Mo Farsi

[InglewoodJack]

29 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I disagree. Using your logic of "im better than everyone", every player would always fight for a spot at their club but players leave their clubs regularly for more playing time. Even if you think youre the best player, you can still be realistic about the liklihood of playing time you will receive. 

How could players not think about the depth chart. These guys arent stupid. AJ is an ironman in the squad, laryea is incredibly trusted, buchanan is likely going to a champions league finalist, Sigur is starting in croatia, franklin is starting to emerge, We could even talk about how the emergence of a guy like bombito increases the liklihood that AJ moves to RWB or that we play with a back 4 (both scenarios are bad for farsi), choiniere can play WB, zator can play RB in a back 4, ZBG has experience with the national team. However, only 1 RB plays at a time and theres so many things that have to happen for farsi to become the number 1 choice. 

Sure, farsi probably thinks hes better than ZBG, franklin and choiniere but farsi isnt dumb enough to think that JH sees him as the best RB option for canada. Maybe one day but that is a HUGE maybe. Why should he gamble on a HUGE maybe instead of waiting to see how he develops. 

This board seems really upset at farsi for not picking Canada but I see this as a move for him to figure out if hes even good enough for either squad. 

Yeah when you experience the tangible effects of not playing you will eventually leave the team and try and get better minutes, but how many players have joined a team beyond their level only to never play because they thought they were actually better than they really were? Every summer you get big transfers that end up flopping for this exact reason. In fact, people applaud Haaland's development path because he went Norway -> Austria -> Germany -> England despite him getting offers from the premier league quite some time ago.

Just saying that I doubt Farsi or any exciting young player is going to look at any of the names you're mentioning and see them as these guys they will never be able to move past. None of those guys are bonafide world stars who are beyond the reach of what a young player can potentially accomplish. AJ is a fantastic and ascending player but he plays for Celtic, not exactly the pinnacle of European soccer. Laryea could not cut it in the second division of England. Buchanan could go to Inter, just rumors for now, but he also plays different positions. Every other name you list is irrelevant- Bombito can barely crack an MLS roster let alone our national team, Sigur is Croatian, Franklin has been known for all of 3 weeks, Choiniere is good but no one who has bigger aspirations for their career think they'll never reach his level, Zator is in Poland and ZBG... ZBG is probably the most overrated player in our pool. He has 7 caps for Canada and I would be shocked if he hasn't played well over 50% of the caps he'll ever play for us (unless we really start doing MLS-only roster builds).

 

This isn't a knock on Farsi, it's just the reality of how professional athletes see themselves. Farsi is the talk of the town all over MLS, he's now being approached by two different national teams, he's still relatively young, it would be crazy if he and his entourage saw him as nothing more than just an MLS/low european league level player. Not saying he thinks he could walk into a Canada camp and steal Alistair Johnston's job tomorrow, but our RB depth chart isn't exactly filled with guys that any professional player at a decent level would look at and think there's no way they can compete. 

If Farsi's heart was in it, if he thought that CANMNT had pull in getting him to a better club via exposure he wouldn't reject the call because of the guys in front of him. The players ahead of him all started out in MLS and for a player in Farsi's position, there's no reason not to think you can be better than all of them and with the form he's in and the attention he's getting, no one should blame him if he's confident that he'll be the best of that entire bunch. I just don't think that's the thing that prevents guys from capping unless we had an 85M valued 23 year old RB playing for one of the biggest teams in Europe.

Edited May 30, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah when you experience the tangible effects of not playing you will eventually leave the team and try and get better minutes, but how many players have joined a team beyond their level only to never play because they thought they were actually better than they really were? Every summer you get big transfers that end up flopping for this exact reason. In fact, people applaud Haaland's development path because he went Norway -> Austria -> Germany -> England despite him getting offers from the premier league quite some time ago.

Just saying that I doubt Farsi or any exciting young player is going to look at any of the names you're mentioning and see them as these guys they will never be able to move past. None of those guys are bonafide world stars who are beyond the reach of what a young player can potentially accomplish. AJ is a fantastic and ascending player but he plays for Celtic, not exactly the pinnacle of European soccer. Laryea could not cut it in the second division of England. Buchanan could go to Inter, just rumors for now, but he also plays different positions. Every other name you list is irrelevant- Bombito can barely crack an MLS roster let alone our national team, Sigur is Croatian, Franklin has been known for all of 3 weeks, Choiniere is good but no one who has bigger aspirations for their career think they'll never reach his level, Zator is in Poland and ZBG... ZBG is probably the most overrated player in our pool. He has 7 caps for Canada and I would be shocked if he hasn't played well over 50% of the caps he'll ever play for us (unless we really start doing MLS-only roster builds).

