Jacob Shaffelburg

[Kent]

An expensive plan is still a plan. I don't understand what constitutes a plan if what TFC is doing isn't one. Is the only acceptable plan to build a roster in one particular virtuous way? When TFC brings in Laryea, Henry, and MAK it's just irresponsible throwing around of money. But when Montreal brings in ZBG, Miller, and Johnstone it's good hearted giving a home to CMNT players?

Yes TFC has had missed opportunities with players that are from the area and panned out elsewhere, and they have signed academy players and not given them playing time in the past as well, but they also have very much been giving plenty of players chances this season. Nelson and McNaughton have had breakout years, and plenty of other players have gotten lots of minutes and did decently with their time (Petrasso and Thompson mostly. JMR has been OK when he has been healthy. I've been less impressed with Kerr and Okello, and Akinola looks like he is still really out of shape and not effective). How many players per year does a team have to build up to the point of knocking on the door for the fringes of the national team? I would say 2 (Nelson and McNaughton) is a decent return in that regard in one season.

P.S. The Raptors don't have an academy, but they have done very, very, well at developing players in their system. They have had lots of undrafted players make a great impact with the team as an example. The only big signing they have had was Kawhi Leonard, unless you want to go way back to a washed up Hakeem Olajuwon.

[Metro]

37 minutes ago, Kent said:

P.S. The Raptors don't have an academy, but they have done very, very, well at developing players in their system. They have had lots of undrafted players make a great impact with the team as an example. The only big signing they have had was Kawhi Leonard, unless you want to go way back to a washed up Hakeem Olajuwon.

What, the reign of Hedo Turkoglu didn't impress you much? 😛 

[RS]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

P.S. The Raptors don't have an academy, but they have done very, very, well at developing players in their system. They have had lots of undrafted players make a great impact with the team as an example. The only big signing they have had was Kawhi Leonard, unless you want to go way back to a washed up Hakeem Olajuwon.

Yeah, without wading too far back into the perpetual argument over TFC, I also found the side-criticism of the Raptors strange (and patently untrue).

Looking at the likes of Fred VanVleet, Pascal Siakam, Chris Boucher, Scottie Barnes, etc. and saying that Raptors have a culture of spending lots and winning little is kind of absurd. Kawhi Leonard was acquired via a trade, and they couldn't re-sign him as a free agent even though they tried.

Raptors 905 is basically the model G-League franchise and has set the tone for how NBA teams can develop young players.

1 hour ago, Kent said:

When TFC brings in Laryea, Henry, and MAK it's just irresponsible throwing around of money. But when Montreal brings in ZBG, Miller, and Johnstone it's good hearted giving a home to CMNT players?

[narduch]

Starting tonight v Colorado 

[VinceA]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

Starting tonight v Colorado 

Scored Nashville's 3rd.

[canuckgbp]

 

[Bison44]

Johnny on the spot!!  "things just happen when Shaff is on the field" 

So happy for him..hope he finds a permanent home for next year.  

[narduch]

Good enough for a playoff bound MLS Western Conference team.

But not good enough for TFC.

And some suggested he should be loaned to CPL. Lmfao

Edited September 1, 2022 by narduch

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, looking like a great move for both him and his new club.  I really hope he can cement a solid role with the Nashville.   

[costarg]

35 minutes ago, narduch said:

Good enough for a playoff bound MLS Western Conference team.

But not good enough for TFC.

And some suggested he should be loaned to CPL. Lmfao

Yes, definitely maybe good enough for CPL.  Geez the TFC PR team kill me.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^just in case this is a bizarre misinterpretation of my recent posts any suggestion of sending him to an affiliate in CanPL was related to what might have been better for his development in 2019. Worth noting that I also highlighted that American MLS teams wanting players like Shaffelburg, Prso and Russell-Rowe that were viewed as surplus to requirements at TFC in 2022 is a sign that TFC is doing a better job than previouly on developing domestic players.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

If you didnt say it, why do you think the post is about you??  

[rkomar]

Shaffelburg had a shit show of a season for TFC before they traded him.  He looked good last season, but followed it up with a big regression.  He seems to be a better fit in Nashville, and both sides are better off after the trade.  So why continue bad-mouthing TFC for trading him while letting the player off the hook?

