Herdman new head coach

[toontownman]

Ain't saying another word til we get to Weds!

[gator]

I think he has done well the last 2 matches, some of his decisions I was concerned about worked out fine, we have to get to the final 8 though and there is another very important match to play Tuesday!

[SthMelbRed]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

We looked mentally tough in today in Haiti.  Had some rough patches but ground out the road win.  

Others may think differently, but I will give a kudo to the coach.

You naïve fool! Around these parts, there will never, under any circumstances, be kudos to this coach. Herdman could single-handedly find a cure for all forms of cancer and some knobheads on here will complain that he couldn't cure AIDS, as well. It's better to just leave those weirdos alone.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

26 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Ain't saying another word til we get to Weds!

I think this is the attitude to have. Please stop posting in this thread until Tuesday night at around 11:30pm Eastern.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

What progress? We finished top 8 in Concacaf the past 2 cycles, missing out on the Hex by just 1 point each time.  Par for the course so far. We're not lighting concacaf on fire, we're just beating teams we should be beating. I feel like his tenure has been very protected so far.  We've not played our key rivals (Honduras, Jamaica or Panama) under Herdman yet. Why? 

I agree.

We are 90 minutes from qualifying for the final round for the 3rd straight cycle now.

Luckily this time it is a much favorable situation. 

[BearcatSA]

3 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

You naïve fool! Around these parts, there will never, under any circumstances, be kudos to this coach. Herdman could single-handedly find a cure for all forms of cancer and some knobheads on here will complain that he couldn't cure AIDS, as well. It's better to just leave those weirdos alone.

Lol!

I'm not on any particular manager's bandwagon.  You're only as a good as your record now and I felt that these two matches were good.  No real distractions (i.e. if it is happening, the Navy SEAL team building isn't getting on the team's social media).  The subs were good ones.  The player selection (especially Kennedy) has been strong.  Positives. 

But when we get to the Ocho, the fish get bigger and the pressure picks up exponentially.  Handling the adversity of a set back (or set backs) that inevitably happens is the big thing.  And (something that I joked about in another thread) expectations are going to be higher than Jeff Bezos in space (or Seth Rogan sampling new products for Houseplant) with this fan base on here.

We need to prove, once and for all, that we are tough to beat:  we have to consistently show that we are not going to beat ourselves against lesser teams and we aren't going to engage in the victim game when we come up short against peers and superiors.  As a supporter, that's what I want.  But you only find out that kind of mettle from overcoming adversity.

(Sorry for the TED Talk tone)  

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

I agree.

We are 90 minutes from qualifying for the final round for the 3rd straight cycle now.

Luckily this time it is a much favorable situation. 

There's nothing lucky about it. Saying that it's luck that we're one favourable game away and a goal up from progressing further than we've been in almost 25 years is completely disregarding all of the hard work that the players, coaching staff, behind the scenes staff, etc have done in an extremely difficult and unique qualifying circuit during a global pandemic where we can't even play at home. We're heading into a final "home" match with a 1-0 lead on aggregate because we were able to basically dismantle a Suriname team with very good players, and win a very gutsy game on shitty pitch away from home against a team who thrives in that sort of situation. That's not luck. Honestly I think some people are just too lazy to use their brain and actually fully assess a situation and would rather just fall back on an habitual narrative which dictates their perspective.

[narduch]

14 minutes ago, frmr said:

There's nothing lucky about it. Saying that it's luck that we're one favourable game away and a goal up from progressing further than we've been in almost 25 years is completely disregarding all of the hard work that the players, coaching staff, behind the scenes staff, etc have done in an extremely difficult and unique qualifying circuit during a global pandemic where we can't even play at home. We're heading into a final "home" match with a 1-0 lead on aggregate because we were able to basically dismantle a Suriname team with very good players, and win a very gutsy game on shitty pitch away from home against a team who thrives in that sort of situation. That's not luck. Honestly I think some people are just too lazy to use their brain and actually fully assess a situation and would rather just fall back on an habitual narrative which dictates their perspective.