 

This isn't a knock on Farsi, it's just the reality of how professional athletes see themselves. Farsi is the talk of the town all over MLS, he's now being approached by two different national teams, he's still relatively young, it would be crazy if he and his entourage saw him as nothing more than just an MLS/low european league level player. Not saying he thinks he could walk into a Canada camp and steal Alistair Johnston's job tomorrow, but our RB depth chart isn't exactly filled with guys that any professional player at a decent level would look at and think there's no way they can compete. 

If Farsi's heart was in it, if he thought that CANMNT had pull in getting him to a better club via exposure he wouldn't reject the call because of the guys in front of him. The players ahead of him all started out in MLS and for a player in Farsi's position, there's no reason not to think you can be better than all of them and with the form he's in and the attention he's getting, no one should blame him if he's confident that he'll be the best of that entire bunch. I just don't think that's the thing that prevents guys from capping unless we had an 85M valued 23 year old RB playing for one of the biggest teams in Europe.

Youre right that players flop but that doesnt mean that this is the rule. In fact, your example of haaland could be similar to what farsi is doing with the national team. He is patient and doesnt take too big a leap too early. Using your example of players taking to big of a leap and then flopping can be attributed to farsi. The CMNT is too big a leap for him based on todays depth charts. 

All of your points on the other options are fair to an extent. However, if we only look at today then farsi has absolutely zero chance of starting for canada. If we look at farsi's potential, then we need to look at the potential of the entire depth chart. Its not accurate to discount every single player in the depth chart on behalf of farsi. There is absolutely no way that he is delusional enough to discount all these options ahead of him, especially with JH telling him the depth chart ranking. However, I do agree that farsi may think he could reach a higher level, but hes surely not naive enough to think its a 100% lock that hes a top 5 league player. If he is not delusional, he understands hes low on the depth chart currently. If hes not delusional, he knows that hes not 100% guaranteed to be a star in the future. Based on those 2 assumptions, why would he commit to canada if he's currently not going to play and he doesnt have a guarantee he will ever play? It makes way more sense to see if he can make it to europe before committing. 

If farsi's heart was 100% committed to canada and his brain had zero impact on his decision making then I agree that farsi would commit to canada. However, I just dont understand your logic with timing. Farsi is currently not good enough for canada. Why would he trap himself in? Look at sali or mitrovic. They are likely going to be good enough one day for romania/serbia but who knows. 

Everything your saying about farsi believing he can become the best RB for canada can still be true without farsi cap tying himself years before farsi actually proves he is the best. He doesnt need to commit today in order to believe he will one day become the best RB for canada. 

[InglewoodJack]

28 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Youre right that players flop but that doesnt mean that this is the rule. In fact, your example of haaland could be similar to what farsi is doing with the national team. He is patient and doesnt take too big a leap too early. Using your example of players taking to big of a leap and then flopping can be attributed to farsi. The CMNT is too big a leap for him based on todays depth charts. 

All of your points on the other options are fair to an extent. However, if we only look at today then farsi has absolutely zero chance of starting for canada. If we look at farsi's potential, then we need to look at the potential of the entire depth chart. Its not accurate to discount every single player in the depth chart on behalf of farsi. There is absolutely no way that he is delusional enough to discount all these options ahead of him, especially with JH telling him the depth chart ranking. However, I do agree that farsi may think he could reach a higher level, but hes surely not naive enough to think its a 100% lock that hes a top 5 league player. If he is not delusional, he understands hes low on the depth chart currently. If hes not delusional, he knows that hes not 100% guaranteed to be a star in the future. Based on those 2 assumptions, why would he commit to canada if he's currently not going to play and he doesnt have a guarantee he will ever play? It makes way more sense to see if he can make it to europe before committing. 

If farsi's heart was 100% committed to canada and his brain had zero impact on his decision making then I agree that farsi would commit to canada. However, I just dont understand your logic with timing. Farsi is currently not good enough for canada. Why would he trap himself in? Look at sali or mitrovic. They are likely going to be good enough one day for romania/serbia but who knows. 

