Shame on TSN and Sportsnet

[spinrack]

23 minutes ago, Ruud said:

where were you?  The Lion?

We were at Frappe.

To be clear, we could have watched the OneSoccer stream if someone brought a laptop. We did that for earlier matches in the tournament.  But with the bar receiving an ESPN feed, it was just easier that way.  Much less chance of any technical glitches or crappy broadcast (stream) quality.

Edited October 16, 2019 by spinrack

[Cheeta]

We watched the ESPN feed because the OneSoccer signal was a few seconds delayed and with only one set showing OneSoccer and the others ESPN that wouldn't do.  

OneSoccer signal was outstanding though.  

[Ruud]

2 hours ago, Floortom said:

Never understand these types of threads. Broadcasters are in it for the money. If they don’t think they can profit off an event they won’t show it. Win more of these games, get more fans and the major networks will be on board.

Of course they are - for the money, or the potential for future earnings through increased interest from fans in the future.  But don't tell me TSN showing Champions League wasn't making money before - of course they were.  They put an asset on their rotation and sell ads, but they also link to other media to get more ad revenue and clicks.  So either this asset becomes more valuable, stays the same, or declines.  And the next round of negotiations with UEFA comes to a new agreement.  DAZN wins and sells subscriptions and knows exactly what their viewership looks like.  More data etc.  Different model, same need to ensure profits.

I think my question is different - what happens to the asset valuation when fewer people tune in, fewer people click on CL or EPL stories etc. Doesn't it just stagnate?  In other words, does CPL do itself a favor being on a subscription service in the long term?  Wouldn't OneSoccer do itself a favor (in terms of building more fans and getting more subscribers) by sharing its broadcast with a national sports network?  In fact, wouldn't DAZN benefit from sharing its asset with a national broadcaster to show SOME CL games in order to get more subscribers to jump on DAZN in order to watch the other games? 

 

 

 

[narduch]

Well One Soccer does show games on CBC. But CBC only wants to show Saturday afternoon games. And they often have other sports conflicts as well.

So we know One Soccer is willing to work with other networks.

I wonder if One Soccer could work a deal with a network like TLN. TLN does show Serie A (which I believe is also on DAZN?)

Remember TSN essentially had to be guilted into showing Forge in the Concacaf League.

[red card]

TSN has shown OneSoccer feeds of Canada matches already. FG match in Vancouver and women's World Cup send off match in Toronto.

So, TSN said no this time likely because it was a packed schedule for them yesterday - Leafs, Jets & Canadiens. Other than people channel grazing, there weren't going to be that many sports eyeballs (adding in baseball playoffs on SN) left to watch Canada's match. 

Even in the best case scenario, ratings aren't high for these non WC qualifying matches (doubtful if it reaches 100k). And it is likely the women's matches got higher viewership since 2012. 

DAZN doesn't need to show their content on TSN to draw in subscribers. They relying on the pull of EPL & CL and hard core NFL fans to bring in people. DAZN isn't doing anything special with its broadcast, they're using the same feeds as TSN. Same strategy as Netflix, they're not showing their shows on network or cable tv to draw people in but they relied upon a library of appealing content to give them time to roll out their original content. So, Canada Soccer & CPL will need to deliver a better men's product in order drive OneSoccer subs. 

In the meantime, OneSoccer could partner more with TSN but it will involve some monies which causes the friction. CBC partnership was probably more seamless to forge because money wasn't likely a key piece given the lesser competitive overlap - CBC gets close to free programming while OneSoccer gets some free ads. 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by red card

[Nick P]

Soccer can't grow if the games are not easily accessible The abandonment of Premier League AND UEFA Champions League by TSN and Sportsnet is terrifying for the growth of the game in Canada

[Kadenge]

1 minute ago, Nick P said:

Soccer can't grow if the games are not easily accessible The abandonment of Premier League AND UEFA Champions League by TSN and Sportsnet is terrifying for the growth of the game in Canada

Most people are cutting cable and turning to streaming. Have you tried DAZN? It's way cheaper than getting a TSN pkg with the cable cos.

[Strait Red]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Most people are cutting cable and turning to streaming. Have you tried DAZN? It's way cheaper than getting a TSN pkg with the cable cos.

I’m a big proponent of DAZN, I haven’t cut the cord on cable yet and I’m a big sports fan but I find myself watching more of DAZN than Sportsnet and TSN. Good content and the yearly price is reasonable.

