Mo Farsi

[The Real Marc]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Realistically though, you can't just cap tie young players unless they have earned it or exhibit something special early  like Kone. With NL we play very few if any friendlies and we've had WCQ over the past 2 yrs. Farsi is in his 2nd MLS season and rightly got the call to be on an extended list. This despite having serious competition at RB/RWB. Born and raised in Canada, cut his teeth in CPL and called up in his 2nd MLS season. He is still young. It's not like he was ignored until 25. What more  could he ask for? This is on Farsi not Herdman 

But I guarantee you that no player thinks like this. Every one of them thinks they are special, and every one of them feels they've earned the right. And for most when they aren't called it's a slight.

He's been on the radar for three years and only gets a call now, and only to a provisional long list? Yeah I can see why that may not appeal, to his career or his ego.

I'm not crapping on Herdman. Guys like this are playing the field and that's their opportunity. Sometimes they do it openly, maybe like Farsi, sometimes they use us as leverage, like Mitrovic.

The point here is not that we need to cap tie every kid with another passport.

The point is we need to find ways to integrate guys like Farsi, Mitrovic, maybe Sigur, etc., into the program so they feel invested in it. So when they do get the call up it isn't seen as cynical or mis-timed.

Serbia found a spot for Mitrovic. Romania found space for Sali. But we can't find a way to get these guys into camps or games?

Whether that is is larger camps, B teams, more friendlies, we can't be waiting til prospects start lighting it up to call them up. We don't have that luxury.

It's not about tie-ing them down. It's about ensuring that when they do merit a chance, they won't be thinking "Oh, so it's now you want me...!"

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by The Real Marc

[PiedPilko]

Just now, The Real Marc said:

I guarantee you that no player thinks like this. Every one of them thinks they are special, and every one of them feels they've earned the right.

He's been on the radar for three years and only gets a call now, and only to a provisional long list? Yeah I can see why that may not appeal, to his career or his ego.

The point here is not that we need to cap tie every kid with another passport.

The point is we need to find ways to integrate guys like Farsi, Mitrovic, maybe Sigur, into the program so they feel invested in it. So when they do get the call up it isn't seen as cynical or mis-timed.

Whether that is is larger camps, B teams, more friendlies, we can't be waiting til prospects start lighting it up to call them up. We don't have that luxury.

Otherwise when they do merit a chance, they won't be thinking "Oh, so now you want me...!"

 

He did make an appearance for our u23s. 

And I'm sorry to say this, but Farsi didn't look all that great in cpl for large parts of his last year at Cavalry. You should absolutely not get a straight path to the national team for being a dual in cpl. Credit to him for climbing so far, but even in domestic camps, we're not generally gonna be seeing cpl players. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Just now, The Real Marc said:

Whether that is is larger camps, B teams, more friendlies, we can't be waiting til prospects start lighting it up to call them up. We don't have that luxury.

I would add that the real place we should be integrating prospects is youth camps and tournaments.   Those are "luxuries" we don't have many of either.

 

[InglewoodJack]

I think the only thing that could’ve brought Farsi closer to Canada is if CF Montreal didn’t reject him several times, maybe he’d have made his debut younger, played this well at 21 and gotten the Kone call up.

 

but above that, he played PLSQ. he played CPL. He plays MLS. He played for our U23. He’s played extensively with JRR, another Canadian, and to my knowledge, no Algerian NT players. Canada is ranked comparatively to Algeria, we have a World Cup at home in 3 years that he would all but certain my crack the roster for. This is step for step the ideal dev path for a Canadian player at least until the CPL grows to the point where it can product national players directly. At a certain point, if the guy wants to play for another country, he’s gonna play for them.

 

Serbia made room for Mitrovic, sure, but he’s currently being linked to Barcelona and a few other teams (inb4 rumours are just hot air!! Point is he’s an internationally recognized strong prospect), Sali was I believe the youngest player to make a pro debut in Romania- these are special circumstances and just 6 months ago, Farsi was playing in NextPro- it would’ve been a farce to call up a NP player, especially when JRR playing like Haaland couldn’t (and shouldn’t) get a call.

 

it sucks. I don’t buy the argument that the path to minutes without Algeria is easier and that’s what is guiding his decision, especially since most guys ahead of him are MLS, and you have to think Farsi expects to play in Europe before long. These guys think they’re all hot shit so they expect to be that dude for whatever team they work with. If we’re losing this guy to a foreign country, it’s either because he has zero faith in Canada or he’s making a Freddie Freeman decision where he’s going to make an emotional decision to represent his family’s country and that’s that. 
 

really hope he comes to his senses. I don’t have it in me to root against a local boy, but by god I will do it if I have to.