Everything your saying about farsi believing he can become the best RB for canada can still be true without farsi cap tying himself years before farsi actually proves he is the best. He doesnt need to commit today in order to believe he will one day become the best RB for canada. 

His hear is definitely not committed to Canada, I just don't think that playing time factors into that. Playing for Algeria can give him more exposure to European clubs via better competition in continental tournaments. He might think that he has a bright future in Europe and that being Algerian opens him up to more marketing opportunities. I just don't think any name in our depth chart is so insurmountable that he's going to delay his decision until he's "good enough", I think it purely has to do with waiting until the best decision for his career becomes clear and then he'll do that.

I'm looking at this from the player's camp's perspective, not from an objective analysis of the situation. I think AJ will move on to a better team down the line, but Farsi's "team" is probably telling him that they can get him in France before age 25, or that they think he's going to be a Bundesliga player within 3 years or something. I know people who do work with CF Montreal's youth development and many of the players you see on our bench right now are fully expecting to be in Serie A or Ligue 1 in a few seasons. I also know Jonathan Osorio hired an English agent last year to go sniff around the premier league to try and find any interest. Not saying these guys are bad, but players see themselves at a higher level than fans do, and in the hypothetical situation where national team status didn't affect club career whatsoever and the only consideration was who else plays at his position, I doubt Farsi would look at any of our guys as players he can't beat out. And we should want our players to be like that. Next Man up.

 

[Bigandy]

36 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

His hear is definitely not committed to Canada, I just don't think that playing time factors into that. Playing for Algeria can give him more exposure to European clubs via better competition in continental tournaments. He might think that he has a bright future in Europe and that being Algerian opens him up to more marketing opportunities. I just don't think any name in our depth chart is so insurmountable that he's going to delay his decision until he's "good enough", I think it purely has to do with waiting until the best decision for his career becomes clear and then he'll do that.

I'm looking at this from the player's camp's perspective, not from an objective analysis of the situation. I think AJ will move on to a better team down the line, but Farsi's "team" is probably telling him that they can get him in France before age 25, or that they think he's going to be a Bundesliga player within 3 years or something. I know people who do work with CF Montreal's youth development and many of the players you see on our bench right now are fully expecting to be in Serie A or Ligue 1 in a few seasons. I also know Jonathan Osorio hired an English agent last year to go sniff around the premier league to try and find any interest. Not saying these guys are bad, but players see themselves at a higher level than fans do, and in the hypothetical situation where national team status didn't affect club career whatsoever and the only consideration was who else plays at his position, I doubt Farsi would look at any of our guys as players he can't beat out. And we should want our players to be like that. Next Man up.

 

But what is he waiting for? Surely his agents will have a good idea of which national team will give him better marketing opportunities. If they dont know that today, why would they learn that in the future (unless of course he commits and then they find out in real time). If he isnt waiting to see which team he can make, what exactly is the missing piece of information that he doesnt have today but will have in the future, yet still prior to committing to a national team? 

The most obvious answer to me is that the marketing opportunities do not matter if you cant make the team. Farsi cant make canadas team and cant make algerias team. Its a little early to be thinking about which team gives you better sponsorship deals if youre not on either team. 

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The most obvious answer to me is that the marketing opportunities do not matter if you cant make the team. Farsi cant make canadas team and cant make algerias team. Its a little early to be thinking about which team gives you better sponsorship deals if youre not on either team. 

I think we have to acknowledge that "making a team" is not the obstacle you make it out to be when there are friendlies to be played. Algeria has a few coming up, supposedly. We do not. That's advantage Algeria and honestly, it's smart for the player to use a friendly to explore his "other option" so long as it doesn't cap tie him. 

Or to twist it around:

You're right. Farsi wouldn't have made a competitive Canada team gunning for the NL trophy. 

[InglewoodJack]

21 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

But what is he waiting for? Surely his agents will have a good idea of which national team will give him better marketing opportunities. If they dont know that today, why would they learn that in the future (unless of course he commits and then they find out in real time). If he isnt waiting to see which team he can make, what exactly is the missing piece of information that he doesnt have today but will have in the future, yet still prior to committing to a national team? 

The most obvious answer to me is that the marketing opportunities do not matter if you cant make the team. Farsi cant make canadas team and cant make algerias team. Its a little early to be thinking about which team gives you better sponsorship deals if youre not on either team. 