[Macksam]

7 hours ago, Bison44 said:

This reminds me of UFC and the Ultimate fighter.  When the first TUF finale was such a success on regular cable it won over tons of fans and boosted all the future content that was payperview.  TSN/Sportsnet would still have  to pony up, but it might have almost been in everyones best interest if it had been a smaller price and it got on regular cable as a advert for Onesoccer, CMNT, CPL and CDN soccer at large. Just something for the networks to chew on before the return leg.  Its a shame more eyeballs werent on that game, could have won over a lot of young fans, turned them into lifers like Forrest, Devos and Hastings did at the gold cup.  

Right, Forrest Griffin vs Stephen Bonnar? I recall that fight having a viral effect across the internet. 

10 minutes ago, Nick P said:

Soccer can't grow if the games are not easily accessible The abandonment of Premier League AND UEFA Champions League by TSN and Sportsnet is terrifying for the growth of the game in Canada

But it is easily accessible. You literally download an app on your smart TV/Xbox/Playstation and enjoy.  

[apbsmith]

15 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Most people are cutting cable and turning to streaming. Have you tried DAZN? It's way cheaper than getting a TSN pkg with the cable cos.

I can count on one hand the amount of people I personally know that still have cable. When my bill increased to $100 one month, was an easy decision for me to cut cable a few yrs back. 

Regardless, for bars, restaurants, mainstream sports fan, I'd still like to see these games on a main stream network cable channel. Would be pretty epic, if somehow CBC got it....or if Rogers did buy it  and then they decided to play it on CTV (free for all), even my 80 yr old grandma. 

I think from a growth of game perspective for the younger generation and even the casual fans is 1) winning, 2) make the world cup, 3) Canadian players playing at top clubs, 4) CPL being in Fifa, 5) games on mainstream TV.

 

[BFBF]

I'd like to point out that making money from TV advertising on soccer games is extremely difficult. The only time available for ads is before the game, a small section at half, and after the game. That is a huge reason that TSN and Sportsnet are committed to tradition north American sports. Football, hockey, basketball all have way more time for ads.

This is a huge reason I am a supporter of subscriptions for soccer, and a big reason why DAZN and ONESOCCER are able to outbid the traditional broadcasters. The subscription model doesn't rely on ads to make the majority of their revenue. 

I think wether we like it or not subscription services will start to take over soccer in North America just based on the model fitting the product better. We need to find a way to sell these services to our bars and other sports fans.

[Ansem]

Listening to Sid's words, it might not just be about money but the fact that Onesoccer insists on their feed to be broadcasted and  not allowing the networks to make their own shows while using their feed.

 

Well sucks for them and that's within Onesoccer's right to demand that. They'd be stupid not too.

 

I would add TVA Sport and RDS to the list of culprits. If they do buy the game...the price just went WAY UP!!!

 

Good on Sid to say that they should broadcast it AS IS

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ansem

[red card]

When using OneSoccer's feed in the past, CBC & TSN have done their own pre match intros and half time analysis. TSN has also used Wileman, Caldwell & Moscato to do the matches. Basically, it is a white label offering by OneSoccer.

And even if OneSoccer wants to use their own people, TSN & Sportsnet do that all the time using feeds from NBCSN, ESPN, Fox, Sky, regional networks & world feeds. Even for events held in Canada - Montreal F1 race uses Sky, Indy races use NBCSN and so on. 

[SpursFlu]

I think cable networks better start playing ball with streaming services or they ll end up like the music industry. Spent years fighting  against the future when they could have been apart of the future

And Sid just confirmed what I've been saying.. it's not lack of interest or money. It's behind the scenes politics. CSA is in bed with Onesoccer for the next 10 yrs. They're not DAZN. The Canadian publicdeserves better. Why not work together?

Edited October 17, 2019 by SpursFlu

[InBorjanWeTrust]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/canadas-mens-soccer-deserve-coverage-historic-win/

Worthy listen from Tim and Sid. Sid is one of the loudest voices for Canada Soccer in the country IMO. He's a massive fan of the team. He brings up some good points regarding the sports place in the Country.

[Ruffian]

14 hours ago, InBorjanWeTrust said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/canadas-mens-soccer-deserve-coverage-historic-win/

Worthy listen from Tim and Sid. Sid is one of the loudest voices for Canada Soccer in the country IMO. He's a massive fan of the team. He brings up some good points regarding the sports place in the Country.

I have heard some badmouthing of them on here but Sid is definitely a fan. He has made some statements that may seem ignorant of soccer to one of us on the Voyageurs forum, but if all of your conversation were recorded and scrutinised like his anybody would end up making an ignorant comment.

[nfitz]

On 10/15/2019 at 11:55 PM, Gian-Luca said:

I hate all this "first time beating them since 1985" crap because we beat them in 1990 in the Three Nations Cup (which was the North American championship at the time before the Gold Cup started the following year) and also beat them in 1988 in the first leg of Olympic Qualifying (at the time it wasn't an U23 tournament but the full national teams) - but for some reason the American's have been able to whitewash those results as not counting. Well, they aren't going to be able to do that this time!