No need to be a condescending asshole.

If anything it looks like you aren't using your brain and are just lazily praising Herdman. 

This current WCQ format is actually way easier than the previous format that we have not been able to get past the semi final stage (3 groups of 4 where 2 advance) for 5 fucking cycles. 

If anything all this proves is that you aren't familiar with our history of qualifying.

BrennanFan is correct in his assessment. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by narduch

[frmr]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

No need to be a condescending asshole.

If anything it looks like you aren't using your brain and are just lazily praising Herdman. 

This current WCQ format is actually way easier than the previous format that we have not been able to get past the semi final stage (3 groups of 4 where 2 advance) for 5 fucking cycles. 

BrennanFan is correct in his assessment. 

I'm not being condescending, I'm just telling you what I think. You're saying it's lucky we're in the situation we are in, I'm saying there's nothing lucky about it and I backed that up with reasons why. I also provided specific reasons why I think we've progressed under Herdman, so I'm not sure why you consider that "lazily praising" him.

Your argument now is basically "nuh uh, you are". If you want to present a logical argument to what I'm saying, then go for it.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, frmr said:

I'm not being condescending, I'm just telling you what I think. You're saying it's lucky we're in the situation we are in, I'm saying there's nothing lucky about it and I backed that up with reasons why. I also provided specific reasons why I think we've progressed under Herdman, so I'm not sure why you consider that "lazily praising" him.

Your argument now is basically "nuh uh, you are". If you want to present a logical argument to what I'm saying, then go for it.

Fuck off.

You are literally telling people they don't have as smart a 'brain' as you. So ya. You are a condescending dickhead. 

Had you left that 1 line out of your post I may have taken your argument more seriously. 

 

[BigMo]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

No need to be a condescending asshole.

If anything it looks like you aren't using your brain and are just lazily praising Herdman. 

This current WCQ format is actually way easier than the previous format that we have not been able to get past the semi final stage (3 groups of 4 where 2 advance) for 5 fucking cycles. 

If anything all this proves is that you aren't familiar with our history of qualifying.

BrennanFan is correct in his assessment. 

Agree, anyone giving him overt praise ( at this stage) has a short memory.  We got a result against Honduras in the last cycle, with a far less talented team. That’s about as impressive as any of our victories under Herdman save for the US win and even that was a slightly more friendly for all intents and purposes.

I remain optimistic about this team but it’s far too early to start handing out awards.  Real progress would be results in the Oct.

[frmr]

Just now, narduch said:

Fuck off.

You are literally telling people they don't have as smart a 'brain' as you. So ya. You are a condescending dickhead. 

Had you left that 1 line out of your post I may have taken your argument more seriously. 

 

First of all, I did not literally tell anyone that they "don't have as smart of a brain as me". If that's what you inferred from what I said, then cool for you. That's certainly not what the word "literally" means though.

Secondly, I really couldn't care less if that offended you or if you would have taken me more seriously if I worded it differently. I'm just saying what I think. Whether you agree or disagree that people are ignoring some of the off-pitch areas of progress under Herdman, that's completely up to you to decide. I've presented some reasons why I think that's the case, if you feel like you need to debate that, then go for it. Getting offended and calling me names doesn't really cast you in a light of being a master of logic and persuasion though.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, frmr said:

First of all, I did not literally tell anyone that they "don't have as smart of a brain as me". If that's what you inferred from what I said, then cool for you. That's certainly not what the word "literally" means though.

Secondly, I really couldn't care less if that offended you or if you would have taken me more seriously if I worded it differently. I'm just saying what I think. Whether you agree or disagree that people are ignoring some of the off-pitch areas of progress under Herdman, that's completely up to you to decide. I've presented some reasons why I think that's the case, if you feel like you need to debate that, then go for it. Getting offended and calling me names doesn't really cast you in a light of being a master of logic and persuasion though.

