Herdman new head coach

[Craig11rm]

Can you guys believe Herdman is only 5’5”? I wonder where he ranks among international managers in that department.

[Big_M]

would be nice to have his stats or pics of his time at prudhoe town

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:19 AM, Gian-Luca said:

I'm going to go ahead and accuse Herdman of being racist because he keeps mentioning that the Scottish group went one way, the Spanish players went another way and the Eastern European players went another way after this fight. He never mentions the black players though, and I find this lack of representation on their behalf unacceptable, offensive and racially-motivated.

True, this accusation makes absolutely no sense, is completely ludicrous and totally without foundation, but that doesn't stop others from making the same ludicrous accusations about misogyny. And be warned, if anyone doesn't like this post, I'm going to accuse them of being racist towards Italians.

We all just assumed you appropriated that Italian name because it gave you street cred in Toronto. 

Seriously, I don't mind him talking about this stuff, but I'd prefer to hear him do it to a tough question, a nasty question, like in a press conference, and not when the questions he is getting are so soft and pandering. We've all seen coaches, of clubs or nations, get their backs up and fire back. I've seen Luis Enrique do it for years, he's the cockiest most uppity guy around, sometimes he's unbearable. And it is funny as hell too, although Mourinho was the master. My wife, who is Catalan and from generations of Barça supporters, always said she thought Mourinho was far more attractive than Guardiola-which has had a major influence on me figuring out what kind of man I want to be

Herdman is fighting back, but it's mostly shadow boxing. Get us to Qatar, John, and you can say all that and more and we'll love it. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:15 AM, frmr said:

There is no proof. Nobody here knows exactly what happened. It's just four-year-old speculation.

It is not speculation. 

While Herdman was still WT coach, he was receiving offers from elsewhere. Or perhaps it was one key offer.

He used those offers to leverage his way into the MNT post, with the CSA board. When Zambrano was our coach and had barely just begun. If you look at the rapport, Zambrano constantly tweeted about the women's team, was supportive of it in press conferences, he was a team player. I don't recall Herdman as much on Twitter, but I think it was reciprocal.

Zambrano's argument, which in the end he never laid out in full (get to that below), was that he felt it was necessary to shake things up in youth and development soccer in Canada, and what he was proposing got the provincial old boys' backs up. There was resistance, and the CSA, instead of backing his vision--which is what he was also hired for, if you look at the job description--saw a way out. Eliminate the person rocking the boat and hire someone who at least seemed to have a more harmonious--which does not mean correct--relationship with the soccer establishment.

The standard argument was that the CSA did not want to lose an asset like Herdman, and that Herdman offered them a way out: hire me for the men's post.

Back to Zambrano. When he was fired he said he'd do a press conference, or come out and explain his position in full. He gave a few indications of it, liking long posts about his firing on social media, but he never has laid out his position. I figure he was either required to sign a "silence" clause for a decent severance, or chose to not dig in the wound and move on, because he sincerely loved the Canada programme. Or maybe a combination of both. 

I don't think what I have written is speculation, it is a composite of various things I have read and heard, much of it corroborated. But I will admit it could be simplified and parts of it apocryphal. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[MM3/MM2/MM]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

apocryphal.

Voyageur word of the year😎 Such a great word for today's times and in relation to Herdman.

[shorty]

10 hours ago, Craig11rm said:

Can you guys believe Herdman is only 5’5”?

What’s your point?

signed, Shorty

[frmr]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is not speculation. 

While Herdman was still WT coach, he was receiving offers from elsewhere. Or perhaps it was one key offer.

He used those offers to leverage his way into the MNT post, with the CSA board. When Zambrano was our coach and had barely just begun. If you look at the rapport, Zambrano constantly tweeted about the women's team, was supportive of it in press conferences, he was a team player. I don't recall Herdman as much on Twitter, but I think it was reciprocal.

Zambrano's argument, which in the end he never laid out in full (get to that below), was that he felt it was necessary to shake things up in youth and development soccer in Canada, and what he was proposing got the provincial old boys' backs up. There was resistance, and the CSA, instead of backing his vision--which is what he was also hired for, if you look at the job description--saw a way out. Eliminate the person rocking the boat and hire someone who at least seemed to have a more harmonious--which does not mean correct--relationship with the soccer establishment.