What is he waiting for? I don't know, honestly. I think and this is just based on inference, that Herdman let him know that he has a spot on our NT and if he is interested he will make the team. I assume he is waiting to hear about that from Algeria. Or perhaps his agent thinks he can get him into a big European league soon and Algeria's coach told him if Farsi goes to Europe, they'll cap him. I don't know. I think it goes like this: he thinks Algeria is a better opportunity, he thinks he has the chops to make their roster sooner than later, Algeria told him that if he can move up a step they'll call him in, his agents are telling him that move is in the cards in the near future and so he's going to wait and see if there's anything there for him.

To your second point, look at Marcelo Flores. He was already working with a marketing agency in Mexico and now he can't make either our team or theirs (or England's) and it's looking like he might not even be playing in Europe next year. Doesn't matter what is realistic, it matters what the player thinks is attainable. In terms of "not being able to make our team"- Liam Fraser plays for us. Kyle Hiebert saw the pitch. Can't remember if Zator actually played or not, but if you're Mo Farsi, you know that if those guys are on the team, you can make it too.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The full interview with Farsi:

https://lagazettedufennec.com/mohamed-farsi-jai-refuse-le-canada-et-la-can-2023-avec-lalgerie-pourrait-etre-un-objectif/amp/

[InglewoodJack]

Yeah, so he wants to play for Algeria, he wants to play in African Nations League, he thinks he belongs in the Bundesliga and his agents are talking to European clubs. Seems like he has a preference and he's waiting for Algeria to call him in. Funny how none of these on the fence guys do press with Canada when they do their whole song and dance, just the other country.

Find it funny how you get a guy like Mitrovic whose dad was so offended that his kid didn't get looked at by CPL and that stayed with them, whereas Farsi went to Algeria, didn't play a single minute, came back to Canada where he got a huge chance, and now he's like "yeah my time in algeria was super valuable to me". We can't win huh?

 

Cap him then drop him. Haregraves him. Whatever.

Edited May 30, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[The Real Marc]

I can appreciate the allure of playing for Algeria - beyond the family ties, it might provide more exposure to Europe.

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah, so he wants to play for Algeria, he wants to play in African Nations League, he thinks he belongs in the Bundesliga and his agents are talking to European clubs. Seems like he has a preference and he's waiting for Algeria to call him in. Funny how none of these on the fence guys do press with Canada when they do their whole song and dance, just the other country.

Find it funny how you get a guy like Mitrovic whose dad was so offended that his kid didn't get looked at by CPL and that stayed with them, whereas Farsi went to Algeria, didn't play a single minute, came back to Canada where he got a huge chance, and now he's like "yeah my time in algeria was super valuable to me". We can't win huh?

 

Cap him then drop him. Haregraves him. Whatever.

I can appreciate your take here and kind of feel the same way, but on the flipside, we don't want guys who are dreaming of playing elsewhere and just see Canada as a means to an end. Why would we want players like this? These guys are always going to exist and all the power to them. It's not a uniquely Canadian problem, surely.

We have so much talent in this country that I am not really fussed. These guys will always exist. Guys like Borjan, David and Davies will always exist. Guys who are inbetweeners (Eustaquio...Vitoria) will always exist. Thing is, depth is important if not critical, but you can only name 18 and can only dress 11. 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think we have to acknowledge that "making a team" is not the obstacle you make it out to be when there are friendlies to be played. Algeria has a few coming up, supposedly. We do not. That's advantage Algeria and honestly, it's smart for the player to use a friendly to explore his "other option" so long as it doesn't cap tie him. 

Or to twist it around:

You're right. Farsi wouldn't have made a competitive Canada team gunning for the NL trophy. 

youre right on the technicality of making a team. But is farsi going to pick his international side based on which team he can get friendly minutes in or if he can make the WC squad. 

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

youre right on the technicality of making a team. But is farsi going to pick his international side based on which team he can get friendly minutes in or if he can make the WC squad. 