Did you not write this:

Honestly I think some people are just too lazy to use their brain and actually fully assess a situation and would rather just fall back on an habitual narrative which dictates their perspective.

[BrennanFan]

53 minutes ago, frmr said:

There's nothing lucky about it. Saying that it's luck that we're one favourable game away and a goal up from progressing further than we've been in almost 25 years is completely disregarding all of the hard work that the players, coaching staff, behind the scenes staff, etc have done in an extremely difficult and unique qualifying circuit during a global pandemic where we can't even play at home. We're heading into a final "home" match with a 1-0 lead on aggregate because we were able to basically dismantle a Suriname team with very good players, and win a very gutsy game on shitty pitch away from home against a team who thrives in that sort of situation. That's not luck. Honestly I think some people are just too lazy to use their brain and actually fully assess a situation and would rather just fall back on an habitual narrative which dictates their perspective.

The favourable situation Narduch referenced was the opponent. Having to get past Haiti to get to the final round simply does not compare to having to beat Honduras to get to that final stage, as we have had to do the past 2 cycles. 

The jury is still out on Herdman. Even with a win on Tues, he'll have accomplished nothing more than what was accomplished by Hart and Floro before him.

To be clear: Progressing further than we have in 25 years would require a top 6 finish in the Octagonal. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by BrennanFan

[frmr]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

Did you not write this:

Honestly I think some people are just too lazy to use their brain and actually fully assess a situation and would rather just fall back on an habitual narrative which dictates their perspective.

Yes I did, so you see I did not write that people don't have as smart a brain as me. Well done on working that out on your own.

 

[narduch]

1 minute ago, frmr said:

Yes I did, so you see I did not write that people don't have as smart a brain as me. Well done on working that out on your own.

 

That sentence is pure condescending bullocks. 

[frmr]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

That sentence is pure condescending bullocks. 

Yeah that one was, but it was kind of funny too. Now let's bury that hatchet and stop polluting the forum.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, frmr said:

Yes I did, so you see I did not write that people don't have as smart a brain as me. Well done on working that out on your own.

 

"...as smart as me" or "...as smart as I (do)"?

Which was it you actually said, wanted to say, and was the correct way to say it regardless of your brain?

[SoccMan]

8 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

The favourable situation Narduch referenced was the opponent. Having to get past Haiti to get to the final round simply does not compare to having to beat Honduras to get to that final stage, as we have had to do the past 2 cycles. 

The jury is still out on Herdman. Even with a win on Tues, he'll have accomplished nothing more than what was accomplished by Hart and Floro before him.

To be clear: Progressing further than we have in 25 years would require a top 6 finish in the Octagonal. 

I have to agree with this to a certain extent. Yes they have had to deal with the pandemic and not playing any home games, however ,  let’s be honest , they have not played any of the top historically 5 CONCACAF nations so far in this qualifying process up to now like they had to do in qualifying for the final round before. So if they end up making the final round they have had an easier pathway to it compared to all the other times they failed to make it since 1998. No away games in Honduras, Panama and Mexico or Costa Rica and with fans in the stands to overcome to make it to the Hex they had to face in all those previous qualifying years when they didn’t make it to the Hex. However, saying all that you still had to win and get results against the teams that were in front of you and so far they have which is good , but yes if they make it to the final round this is where we will really see what Herman is made of and how he does in conditions and against the best competition of the region that he hasn’t had to deal with in World Cup qualifying as of yet.

[dyslexic nam]

Imagine how snippy we would all be if we had lost.  

Damn. 

[gator]

28 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Imagine how snippy we would all be if we had lost.  

Damn. 

Imagine what this thread will be like if we don't get the job done Tuesday, which I am fairly confident we will? The knives will be out and I would be holding one of the biggest ones, when we advance I think that will be good progress unless we really crash and burn against the big boys in the next round!

[apbsmith]

This is an interesting internet debate, but honestly biggest CMNT game in 5 years is on Tuesday... Let's leave it at that for now. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by apbsmith

[Kent]

2018 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Mexico and Honduras, who ended up 1st and 4th in the Hex. They were also ranked 2nd and 4th in CONCACAF at the time of the draw.