[Obinna]

I am only mildly surprised Schaffleburg is fitting Nashville like a glove. He's much more suited to the mentality and qualities of a team like that. I hope the move becomes permanent as that would be a happy ending in my eyes. It would also be another Canadian playing decent minutes for an American MLS team. Can never have too many of those, can you?

[narduch]

7 hours ago, rkomar said:

Shaffelburg had a shit show of a season for TFC before they traded him.  He looked good last season, but followed it up with a big regression.  He seems to be a better fit in Nashville, and both sides are better off after the trade.  So why continue bad-mouthing TFC for trading him while letting the player off the hook?

They tried to make him a left back.

When that failed he never got a chance again at his real position. 

That's not the players fault 

[rkomar]

I can remember him on the field and everything going wrong.  Stepping on the ball, falling on his ass, whiffing on kicks, dumb penalties,...  That wasn't about playing left back.  He is a better player than he showed, so something was getting in his way mentally.  Probably he was just trying too hard on his few chances and, ironically, making himself look worse.  Whatever the reason, that part of it was Shaffelburg's fault.

[RS]

Shaffelburg fits in quite nicely with Nashville, which is hardly a surprise given they're arguably the most direct team in the league.

Any argument that he should have played more at his real position this season at TFC is also an argument that Jayden Nelson shouldn't have played there for the first few months of the season, which is an odd thing to try to dunk on a Canadian club for. This is also completely ignoring who plays at Shaffelburg's position now.

[Obinna]

28 minutes ago, RS said:

Shaffelburg fits in quite nicely with Nashville, which is hardly a surprise given they're arguably the most direct team in the league.

Any argument that he should have played more at his real position this season at TFC is also an argument that Jayden Nelson shouldn't have played there for the first few months of the season, which is an odd thing to try to dunk on a Canadian club for. This is also completely ignoring who plays at Shaffelburg's position now.

This is the biggest thing for me. Shaffelburg was obviously not going to get time out on the wings with the Italian DPs. It's the same reason BB moved Nelson inside, in my view.

Jayden has the tight control to play in the middle, but that's not Jacob's best quality. It was play outside or bust.

They did try him at left back to start the season, which to me was a vote of confidence.

Yes @narduch, that was technically out of position for him, and it didn't go well, but why revert him back to a wing? It's not like he had a future in that position at TFC.

Even if you argue he could be a valuable substitute for Bernadeschi or Insigne, he's not really a TFC player. He's more of a Nashville player. And conversely, I would argue Nelson is the opposite. That's why it makes sense, at least to me, that Toronto chose to invest in Jayden, and did so by moving him in the middle, knowing he can play out wide in a pinch (it's his natural position). The versatility is valuable and Shaffelburg doesn't have that to the same degree, though at least they explored it by playing him at left back. 

Moving Jacob on was the best thing for him, Toronto and Canada. It's a win-win-win thus far.

And given his form, would it be crazy for him to sneak onto the September roster? He did play in a few WCQs.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Obinna

[RS]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

They did try him at left back to start the season, which to me was a vote of confidence.

Yes, they could've simply benched him from the start. Bradley's not an idiot, he knows Shaffelburg has talent, but the fit simply wasn't there for the style TFC plays.

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And given his form, would it be crazy for him to sneak onto the September roster? He did play in a few WCQs.

It depends on how experimental Herdman wants to be. We know he'll call in as many of the regulars as possible, but depending on the size of the camp there may be room for fringe national teamers like Shaffelburg.

That being said, Canada Soccer has not shown the willingness to put together "big" camps outside of the odd January call-ups, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Obinna]

Just now, RS said:

Yes, they could've simply benched him from the start. Bradley's not an idiot, he knows Shaffelburg has talent, but the fit simply wasn't there for the style TFC plays.

It depends on how experimental Herdman wants to be. We know he'll call in as many of the regulars as possible, but depending on the size of the camp there may be room for fringe national teamers like Shaffelburg.

That being said, Canada Soccer has not shown the willingness to put together "big" camps outside of the odd January call-ups, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Agreed. Totally depends on the type of roster Herdman assembles. I expect something "first choice" with maybe a few surprises, but not many. No time to get all fancy.