 

In 1990, it was a B team we played. The USA matches were May 6 and May 10, 1990 in Vancouver. But the main USA World Cup squad was playing the same week, friendlies in the USA against Malta and Poland. So seems to be fair to call the USA squad that went to Vancouver a B squad.

The 1988 Olympic Qualifier (on May 23 1987) - can't find much official information on who was in either squad. Looking at the Toronto Star article from May 24, Bearpark was the  Canadian coach, and 29-year old Mitchell were playing, along with 24-year old Norm Odinga, 26-year old Sven Habermann - the only other 2 players I can see mentioned were under 23.

For the USA, it was Lothar Osiander with 24-year old David Vanole in goal. 

So perhaps first victory over USA in 32 years instead of 34 years. Though we did lose the return match a few days, and the aggregate score.

[Ruffian]

13 minutes ago, nfitz said:

In 1990, it was a B team we played. The USA matches were May 6 and May 10, 1990 in Vancouver. But the main USA World Cup squad was playing the same week, friendlies in the USA against Malta and Poland. So seems to be fair to call the USA squad that went to Vancouver a B squad.

The 1988 Olympic Qualifier (on May 23 1987) - can't find much official information on who was in either squad. Looking at the Toronto Star article from May 24, Bearpark was the  Canadian coach, and 29-year old Mitchell were playing, along with 24-year old Norm Odinga, 26-year old Sven Habermann - the only other 2 players I can see mentioned were under 23.

For the USA, it was Lothar Osiander with 24-year old David Vanole in goal. 

So perhaps first victory over USA in 32 years instead of 34 years. Though we did lose the return match a few days, and the aggregate score.

These are all just excuses for disregarding the fact that Canada beat the USA on those occasions.

[SkuseisLoose]

5 hours ago, Ruffian said:

These are all just excuses for disregarding the fact that Canada beat the USA on those occasions.

The 1990 one really shouldn’t count when even Canada soccer considers it to be against their B team https://canadasoccer.com/?gid=310&t=match

[Kent]

But it was only a B team because the USA prioritized friendlies over the North American Championship? OK fine, I don't think that championship had any history (was that the only time it happened?) but still! Why prioritize friendlies over a championship? I guess it's not a new phenomenon that America thinks it is too good to play teams from this region. They were doing it as soon as they finally made a World Cup back in 1990!

[Gian-Luca]

19 minutes ago, Kent said:

But it was only a B team because the USA prioritized friendlies over the North American Championship? OK fine, I don't think that championship had any history (was that the only time it happened?) but still! Why prioritize friendlies over a championship? I guess it's not a new phenomenon that America thinks it is too good to play teams from this region. They were doing it as soon as they finally made a World Cup back in 1990!

It was the third installment of the tournament, but the previous two were held in the 1940's, the last being 1949 which was used for World Cup Qualifying for 1950. Canada didn't enter a team in that tourney. But the 1990 version was pre-Gold Cup era and basically supplanted by it.

There isn't any excuse though for the 1987 victory though in Olympic qualifying. I can understand them ignoring this 2012 victory for us over them (a familiar player scored our 2nd goal) because it was U23 Olympic teams, but that wasn't the case in 1987:

 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

It was the third installment of the tournament, but the previous two were held in the 1940's, the last being 1949 which was used for World Cup Qualifying for 1950. Canada didn't enter a team in that tourney. But the 1990 version was pre-Gold Cup era and basically supplanted by it.

There isn't any excuse though for the 1987 victory though in Olympic qualifying. I can understand them ignoring this 2012 victory for us over them (a familiar player scored our 2nd goal) because it was U23 Olympic teams, but that wasn't the case in 1987:

 

“deux à zéro“ is real!

Remind me, was number 20 in that game Boakai?

[Gian-Luca]

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

“deux à zéro“ is real!

Remind me, was number 20 in that game Boakai?

I believe #20 was Evan James, who got drafted by Montreal but I don't think ever played for them.

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I can understand them ignoring this 2012 victory for us over them (a familiar player scored our 2nd goal) because it was U23 Olympic teams, but that wasn't the case in 1987:

Not to mention our first.

https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2012/03/25/nc-america/olympic-qualifying-concacaf/united-states-u23/canada-u23/1234089/

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Looks like Kristian Jack was part of the TSN layoffs.  Another soccer voice gone from the media.  It was sad when Sportsnet cut all of their soccer people (and later Brendan Dunlop).