2014 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Honduras and Panama, who ended up 3rd and 5th in the Hex. They were ranked 3rd and 7th in CONCACAF at the time of the draw.

2010 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Honduras, Mexico, and Jamaica. Mexico finished 2nd in the Hex, Honduras 3rd, and Jamaica were eliminated at the same stage as Canada. Those teams were ranked 1st, 4th, and 7th at the time of the draw.

2022 qualifying - we need to get past Suriname and Haiti. Suriname were ranked 15th and Haiti 10th at the time of the draw (although 15th is a bit deceptive for Suriname).

Yes, our path to the final round is easier this time around and it's valid to say we haven't over-achieved, but it's still very annoying how since the moment Herdman was hired the default was that he was on thin ice. When we hired Floro or Hart or whoever I don't think it was standard to say right from the start that if he doesn't win this next game he should be fired, for every game we play.

With the Herdman haters it seems that anything good that happens is due to the players, and anything bad that happens is due to Herdman. When Godinho gives up a penalty against Haiti, people say Herdman shouldn't have picked him. When Osorio gets an assist to Larin against Haiti, he isn't given any credit for starting them even though many on this board didn't want either to start. If players come out flat like against Suriname he must have had a bad pre-game talk. When the team comes out and breaks records for how many goals they score (or when they respond to the poor start and go on to win 4-0) he isn't given any credit for getting the best out of his players. It's just exhausting.

[SoccMan]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

2018 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Mexico and Honduras, who ended up 1st and 4th in the Hex. They were also ranked 2nd and 4th in CONCACAF at the time of the draw.

2014 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Honduras and Panama, who ended up 3rd and 5th in the Hex. They were ranked 3rd and 7th in CONCACAF at the time of the draw.

2010 qualifying - we were eliminated by finishing behind Honduras, Mexico, and Jamaica. Mexico finished 2nd in the Hex, Honduras 3rd, and Jamaica were eliminated at the same stage as Canada. Those teams were ranked 1st, 4th, and 7th at the time of the draw.

2022 qualifying - we need to get past Suriname and Haiti. Suriname were ranked 15th and Haiti 10th at the time of the draw (although 15th is a bit deceptive for Suriname).

Yes, our path to the final round is easier this time around and it's valid to say we haven't over-achieved, but it's still very annoying how since the moment Herdman was hired the default was that he was on thin ice. When we hired Floro or Hart or whoever I don't think it was standard to say right from the start that if he doesn't win this next game he should be fired, for every game we play.

With the Herdman haters it seems that anything good that happens is due to the players, and anything bad that happens is due to Herdman. When Godinho gives up a penalty against Haiti, people say Herdman shouldn't have picked him. When Osorio gets an assist to Larin against Haiti, he isn't given any credit for starting them even though many on this board didn't want either to start. If players come out flat like against Suriname he must have had a bad pre-game talk. When the team comes out and breaks records for how many goals they score (or when they respond to the poor start and go on to win 4-0) he isn't given any credit for getting the best out of his players. It's just exhausting.

This has nothing for me to do with hating Herdman in my post I was just stating the obvious and you have shown just how much more difficult it was to make the Hex in all those years Canada failed to make it. They have had an easier path including no away games with fans in countries like Honduras, Mexico , Panama and so on . If they make the final round I’m imagining fans in the stands in Honduras and all the other countries and this is when Herdman will experience the what it’s really like to play in these countries in World Cup qualifying. So far so good and hopefully Canada will make it to the final round where Herdman will be tested and some of these talented players will be tested too, but that’s all I want 14 games against better competition and playing against all that playing in CONCACAF has to offer .

[MtlMario]

The bottom line is going to be how we do in the final 8. We have to finish top 4 (at least) for him to keep his job ( if he doesn't get a better offer somewhere else and dumps us).😏