SpursFlu Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I'm a little confused on why people think Canada beating Suriname and Haiti is some unprecedented accomplishment. Im equally confused at people holding Herdman accountable for things he hasn't accomplished or not accomplished yet. Lets just wait and see apbsmith, The Real Marc, BearcatSA and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I've got nothing against Herdman, but what has he accomplished as manager that any other manager we could have hired (take your pick) wouldn't have done? I'll give him one win against the US, but this isn't the first Canada team to beat minnows in WCQ and flame out at the Gold Cup. It is one of the most talented to do so. I think it's fair to have some minimum expectations of Canada's placing in the Ocho (top 5?) for him to keep his gig. Watchmen, Cheeta and BearcatSA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Speaking only for myself, I would just prefer it if we stopped the insults. Legitimate criticism and questioning coaching decision is fair game but calling him a hobbit seems like a really poor contribution in a national supporter’s group - especially when things are going well. Ivan, lamptern, Bikerack and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) If we get to the Octagon and lay an egg, with the talent we have, it would be pretty lame if Canadian Soccer fans didn't hold him accountable Again I haven't seen anything to think we won't do well Edited June 13, 2021 by SpursFlu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtlMario Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 If his big contract is till 2026 don't know if CSA will give him the boot (when they are always complaining they have no money) if we don't do well in the Octo.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: Speaking only for myself, I would just prefer it if we stopped the insults. Legitimate criticism and questioning coaching decision is fair game but calling him a hobbit seems like a really poor contribution in a national supporter’s group - especially when things are going well. It's due to his previous connection to New Zealand. But for the sake of good Canadian Soccer karma, I'll edit that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 So let’s assume we make the Octo/Octo: would anyone here fire Herdman before it gets started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club Linesman Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Of course not. In spite of the issues with his hiring, there is no reason to get rid of him at this time if he gets us to the Ocho. I also can’t say he should be fired if we don’t get a top 4 finish in the Ocho. To be honest many teams need to experience something first before becoming successful at a higher level and most of our team has not had more than a couple games against tough teams, and none in truly hostile foreign environments. We may have the talent to get through but experience is lacking for many. Cheeta, JamboAl, Zem and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Club Linesman said: Of course not. In spite of the issues with his hiring, there is no reason to get rid of him at this time if he gets us to the Ocho. I also can’t say he should be fired if we don’t get a top 4 finish in the Ocho. To be honest many teams need to experience something first before becoming successful at a higher level and most of our team has not had more than a couple games against tough teams, and none in truly hostile foreign environments. We may have the talent to get through but experience is lacking for many. I think it's too simple to say that he should be sacked if we don't get top 4. Let's get past Haiti, first. Then, if we're genuinely competitive in the 8, let's make a reasonable analysis of whether he should stay or go. If we completely shit the bed and are effectively eliminated by the mid-point of the final round, though, definitely sack him. Edited June 14, 2021 by SthMelbRed typo N1ckbr0wn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Marc Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Like him or not, he's going nowhere barring a player revolt. Get ready guys. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 21 hours ago, BigMo said: Agree, anyone giving him overt praise ( at this stage) has a short memory. We got a result against Honduras in the last cycle, with a far less talented team. That’s about as impressive as any of our victories under Herdman save for the US win and even that was a slightly more friendly for all intents and purposes. I remain optimistic about this team but it’s far too early to start handing out awards. Real progress would be results in the Oct. How can you be optimistic about the team, without acknowledging the fact he got all these dual-nats to join the program (and run through brick walls for him as Davies says.) That's also a huge part of his success, along with the wins. Previous coaches would've lost these guys due of lack of effort and no solid plan. Say what you want, but Herdman has a plan, he tries different systems, he has them winning and the guys are signing up to the program and giving it their all. This is success. N1ckbr0wn, Zem, MM3/MM2/MM and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Not a Herdman fan at the time of hiring to say the least but he deserves more time. Getting to the Octogonal was the expectation - I think he and the squad need to show well (at least top 5 for example) to say he’s accomplished something to be proud of. sure he’s had some failures along the way (gold cup loss to Haiti being the biggest) but people are forgetting the nations league win over the US which was probably our most impressive result in 20 years. An Observer and costarg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 hours ago, narduch said: Herdman didn't deserve to be hired due to his lack of experience at this level. That's why the questions of his suitability will dog him until he proves otherwise. For some of us he still has to prove it. Just because you disagree with that doesn't mean you have to attack others. With that logic, no 17-18 year old stars would ever get starts due to not having the experience necessary at qualifying for a World Cup. He shows confidence in Johnston and Kennedy (the list goes on) and they pay it back. Canada needed a complete restart and approach for these tournaments. Herdman came along at the exact right time. Changing the entire way things were being done was necessary. Like it or not, this kind of coaching is what works in 2021. This is the only good decision CSA made in a long time. Bikerack, LeoH037 and lamptern 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, costarg