And in that respect, it is advantage Algeria. Not because it is easier to make their WC squad (they are not weaker than us), but because they play more friendlies than us. More friendlies, more opportunity, more chance to work your way up. That's irrespective of "feeling Algerian" and opportunities to get into European club ball, etc. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Obinna

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

What is he waiting for? I don't know, honestly. I think and this is just based on inference, that Herdman let him know that he has a spot on our NT and if he is interested he will make the team. I assume he is waiting to hear about that from Algeria. Or perhaps his agent thinks he can get him into a big European league soon and Algeria's coach told him if Farsi goes to Europe, they'll cap him. I don't know. I think it goes like this: he thinks Algeria is a better opportunity, he thinks he has the chops to make their roster sooner than later, Algeria told him that if he can move up a step they'll call him in, his agents are telling him that move is in the cards in the near future and so he's going to wait and see if there's anything there for him.

To your second point, look at Marcelo Flores. He was already working with a marketing agency in Mexico and now he can't make either our team or theirs (or England's) and it's looking like he might not even be playing in Europe next year. Doesn't matter what is realistic, it matters what the player thinks is attainable. In terms of "not being able to make our team"- Liam Fraser plays for us. Kyle Hiebert saw the pitch. Can't remember if Zator actually played or not, but if you're Mo Farsi, you know that if those guys are on the team, you can make it too.

I highly doubt that herdman told him he has a spot on our team. That would be a lie. He can fight for a place but alot of things have to happen for farsi to be good enough. Herdman has been honest with all our duals so far. 

Isnt the marcelo flores example reinforcing my point? He was working with a marketing agency way to early and it might backfire on him.  In fairness, an arsenal kid has way more marketability than a columbus kid so his club plays a huge role in marketing. 

Farsi is not a better midfielder than fraser. He is not a better centerback than heibert. Zator never played. If youre farsi and you compare yourself to players in positions that you cant play, then youre delusional. Its 100% irrelevant that we have some weaker positions if farsi cant play those. You also picked 2 guys who are not CMNT starters and have a big task to even make our A squad. Farsi would compare himself to players who are actually on the team. (yes fraser made the WC squad but farsi isnt going to compare him to teams from previous years to assess his current situation). 

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And in that respect, it is advantage Algeria. Not because it is easier to make their WC squad (they are not weaker than us), but because they play more friendlies than us. More friendlies, more opportunity, more chance to work your way up. That's irrespective of "feeling Algerian" and opportunities to get into European club ball, etc. 

I mean, maybe. I see where youre coming from but algeria played 13 games in 2022 including cup of nations (according to my limited search) With so few games algeria would need to utilize the friendlies for prepping of the cup of nations rather than to test out guys who would be 4-5th string.  To further this point, Atal played RB against sweden, ghana and nigeria in 2 friendlies. zedadka played vs iran. Benyada against guinea and mali. At most, he is likely to get 2 friendlies a year if things go great for him. He could easily be part of a camp poutine or gold cup squad and get equal or more game time with canada. Algeria plays fewer competitive games than canada so I disagree that theres more opportunities.  

 

[MtlMario]

It's pretty obvious that he would choose Canada second so stop the BS and stop saying " it's to early for me to decide". I say if you refuse a call do not come crawling back saying now you want in because your first choice does not want you. And that goes for any dual. That's my personal feeling.

[Dominic94]

This is a short sighted move.

our shit will end up getting together and Honeslty the WC at home and the Copa are going to explode the Canadian scene for soccer and get us more exposure than Algeria.

 

however, if he wants to play than yes I would say he will face more competition here in 5 years than with Algeria. 
 

A year from now Kobe Franklin may be way ahead of Farsi…

[InglewoodJack]

21 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I highly doubt that herdman told him he has a spot on our team. That would be a lie. He can fight for a place but alot of things have to happen for farsi to be good enough. Herdman has been honest with all our duals so far. 

Isnt the marcelo flores example reinforcing my point? He was working with a marketing agency way to early and it might backfire on him.  In fairness, an arsenal kid has way more marketability than a columbus kid so his club plays a huge role in marketing. 

Farsi is not a better midfielder than fraser. He is not a better centerback than heibert. Zator never played. If youre farsi and you compare yourself to players in positions that you cant play, then youre delusional. Its 100% irrelevant that we have some weaker positions if farsi cant play those. You also picked 2 guys who are not CMNT starters and have a big task to even make our A squad. Farsi would compare himself to players who are actually on the team. (yes fraser made the WC squad but farsi isnt going to compare him to teams from previous years to assess his current situation). 