[InglewoodJack]

4 hours ago, shorty said:

I think that’s a good call, given that Herdman apparently has pretty frank conversations with players about their pathways. I imagine the conversation went something like this:

JH: you would definitely get a call, and you might get some sub minutes

MF: I’m worried that with Canada I end up behind some young guys and only ever get sub minutes. Algeria might be a path to international starts sooner.

JH: I get that. Think about it. From my end I’m going to pull you from the long list for this one because I don’t want Algeria to rush capping you thinking they’re going to lose you. Lots of countries do that but I don’t do that. Take your time and if you change your mind about a camp, the doors open.

ps Jury’s out on Herdman capping guys he thinks we might lose, but I think he genuinely doesn’t. Guys we’ve capped and not used much either haven’t performed or have been out-competed for spots. I get the sense that someone like an Ugbo was told exactly what he could expect if he came over.  JH is consistently slow and careful (too slow and careful for some) with how he incorporates new players. That would only wash with the bench players if they had gone in eyes wide open and knowing JH had been straight with them.

 

Yeah, I think it’s this. Herdman is also probably fairly close with Wilfrid Nancy given that CC has 3 Canadians on their team and IMFC had like a dozen, so my feeling is that they’ve had a lot of discussions about Farsi, he was going to play actual minutes given he’s good enough and we’ve got squad cycling coming up with the gold cup, so he must’ve told them not to bother because of Algeria, so in return we took him off the list. 
 

RE: capping guys, we also have to consider that Herdman et al. have to worry about the future, sure, but their main focus is on the present, because he has a relatively small window before he’s ultimately fired as all coaches do. It’s nice to cynically captie Koleosho or call in a 17 year old Mitrovic for some minutes back when he was at Niš, but you put those guys in a game, they get scored on, you drop points. And all of a sudden the question isn’t whether Herdman can recruit, it’s whether he can actually coach. 

[Stoppage Time]

Overall, I am disappointed that Farsi is not on the list. He would be the CPL graduate poster boy. It does irk me that a footballer born and raised  and developed in Canada would not be thrilled to be selected to a CMNT roster - if he is, in fact, not thrilled to be considered. It would be good to have a reporter interview Farsi.

[Approve My Account Pls]

I think Joshua Kloke's article in the Athletic falls in line more with the optimistic line of thinking:

Given his play and his previous appearances for Canada's national U-23 side, he's drawn interest from John Herdman's side. The Athletic has learned Farsi declined an invitation for Canada's Nations League squad. Farsi is interested in possibly playing for Canada but is also eligible to play for Algeria. 

Had Farsi committed to Canada, he might have been low down the team's depth chart and only featured in limited minutes in the team's Gold Cup squad. So it's likely Farsi continues to practice patient, add different elements to his game before making a decision on his international future. 

[jordan]

 

[InglewoodJack]

His choice and all that but just funny hearing someone making what is probably like a respectable middle class salary talking about “my entourage”.

[king1010]

He has multiple agents? 

I get it that it's his choice, but some of these guys utilized all our resources from youth clubs, colleges, semi pro CPL, youth national teams and as soon as they get one sniff from another country they're ready(or at least contemplating the decision) to bolt. Disappointing to say the least. 

[Floortom]

Like I said - I hope he’s frozen out of both teams and we never call him again.   

[InglewoodJack]

Again, his choice and it’s all about doing what’s best for his career, but this feels like a Flores situation. Like cool, you’re weighing your options and doing the will I won’t I thing, but like… buddy you play in the MLS. One bad season and you won’t even qualify for team Quebec let alone Canada and Algeria. 

[Floortom]

39 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Again, his choice and it’s all about doing what’s best for his career, but this feels like a Flores situation. Like cool, you’re weighing your options and doing the will I won’t I thing, but like… buddy you play in the MLS. One bad season and you won’t even qualify for team Quebec let alone Canada and Algeria. 

Much worse than the Flores situation. Marcelo played most of his formative years in England - he moved there as a 12 year old. He also was playing with the Mexico youth teams since he was 15. He has a deep connection with Mexican FA. Nothing at all like Farsi.

 

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Much worse than the Flores situation. Marcelo played most of his formative years in England - he moved there as a 12 year old. He also was playing with the Mexico youth teams since he was 15. He has a deep connection with Mexican FA. Nothing at all like Farsi.

 

Just meant a player severely overplaying his hand- Flores had an interview with ESPN to announce his intention to not make a decision until Mexico's coach had to come out and basically tell him to be respectful to both teams and figure his situation out and a year later, we're hearing that there's a good chance he ends up in Liga MX next year, which, not a terrible league at all, but it's not looking like he's the difference maker he expected to be this time last year, at least not for a while.

