Trilingual, an advantage anywhere in the world.