Of course he could make our team. He's playing well in MLS which is historically enough to make our team. The conversation was probably like "hey we want to call you in and we think you can actually play minutes for us." "Sorry I don't want to be cap tied yet because I'm interested in Algeria so I will reject the call". "okay we will remove you from the list"

As for Flores, I think we're talking about different things. He cares about what him and his entourage thinks he can do which clearly was become the face of Mexico's next generation of talent and that comes with massive marketing opportunities because a player like that will likely be the most famous athlete in a massive country. That's why he went towards Mexico. It backfired for him because he's not that guy (yet), but it doesn't matter who he is, just who he thinks he can be, at least as far as choosing your national team is.

32 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I can appreciate your take here and kind of feel the same way, but on the flipside, we don't want guys who are dreaming of playing elsewhere and just see Canada as a means to an end. Why would we want players like this? These guys are always going to exist and all the power to them. It's not a uniquely Canadian problem, surely.

We have so much talent in this country that I am not really fussed. These guys will always exist. Guys like Borjan, David and Davies will always exist. Guys who are inbetweeners (Eustaquio...Vitoria) will always exist. Thing is, depth is important if not critical, but you can only name 18 and can only dress 11. 

I just think as far as soccer goes in our country, the national team is always going to be a means to an end and I've accepted that at the end of the day this is all business. We love hearing all these nice quotes from Eustaquio saying his greatest honour is being a CANMNT member, and that may be true, but he did try and make Portugal, he would've played with them if he made the team. Junior Hoilett did his whole thing years ago and now he's an important veteran presence. I don't want to get into that too much, but Borjan is a Serbian nationalist- he loves playing for us, but if he came up through Red Star instead of joining them after he was capped by us and Serbia offered him a spot... who knows what would've happened. I think if we start thinking about players' emotional connections to the country and their sense of patriotism or whatever, you start to realize that there's a good chance most of our players would've preferred to end up elsewhere and that ignores the connection (real or just public PR) they've build with our nation/team since committing. On the flip side, I think Wotherspoon has only physically stepped inside Canada for NT purposes and nothing else (did I hear his first trip to Canada was for a camp?). He's very much not Canadian and would've much rather played for his home country of Scotland, but on the flip side, who am I to question a national team player's feelings about Canada and their Canadianess when they represent us? If Farsi has a change of heart and plays with us, in 7 years when he's a veteran mainstay, none of us are going to hold this against him and if we did, we'd probably hate like half our guys and that wouldn't be good. Like I said, I'm gonna be a hater because he should be playing for us, but I also know business is business and if he sees the light, I'll bring him in, just like how Eustaquio is one of my favourite players on our team.

I'm not fussed about this guy, with losing these duals it's always about what this means for the bigger picture. I don't think even prime Farsi (What is that- mid table Bundesliga? I dunno.) moves the needle for us more than being just a good player to have. But if we're raising players, developing them, moving them along our youth system and domestic pyramid, keeping them close to home and yet still they decide we're not good enough for them, then really what will it take? We're even hosting the next world cup, a roster a guy like Farsi should believe he can make. Not sure what more we can provide these players. I look at a team like Ireland whose dual national losses alone could've probably made the round of 8 or 16 at the world cup when they themselves can't even qualify and it's just a major drag that our team could be even better if players just committed to us instead of elsewhere, and it's a drag.

[Bigandy]

37 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Of course he could make our team. He's playing well in MLS which is historically enough to make our team. The conversation was probably like "hey we want to call you in and we think you can actually play minutes for us." "Sorry I don't want to be cap tied yet because I'm interested in Algeria so I will reject the call". "okay we will remove you from the list"

 

If you name a competitve A squad, Farsi will not be included. There is literally zero chance he takes buchanan or laryeas spot at WB. At RB hes not ahead of johnston and laryea. Add in the potential of guys like franklin and sigur (if he commits) and farsi could easily become 4-5 in the depth charts in a few years time. Zator could also be viewed as a defensive RB option if we move to a back 4. 

Do you honestly believe we would drop one of buchanan, johnston or laryea for him? calling up 3 Rightbacks in our typical 23 man squad would be such a waste. We typically call up 3 gk and 20 players (2 for each position). 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I mean, maybe. I see where youre coming from but algeria played 13 games in 2022 including cup of nations (according to my limited search) With so few games algeria would need to utilize the friendlies for prepping of the cup of nations rather than to test out guys who would be 4-5th string.  To further this point, Atal played RB against sweden, ghana and nigeria in 2 friendlies. zedadka played vs iran. Benyada against guinea and mali. At most, he is likely to get 2 friendlies a year if things go great for him. He could easily be part of a camp poutine or gold cup squad and get equal or more game time with canada. Algeria plays fewer competitive games than canada so I disagree that theres more opportunities.  