The standard argument was that the CSA did not want to lose an asset like Herdman, and that Herdman offered them a way out: hire me for the men's post.

Back to Zambrano. When he was fired he said he'd do a press conference, or come out and explain his position in full. He gave a few indications of it, liking long posts about his firing on social media, but he never has laid out his position. I figure he was either required to sign a "silence" clause for a decent severance, or chose to not dig in the wound and move on, because he sincerely loved the Canada programme. Or maybe a combination of both. 

I don't think what I have written is speculation, it is a composite of various things I have read and heard, much of it corroborated. But I will admit it could be simplified and parts of it apocryphal. 

When you're speaking about someone liking posts on social media as part of evidence, not following through on press conferences for one reason or another, and you literally saying you "figure" this or that, those all fall under the category of speculation for me. The only way we would know exactly what happened if Canada Soccer, Herdman and Zambrano all came out, held a press conference and transparently explained what happened and fielded questions, which didn't happen. And it really doesn't matter at this point.

[frmr]

@BrennanFanconfused, as usual.

[Craig11rm]

2 hours ago, shorty said:

What’s your point?

signed, Shorty

I meant no disrespect. Just trying to dream up some delusional argument against one of the best managers we’ve ever had. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, frmr said:

When you're speaking about someone liking posts on social media as part of evidence, not following through on press conferences for one reason or another, and you literally saying you "figure" this or that, those all fall under the category of speculation for me. The only way we would know exactly what happened if Canada Soccer, Herdman and Zambrano all came out, held a press conference and transparently explained what happened and fielded questions, which didn't happen. And it really doesn't matter at this point.

I don't know. If I post "Canada Revenue should look into @frmr and his offshore accounts, he is obviously evading taxes", and your former lawyer and former accountant, who you just fired, like that post, then what would you call that?

I realise it is not fair to put your name in there, sorry.

Thing is. Zambrano did not post directly, but liked very concrete articles, posts and blogs about what had happened. Not randomly at all. Maybe he was bitter, like your recently fired lawyer and accountant. But I would not entirely mistrust what your former legal and financial advisors are suggesting there either.

But since I suspect Herdman does indeed read this board, and this thread, from the way he refers to certain criticisms out there, I'll give it a rest, and hope he absolutely kills it from here on in. IN any case, if he had the balls to get the job, and hang on to the job, I hope he had the same gumption to keep it through Qatar 2022.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But since I suspect Herdman does indeed read this board, and this thread, from the way he refers to certain criticisms out there, I'll give it a rest, and hope he absolutely kills it from here on in. IN any case, if he had the balls to get the job, and hang on to the job, I hope he had the same gumption to keep it through Qatar 2022.

I have a hard time believing he has so little to do (including personal contact and review with the player pool) that he reads this thread, maybe someone in his family does. 

I am going on my age addled memory here but wasn't there a rumour that Zambrano, off the pitch, was a dumpster fire (for doing nothing) and likely would have been fired regardless.  I'm not trying to slag the man in favour of Herdman but wasn't that information out there (or maybe it was just BS,) who knows.

Also I don't think the critics (for whatever sexism/racism/homophopia/xenophobia or whatever we're calling it) was solely the domain of this forum and the count on our fingers amount of people here posting about it.

[rkomar]

Joe, I'm a big Herdman fan, right from the time he took over the women's team.  But even I am getting a bit fed up with the boosterism.  At this point, if someone doesn't like Herdman, they will not be swayed by logical debate.  It will just take time and good results to change some people's feelings.  Give it time and space to happen.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Seeing as you addressed that to me, I have to tell you I could care less if people like him or not.  I will back who I agree with and debate those I don't.  Any one who knows my posts over the years knows I defend those who can't speak for themselves when they're being slandered by people who haven't a clue about what is going on. I know there are a few who will not agree with me just on principle, no matter what I say, right or wrong.  I think that's totally lame, agree or disagree with the post not the person.

As for boosterism I'm not really sure what you mean.  If you think it is a matter of people rubbing others face in it as an "I told you so", I don't think that is the case, at least it isn't with me now.  That might have been true long ago but I do recognize in my case even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If you think I'm a booster and post about it I will tell you why.  Unlike some, I have never professed to know anything about the game, you never see me talking about x and o's.  But I do know a little about some other things, sport psychology and a recognition of sport science.

