Kamal Miller

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But I just explained part of that, and you ignored me. Players are paid under the table, so if what is said on their contracts is not fulfilled, they have historically not complained because they got paid anyways, and tax free.

Wigan doesn't pay on time either, and they are not the only club in the FA that is faulty--and those reports are even more recent, a month ago. But Forrest's blinders wouldn't allow him to ever recommend not signing for Wigan, he'd laugh it away.

Yes, I admit I dislike his soccer values, because he's biased, is more worried about embellishment than dirty career-ending tackles, has zero knowledge of anything outside his little English experience, and shows cultural prejudice constantly--what he says about Central American teams, if we had any sort of Central American population in Canada listening--that borders on racism.

If they were paid sufficiently under the table as you say, they probably would not be applying to FIFA.  Ie. were complaining.

Your multitude of thoughts on Forrest have been expressed before. He was one of my heroes as a teenager because club and country met so I won't pretend to not be biased.  I don't need to agree with everything my past heroes say, but I can agree with what makes sense.  

Edited November 25, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If they were paid sufficiently under the table as you say, they probably would not be applying to FIFA.  Ie. were complaining.

Your multitude of thoughts on Forrest have been expressed before. He was one of my heroes as a teenager because club and country met so I won't pretend to not be biased.  I don't need to agree with everything my past heroes say, but I can agree with what makes sense.  

Still, what you cited was a total that averages out as 5000 per player in back wages. I am not denying it as a problem, just not one so extreme as to argue against signing in Turkey, that sort of comment is embarrassing. 

As I scanned articles on non-payment, I have seen references to Malta (already low wages, surely), also Qatar, UAE, Iran. 

In Spain this has happened in a few cases, and one rather notorious was Reus, south of Barcelona. A modest team that played wonderfully and rose to 2nd division but was severely mismanaged and owned money to all the players. Notably, Koleosho was on loan there when this was happening, as an u-15 I think. Then an American investor bought it, Clifton Onolfo, and in a scenario that reminds me of Edmonton, refused to assume existing debt, thinking why pay for what someone else's negligence caused? I am not sure, however, that it would not have been a good investment to just pay the couple million (I think it was not even 2 million euros) as a way of getting a foothold at that tier in Spain.

[The Real Marc]

I may be recalling incorrectly, but I think Josh Simpson had trouble with wages at Manisaspor too. But they were a newly promoted team maybe? And went bust I think? They're in the third tier now.

But that's the story - the wage issues are almost always with low-end or upstart teams, and not with the big four.

Forrest's recollection is from the old days of mid-90s English players going over there, mostly not taking it that seriously, and not sticking it out. That certainly plays a part. It's easy to want to return home and just say "they ain't paying me."

Edited November 25, 2022 by The Real Marc

[Joe MacCarthy]

Where's all the transfer love for this man?

[gkhs]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:45 PM, Joe MacCarthy said:

Where's all the transfer love for this man?

Whatever "love" there was, it probably went out the window in injury time - he cut his own transfer value by approx. 94% in the 94th minute.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Maybe I'm wrong (and all the experts will correct me) but I hope Alistair has that contract with Celtic signed because I don't think he had the greatest day, and I was thinking that before the bad guys had two goals.

[sebdeserio]

54 minutes ago, gkhs said:

Whatever "love" there was, it probably went out the window in injury time - he cut his own transfer value by approx. 94% in the 94th minute.

A brutal mistake when the game was already done won't undo him being a brick wall for 180+ minutes. Vitoria and Atiba were gassed by the 25th minute and Miller managed to keep the backline together relatively well.

[Floortom]

Kamal Miller does not have that high a ceiling IMO.  He has some serious limitations although he's a true warrior and clearly has put in a ton of work to get where he is.  I would be much more comfortable with him being a backup for us then a locked in starter but we have few options. 

Can he go to a a tier 2 European league like Turkey and have some success? Probably..not sure that's any better than his current situation though. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Floortom

[VinceA]

If teams are only signing guys based on how they play at World Cups then that scouting team should be fired.

[canadasoccer20]

7 hours ago, Floortom said:

Kamal Miller does not have that high a ceiling IMO.  He has some serious limitations although he's a true warrior and clearly has put in a ton of work to get where he is.  I would be much more comfortable with him being a backup for us then a locked in starter but we have few options. 

Can he go to a a tier 2 European league like Turkey and have some success? Probably..not sure that's any better than his current situation though. 

I have the exact thoughts about Miller. 

[InglewoodJack]

By the time the next World Cup rolls around, there's a good chance that if Miller does get a transfer abroad, he'd be at the age where players typically return back to North America, barring he finds another gear he hasn't found yet. I don't know that if he moved to a "tier 2 european league" - Turkey, Greece, etc., that that would materialize into a move to an even better league, so it would strictly become a question of salary and earnings. I think he could earn more in Turkey than he can in MLS for a few years, return, and just ride out the last chapter of his career as a reliable MLS defender that will always find a team wanting his services. Spending a couple years at a big Istanbul club and then returning to CFM, or even to TFC right in his backyard is not the worst way for the second half of his career to go.

[SoCalTransport]

9 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

By the time the next World Cup rolls around, there's a good chance that if Miller does get a transfer abroad, he'd be at the age where players typically return back to North America, barring he finds another gear he hasn't found yet. I don't know that if he moved to a "tier 2 european league" - Turkey, Greece, etc., that that would materialize into a move to an even better league, so it would strictly become a question of salary and earnings. I think he could earn more in Turkey than he can in MLS for a few years, return, and just ride out the last chapter of his career as a reliable MLS defender that will always find a team wanting his services. Spending a couple years at a big Istanbul club and then returning to CFM, or even to TFC right in his backyard is not the worst way for the second half of his career to go.