As far as "worse", it's hard for me to discredit a player for capping for another country because Canadians have all sorts of different connections to this country and the country his family comes from so I can't judge that too much, but agreed that he's the exact profile of a guy who shouldn't play for anyone but us. Born, raised, developed here, etc.

Also interesting because in Montreal there are some areas with massive north african populations and you can sorta figure out why someone would feel more Moroccan or Algerian living in certain areas, but Farsi is from NDG which is as "Canadian" a neighbourhood as you can find in Quebec in terms of a diverse, multilingual neighbourhood where people generally feel part of a close community- there is a ton of diversity and new arrivals to Canada who are very proud of their culture, but nothing like on the east end where you were having parades for every Morocco victory at the world cup or where people had an impromptu street fest when Portugal won the euros. Again this means little because his intentions are clearly to wait it out, but from the way he was developed down to where he even grew up, this is the profile of a guy who shouldn't think twice about playing for Canada.

I read somewhere he repped Canada and won some Tae Kwon Do tournaments as a teenager. We can't use those caps to lock him in for soccer, huh?

Edited May 29, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[grigorio]

1 hour ago, king1010 said:

He has multiple agents? 

I get it that it's his choice, but some of these guys utilized all our resources from youth clubs, colleges, semi pro CPL, youth national teams and as soon as they get one sniff from another country they're ready(or at least contemplating the decision) to bolt. Disappointing to say the least. 

Wonder what the "brotherhood" has to say about this. Guys like Arfield got frozen cause of slightly wavering commitment despite having actually committed to and captaining the National Team. How should national team teammates building this ethos of fighting for the country supposed to take to these dual nats who could go either way depending on what maybe projects out better for their career? If Herdman's willing to block way more accomplished players who maybe slightly wavered from suiting up at some point, why should the door remain open to a Canadian through-and-through who isn't quite feeling it?

Edited May 29, 2023 by grigorio

[Acid-Tone]

Maybe Junior Hoilett could lead that conversation, eh?

[Ottawafan]

Never quite understood the scorned fan willing to shut the door on a player for a perceived slight.  It is his decision, one that will affect him and his family for life.  

As for Arfield, closing the door on him hurt Canada in Qatar.  He would have made the squad better.

[InglewoodJack]

I think the "brotherhood" would get it because they're all guys who know they have one shot to make their money in their career and making the wrong choices could end up hurting you in the long run. When I think of that "core", you think of guys like Hoilett or Eustaquio who are both playing for their second choice national team. I mean, hell, Eustaquio went from trying to play for Portugal to now whenever you hear him talk about playing for Canada, he treats it like the greatest privilege he's ever earned.

I get bitter when you see these decisions play out in real time but if he decides he's actually really Canadian and plays for us, then welcome to the club. But until then, I'm going to be a hater.

[Kadenge]

You could also add Vitoria to that list. It's very disappointing about Farsi especially as he came through the CPL and now with MLS, but it is possible that JH told him he may not get much playing time if he was selected, given the logjam at RB/RWB. IF that's the case AND he's being honest about waiting, then I'm somewhat ok with that for now.

[king1010]

26 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Never quite understood the scorned fan willing to shut the door on a player for a perceived slight.  It is his decision, one that will affect him and his family for life.  

As for Arfield, closing the door on him hurt Canada in Qatar.  He would have made the squad better.

I think it's pretty understandable given this is a Canadian soccer supporter forum discussing a guy who used almost every Canadian soccer development resource to get to where he is. 

[Ottawafan]

17 minutes ago, king1010 said:

I think it's pretty understandable given this is a Canadian soccer supporter forum discussing a guy who used almost every Canadian soccer development resource to get to where he is. 

Spurned ex boyfriend syndrome I suppose.  

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Spurned ex boyfriend syndrome I suppose.  

not remotely comparable. odd take

maybe if you lived in the ex boyfriends house, used his money for tuition, food, room and board then finished school, got a CEO job and dumped your boyfriend for someone else, then I suppose

Edited May 29, 2023 by king1010

[Ottawafan]

Just now, king1010 said:

not remotely comparable. odd take

Spoken like a true scorned ex.  He chooses another country, move on.

[king1010]

Just now, Ottawafan said:

Spoken like a true scorned ex.  He chooses another country, move on.

I suppose

[Borjans Sweatpants]

I see both sides of this argument.

Ya, would suck to have him use our systems and development resources to get where he is, but then we encourage Jebbison to stay within the UK system as long as possible and to switch to us later because our youth system is a joke 😆

Different levels of players but you see what I'm getting at. Can't be ok with it one side and not understand that it can happen to you. Plus, the more players we're producing the better. Some will leave, but some will stick, and as we improve over time, more will want to stick.