When I post about something I predicted long ago that Herdman has done, is not a matter of I told you so, but a matter of astonishment that something I said has come true at a level I couldn't even dream of.

We're not Herdman's team, it's ok for us to disagree and have a little scrap now and then, just go back to your neutral corner and move on.  Don't worry, there will be other people with something new to fight about tomorrow

[Bison44]

8 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I am going on my age addled memory here but wasn't there a rumour that Zambrano, off the pitch, was a dumpster fire (for doing nothing) and likely would have been fired regardless.  I'm not trying to slag the man in favour of Herdman but wasn't that information out there (or maybe it was just BS,) who knows.

 

No you are right, that was the story, but it all came out after he was fired.  After it all went down there were a number of stories saying it was "widely known" or it was a "poorly kept secret" that something (no one says exactly what) was fishy with Zambrano.  I dont remember all of them but a bunch of the respectable journos were saying that.  Of course Zambrano denied (who wouldnt hahaha) but he never ever came forward with much of his side, so thats fishy too.  

[BearcatSA]

23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

After it all went down there were a number of stories saying it was "widely known" or it was a "poorly kept secret" that something (no one says exactly what) was fishy with Zambrano.

Well, no journo (blogger or msm type) stepped up during his coaching tenure to question publicly the dumpster fire; I didn't see it on here (and usually there is someone here who seems to have a connection and there a would have done some spec on it).  If someone wants to dive back into the archives here to find such threads pertaining to these concerns prior to his dismissal, then I would be grateful to review.  But as you said, the "widely know" and "poorly kept secret" comments came out after the changeover.  

[Joe MacCarthy]

Well, it's not really likely that the CSA is going to let the news out that the guy they just hired is turning out to be brutal and that we probably didn't do our due diligence as well as we should when we hired him.

Also, I've been on these boards since Jesus was a carpenter and nobody has ever had much insider information.  If anyone did we'd know what happened with Messrs Arfield, Aguiar, the WWC in Germany etc.  And if anyone did, they didn't tell it here.

[Bison44]

Thats a cop out Joe.  This wasnt in the 70's.  This was in the age of twitter, instagram,  etc.  Rollins, glass city etc, there are plenty of guys who have little tidbits of rumor and gossip even back with Benito.  All the Arfield kerfuffle is from a tweet and a couple interviews...If there were real problems and everyone seemed to know it (as they hinted at after the firing) none of that got out???  Because this board seems to sniff out plenty of stuff, even lots of things that dont actually happen.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Well, it's not really likely that the CSA is going to let the news out that the guy they just hired is turning out to be brutal and that we probably didn't do our due diligence as well as we should when we hired him.

Also, I've been on these boards since Jesus was a carpenter and nobody has ever had much insider information.  If anyone did we'd know what happened with Messrs Arfield, Aguiar, the WWC in Germany etc.  And if anyone did, they didn't tell it here.

Since I was in touch personally with Aguiar--ask away!

[narduch]

The Zombrano innuendo after he was fired smacks of CSA higher ups using their media contacts to spin the firing. It doesn't pass the smell test.

NHL managers do this often. A player is traded or a GM is fired and all of a sudden media stories appear to vilify them (ex. Subban)

Edited November 2, 2021 by narduch

[Joe MacCarthy]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Since I was in touch personally with Aguiar--ask away!

All right, I remember now, I sit corrected, what about Mr Arfield?

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

All right, I remember now, I sit corrected, what about Mr Arfield?

Unfortunately I've never been serenaded by Scotty on his lute.

[Joe MacCarthy]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Unfortunately I've never been serenaded by Scotty on his lute.

Man, you're all retro today.  I'm still working on where the hell you came up with Pola Negri, although I am kinda particular to Leni Riefenstahl and Ilse Werner (man could she whistle)

Edited November 1, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[Free kick]

Someone mentioned tactical periodisation a few pages back,  here is an explanation of the subject.   Is it novel?  Or nothing more than common sense?  I dont know.
 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Free kick

[canuckgbp]

Herdman works his magic again. Ike Ugbo! 

[toontownman]

How f****** smug is this bugger right now. Amazing stuff from those involved.