 

Good points so I don't want to take away from them, but I do want to say that 13 sounds like a lot to me. I know we are New Canada now, but in the recent past we were lucky to get 10 games a year. 2021 was unprecedented in terms of games played, but even then, I think we only played 16 or 17, and that was with Gold Cup, the prelim rounds, and the Ocho.

We've played 2 games so far this year, will play another 2 in nations league, then we will play 6 if we reach the GC finals. So that's 10 in total at best heading into fall. Then, we have 2 games for sure as part of NL 2023/24, then maybe (if we are lucky) will play 2 friendlies in the fall, so that's 14 games at best. Not much different than Algeria's 13 games last year, so I can't agree with your view that Algeria plays fewer games relative to us. It's basically the same. Neither nation is USA or Mexico, who play tons of games and have players going way past the century mark in terms of caps.

The number of games is probably not a factor, but the number of friendlies could be, at least based on what we are thinking (which is that Farsi is good enough to get called to a Friendly for either side, but not for a competitive game - yet).

By the way, I don't know how many friendlies Algeria will play this year, but it's probably going to be more than us. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Obinna

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Good points so I don't want to take away from them, but I do want to say that 13 sounds like a lot to me. I know we are New Canada now, but in the recent past we were lucky to get 10 games a year. 2021 was unprecedented in terms of games played, but even then, I think we only played 16 or 17, and that was with Gold Cup, the prelim rounds, and the Ocho.

We've played 2 games so far this year, will play another 2 in nations league, then we will play 6 if we reach the GC finals. So that's 10 in total at best heading into fall. Then, we have 2 games for sure as part of NL 2023/24, then maybe (if we are lucky) will play 2 friendlies in the fall, so that's 14 games at best. Not much different than Algeria's 13 games last year, so I can't agree with your prognosis that Algeria plays fewer games relative to us.

The number of games is probably not a factor, but the number of friendlies could be, at least based on what we are thinking (which is that Farsi is good enough to get called to a Friendly for either side, but not for a competitive game - yet).

By the way, I don't know how many friendlies Algeria will play this year, but it's probably going to be more than us. 

Number of games:
In the same year (2022) we had 18 games. 3 of those were cancelled (strike and covid i believe) and 3 were world cup games - however algeria played cup of nations as well. I think its more accurate to compare 2022 algeria to 2022 canada as opposed to 2023 canada where we do not know what will happen with wither canada or algeria. If we compare the same year average than we play more games than algeria. At the very least, the argument that algeria plays more games than canada is not unequivocally true. 

Type of games: 
I agree that friendlies could play a role in getting farsi minutes, however based on the team selection of 2022, farsi would have to become 3rd string for algeria in order to play 1 friendly in a year. With a sample size so small (1 game), the coach could easily say he wants his main guys to get more reps together. Even if it doubles, he would get 2 games in meaningless friendlies. I dont think those friendlies will get him any additional sponsorships. If he preforms very well, he could climb the depth chart but only if hes already neck and neck with someone else. I cant see farsi playing great against sweden's B team and all of the sudden he passes atal in the depth charts.  Just like if farsi played great against bahrain, he wouldnt pass johnston in the depth charts. 

 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Number of games:
In the same year (2022) we had 18 games. 3 of those were cancelled (strike and covid i believe) and 3 were world cup games - however algeria played cup of nations as well. I think its more accurate to compare 2022 algeria to 2022 canada as opposed to 2023 canada where we do not know what will happen with wither canada or algeria. If we compare the same year average than we play more games than algeria. At the very least, the argument that algeria plays more games than canada is not unequivocally true. 

Type of games: 
I agree that friendlies could play a role in getting farsi minutes, however based on the team selection of 2022, farsi would have to become 3rd string for algeria in order to play 1 friendly in a year. With a sample size so small (1 game), the coach could easily say he wants his main guys to get more reps together. Even if it doubles, he would get 2 games in meaningless friendlies. I dont think those friendlies will get him any additional sponsorships. If he preforms very well, he could climb the depth chart but only if hes already neck and neck with someone else. I cant see farsi playing great against sweden's B team and all of the sudden he passes atal in the depth charts.  Just like if farsi played great against bahrain, he wouldnt pass johnston in the depth charts. 