I think Corbeanu is making a strong case right now, and if Stefan Mitrovic is willing and ready I'd like to think Herdman would make room (more of a long shot imo), so that's two possible bubble players that could block his path, though if Byrm is considered a winger I think Schaff may have the inside track on him at the moment. 

[TOcanadafan]

 

On 9/1/2022 at 11:19 AM, Obinna said:

Agreed. Totally depends on the type of roster Herdman assembles. I expect something "first choice" with maybe a few surprises, but not many. No time to get all fancy.

I think Corbeanu is making a strong case right now, and if Stefan Mitrovic is willing and ready I'd like to think Herdman would make room (more of a long shot imo), so that's two possible bubble players that could block his path, though if Byrm is considered a winger I think Schaff may have the inside track on him at the moment. 

As much as I am a fan of Shaff, he seems to be Liam Millar 2.0, so I doubt he’s even being considered at this point for the final squad.

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

 

As much as I am a fan of Shaff, he seems to be Liam Millar 2.0, so I doubt he’s even being considered at this point for the final squad.

That's a complement to Shaff. Millar is far better with the ball at his feet. His central play is far superior as well. The main similarity there is that both players have a lot of pace and can play vertically. However, Shaff so far hasn't demonstrated he can play any other way than vertical, but Millar has. He's a far more rounded player. 

Happy to have both in the pool, of course. None of that was to shit on Jacob. He's 22, playing in MLS, and approaching 100 professional matches in all competitions. He establishing himself as a professional and won't fall out of the pro game like some of our young players did in the past, like Gabe Gala or Matt Stintson. 

Edit:

To add, I would say that Shaff is definitely on the outside as far as call ups go. As good as his form has been in Nashville, I still think he's behind Millar and Corbenau. Last night I was looking at the depth chart and came to the conclusion we are unlikely to call Millar AND Corbeanu, so I think Jacob's chances are slim to say the least. That said, I think Herdman is definitely watching and considering him. The longer his good play continues, the more JH will take note, and the better his small chance becomes.

Not a prediction, but if Jacob keeps playing and scoring for Nashville, and Corbeanu does the same for Blackpool, it could be Millar that's left out for September.

Basel is kind of struggling right now and Herdman knows what he's getting from Millar, so there aren't many questions with him. 

The questions are with Corbeanu and Shaff. Does their form translate to the national team? If we lose some wingers to injury before the WC, can Herdman rely on these guys to step up against WC caliber teams? Herdman could call both to find out and leave Millar in Switzerland.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Obinna

[Bison44]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:36 AM, rkomar said:

I can remember him on the field and everything going wrong.  Stepping on the ball, falling on his ass, whiffing on kicks, dumb penalties,...  That wasn't about playing left back.  He is a better player than he showed, so something was getting in his way mentally.  Probably he was just trying too hard on his few chances and, ironically, making himself look worse.  Whatever the reason, that part of it was Shaffelburg's fault.

Hmmm, like thinking about learning a new position, more defensive responsibilities etc?? 

Doesnt matter now, as others have posted.. no room for wingers when they were bringing in 2 DP starters, so a good move all around to move him out to someone that will use him and TFC got the garber bucks.  As far as CMNT, no rush at his age, he has been in camps already, gotten in a few games, but there is a lot of depth at wing.  He needs to keep his job with Nashville (MLS), keep poaching some goals, working on rounding out his game and he'll be at his prime in 2026.  

[Macksam]

7 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

 

As much as I am a fan of Shaff, he seems to be Liam Millar 2.0, so I doubt he’s even being considered at this point for the final squad.

No, they're different cats altogether.

Liam Millar has Tajon-esqe tenacity and with his hard work and dedication, he will become our best player in a couple years alongside Tajon himself and Theo. 

Shaf is a little more simple in how he plays, not to say he won't do great things but he has a ways to go so far. 

[maccaliam]

I would say Jacob is more a Tyler Pasher 2.0. Relatively similar game from what I’ve seen, and while they can put in a good run of form for their club, ultimately, I don’t envision either ever being a national team regular.