said: With that logic, no 17-18 year old stars would ever get starts due to not having the experience necessary at qualifying for a World Cup. He shows confidence in Johnston and Kennedy (the list goes on) and they pay it back. Canada needed a complete restart and approach for these tournaments. Herdman came along at the exact right time. Changing the entire way things were being done was necessary. Like it or not, this kind of coaching is what works in 2021. This is the only good decision CSA made in a long time. Come on man. That's apples and oranges. Hiring a manager is not the same thing as capping players. Besides at least those players had relevant professional experience. Edited June 14, 2021 by narduch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Come on, lets be real, like him or not you give him the cycle to prove what he can do. What federation would can a guy one year into his term as head coach? Its crazy to even suggest, let him go through the ocho, see how it goes and see where the program sits...and with him already signed on for next cycle it will take a complete flame out for any kind of real movement on firing him. Like who fires a coach before he has a chance to prove himself with only vague reasons behind it. No association should do that. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoH037 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, jonovision said: I've got nothing against Herdman, but what has he accomplished as manager that any other manager we could have hired (take your pick) wouldn't have done? I'll give him one win against the US, but this isn't the first Canada team to beat minnows in WCQ and flame out at the Gold Cup. It is one of the most talented to do so. I think it's fair to have some minimum expectations of Canada's placing in the Ocho (top 5?) for him to keep his gig. last I checked none of the previous managers were able to convince all the big time players to buy into the process and accept the call up for the exciting prospect of getting to beat up on no name minnows in obscure islands on make shift soccer fields, but okay. He's signed on for 2026, good luck getting rid of him before then, specially if he makes the octo Greatest Cockney Rip Off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I don't think his detractors were calling for him to be fired right now. We realize we are stuck with him. This discussion started because people were heaping praise on him, which is totally premature at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Look... You may not have been happy about the circumstances surrounding John Herdman's hiring as CMNT manager 3+ years ago....I get that. You may have been dissatisfied with John Herdman's qualifications at the time he was hired....I get that. You may find John Herdman's new-age, motivational speaker management style to be annoying as fuck....I get that. But... John Herdman IS the current CMNT manager. We ARE in the midst of a World Cup qualifying campaign, and performing very well in that campaign. We HAVE had greater success under John Herdman's tenure in getting high-value dual nationals to commit to Canada, and doing so at younger ages, than we have had under any other manager this century. If you can't let go of any or all of the first 3 points, or accept the latter 3 points, you may be suffering from issues that need addressing away from this forum. JamboAl, N1ckbr0wn, longlugan and 11 others 7 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, narduch said: I don't think his detractors were calling for him to be fired right now. We realize we are stuck with him. This discussion started because people were heaping praise on him, which is totally premature at this point. This latest round of discussion started because one guy said "kudos to Herdman" for a particular aspect of the most-recent match, and this triggered a bunch of weirdos who can't get over themselves long enough to just support the team during a crucial week in the future of the entire Canadian men's program. Zem, N1ckbr0wn, zammy67 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Come on, lets be real, like him or not you give him the cycle to prove what he can do. What federation would can a guy one year into his term as head coach? Its crazy to even suggest, let him go through the ocho, see how it goes and see where the program sits...and with him already signed on for next cycle it will take a complete flame out for any kind of real movement on firing him. Like who fires a coach before he has a chance to prove himself with only vague reasons behind it. No association should do that. Serious footballing nations who accept nothing less than qualification do just that, time and again. Colombia fired their coach just four games into the current qualifying campaign. Costa Rica just fired their coach after poor Nations League and friendly results. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said: This latest round of discussion started because one guy said "kudos to Herdman" for a particular aspect of the most-recent match, and this triggered a bunch of weirdos who can't get over themselves long enough to just support the team during a crucial week in the future of the entire Canadian men's program. Everybody on this site is a weirdo quite frankly. Kadenge, gator, sstackho and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said: We HAVE had greater success under John Herdman's tenure in getting high-value dual nationals to commit to Canada, and doing so at younger ages, than we have had under any other manager this century. This is Voyageur forum myth making. jonovision and longlugan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, narduch said: This is Voyageur forum myth making. Feel free to point to a time in the last 25 years when we've had the past equivalents of David, Eustaquio, or Corbeanou to commit at such young ages. Greatest Cockney Rip Off and longlugan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said: We HAVE had greater success under John Herdman's tenure in getting high-value dual nationals to commit to Canada, and doing so at younger ages, than we have had under any other manager this century. Just off the top of my head... Floro: Akindele, Hoilett, Arfield, Vitoria Zambrano: Davies Herdman: Eustaquio, David, Tabla, Ferreira, Corbeanu It's all one process. The pendulum began to swing in our direction starting with Akindele and really ramped up when Davies signed on and then went to Bayern. The main factor is 2026, not Herdman. narduch, lamptern and jonovision 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Didn't David play U-17 for us in 2017? Herdman was hired in 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now