 

Agree on the sponsorship thing. It's premature in my opinion. My main thing is that he's going to get invited to a friendly at some point (before he ever plays for us, I imagine) and from there he won't reverse course, because why would he?

[PiedPilko]

33 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

If you name a competitve A squad, Farsi will not be included. There is literally zero chance he takes buchanan or laryeas spot at WB. At RB hes not ahead of johnston and laryea. Add in the potential of guys like franklin and sigur (if he commits) and farsi could easily become 4-5 in the depth charts in a few years time. Zator could also be viewed as a defensive RB option if we move to a back 4. 

Do you honestly believe we would drop one of buchanan, johnston or laryea for him? calling up 3 Rightbacks in our typical 23 man squad would be such a waste. We typically call up 3 gk and 20 players (2 for each position). 

You could argue he's on the fringes. I'd probably take him over Zator.

[Bigandy]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Agree on the sponsorship thing. It's premature in my opinion. My main thing is that he's going to get invited to a friendly at some point (before he ever plays for us, I imagine) and from there he won't reverse course, because why would he?

I totally see what you are saying. My hope is that he refuses to play for algeria as well until he sees how he does in europe. If he is succesful then we have him take laryeas spot in 4 years ish? 

 

 

7 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

You could argue he's on the fringes. I'd probably take him over Zator.

I 100% agree hes the better player over zator (i dont think zator ever contributes meaningful minutes) but stylistically zator would be a defensive RB option. He could provide cover for AJ in that role while farsi would provide stylistic back up to laryea/buchanan.  

[El Hombre]

3 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

A year from now Kobe Franklin may be way ahead of Farsi…

Considering Farsi is four years older than Franklin, you can give Kobe a few years to get up to Farsi's level and still be ahead.  Franklin has played half as many minutes as Farsi this year and only really started getting game time, so his trajectory is positive if he can keep it up.

On 5/29/2023 at 4:05 PM, footballfreak said:

There’s a pretty well known phenomenon where some children of immigrants are more likely to view their parents’ country(s) of origin more favourably than their parents do; and more likely to view their “new” country less favourably than their parents do. It’s been a long time since I read about it, so I hope I’m not misrepresenting the data. Iirc, the trend reverses again in the third generation, who tend to be better culturally assimilated than both generations one and two.

It’s by no means a universal experience of course. I’m sure there are plenty of second gen folks who feel very Canadian - ourNT roster is proof positive.

I’m something like 3rd/4th gen depending on the side of the family, so I’ve never really thought of myself as anything other than Canadian. I’d certainly be interested to hear from any second generation folks on whether they experienced that overcompensation towards a parental homeland. I imagine there will be some selection bias on a pro-Canada soccer board, but so be it.

This has been my experience.  I'm a UK mutt but I never really cared to look into it too deeply because I never considered myself anything other than Canadian, but I remember growing up with kids with names like Gord MacDougall (not real, but you get the idea) who really would pump up their obscure roots because it made them feel special.  Especially in a homogenous environment, there's a cachet there to try to make yourself more exotic to separate you from the crowd.  I wouldn't know, as it wasn't my experience, but the same might be true in a less homogenous environment but with the goal to belong to a group.  Being Canadian is boring when you're young.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I totally see what you are saying. My hope is that he refuses to play for algeria as well until he sees how he does in europe. If he is succesful then we have him take laryeas spot in 4 years ish? 

I like your optimism but I just don't see it in this case. I would love to be wrong, but I think he's going to accept the first Algeria call he gets. More than him refusing Algeria, we should probably put our hope in Algeria not being interested in him.

When I went to their most recent squad list this morning I think I saw a young defender Farsi's age who was listed. No caps but may speak to the type of player Algeria is willing to bring in. Yes it's far easier to bring a young promising player from your domestic league, versus a young player from MLS, but MLS isn't the backwater it was 10-15 years ago either. He's really excelling this year on a pretty good Columbus side.

I would be surprised if Algeria are rushing to recruit him, but surely they are keeping tabs if they have any decent level of scouting (which I am sure they do). I can see them bringing him in if and when it's convenient for them vs bending themselves backwards over Farsi - and I don't know enough about Algeria to guess with confidence when that would be.