I would try to get a bigger salary in MLS if I was him,  he will languish on a bench in Europe, he has too many weaknesses. His heart makes up for his lack of skill.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, SoCalTransport said:

I would try to get a bigger salary in MLS if I was him,  he will languish on a bench in Europe, he has too many weaknesses. His heart makes up for his lack of skill.

Whatever helps him get the biggest bag possible. I think Turkey's tax exemption for super lig players might net him a better salary than he'd earn in MLS, but if he can earn it back home, even better. We'll need him for those concacaf games, and lord knows the flight from istanbul to san pedro sula isn't the most comfortable one.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Think he can be very, very good in a 3.  Still worried he lacks the real physicality needed to play in a 2 at a high level. 

[BearcatSA]

I see his physicality as a plus for him.  He has matched up very well against against physical strikers, whether they are shorter, Latin American brick sh*thouses or a Yank adonis types.  I have questions about his ability in the air and his speed of turn.  He certainly has done well in a three man back line set up for club and country.

[DeRo_Is_King]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

By the time the next World Cup rolls around, there's a good chance that if Miller does get a transfer abroad, he'd be at the age where players typically return back to North America, barring he finds another gear he hasn't found yet. I don't know that if he moved to a "tier 2 european league" - Turkey, Greece, etc., that that would materialize into a move to an even better league, so it would strictly become a question of salary and earnings. I think he could earn more in Turkey than he can in MLS for a few years, return, and just ride out the last chapter of his career as a reliable MLS defender that will always find a team wanting his services. Spending a couple years at a big Istanbul club and then returning to CFM, or even to TFC right in his backyard is not the worst way for the second half of his career to go.

Whatever the case, he'll be the perfect age for a World Cup defender -- young enough that you're not worried whether he'll have the legs, but old and experienced enough to trust. I just hope he can raise his game for  world-class competition. He hasn't truly proven himself on that level yet, but he just might if given a chance in Europe. 

[VinceA]

I personally think Miller was left out to dry by Herdman's tactics v Croatia (as were Johnston and Vitoria) and that's where the poor play came from.

The last goal too was just on a guy who has given it all and is spent (remember Herdman doesn't rotate the defense at all for some reason). I'm not going to be too harsh on him. I imagine he'll have scouts digging into his numbers with Montreal soon enough.

[BearcatSA]

On 11/28/2022 at 10:33 AM, VinceA said:

I personally think Miller was left out to dry by Herdman's tactics v Croatia (as were Johnston and Vitoria) and that's where the poor play came from.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/canada-player-ratings-davies-gets-redemption-but-world-cup-hopes-end/

Galindo felt that Johnston was left out to dry more than Miller in this one.  Felt really bad for him on that fourth Croatia goal, however.  I hope he has a strong game on Thursday.

[DeRo_Is_King]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:33 PM, VinceA said:

I personally think Miller was left out to dry by Herdman's tactics v Croatia (as were Johnston and Vitoria) and that's where the poor play came from.

The last goal too was just on a guy who has given it all and is spent (remember Herdman doesn't rotate the defense at all for some reason). I'm not going to be too harsh on him. I imagine he'll have scouts digging into his numbers with Montreal soon enough.

Yeah. I was thinking this as well. I've seen a lot of articles referencing "the mistake," but it was a very late goal when Canada had no choice but to press after completely sh*tting the bed.

I'm not saying our defending was good overall, but the game was lost long before that goal and it's really harsh for people to be calling out that last goal. Who cares. I'd rather give up a goal like that and go for it 3-1 down in a must-win game, than just sit back to keep the scoreline low. 

[vancanman]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:33 AM, VinceA said:

I personally think Miller was left out to dry by Herdman's tactics v Croatia (as were Johnston and Vitoria) and that's where the poor play came from.

The last goal too was just on a guy who has given it all and is spent (remember Herdman doesn't rotate the defense at all for some reason). I'm not going to be too harsh on him. I imagine he'll have scouts digging into his numbers with Montreal soon enough.

I agree.  He worked his socks off, especially agains Croatia, and by the 94th minute, he was spent.  Being exhausted and exposed doesn't make someone a bad player, as we all saw with Atiba.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

I've seen some criticism of Miller today, but thought he had a great game. Who else would you play?

 

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

I've seen some criticism of Miller today, but thought he had a great game. Who else would you play?

 

IMO he’s emblematic of the ceiling our team has based on the players in our pool. He’s a fantastic player, great for Montreal, MLS all star, but against the best of the best, he has difficulties. You can tell he’s a step behind, a second late, etc

[jonovision]

Is there a team that advanced from the group stage that had a worse group of keeper/defenders than we did? Based on club pedigree or whatever else you want to base it on? Australia, maybe? Herdman didn't have the tactics or the right kind of players in midfield to make up for that deficit. Miller, I think played as well as he could have save for that one error but in many cases that was not good enough.

Edited December 2, 2022 by jonovision

[Bison44]

3 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

I've seen some criticism of Miller today, but thought he had a great game. Who else would you play?

 

Who else would you play?  Boy thats the comeback to a lot of shitty posts today.  Miller and Vittoria got burnt playing a high line against a world class team and stiker....hmmm who should we have played then?? Randy Samuel wansnt sitting on the bench.  

Borjan had a fuck up and maybe one he might have had if he was on fire....hmmmm who would we put in that never gives up a soft one or has a brain freeze once in a while???  Craig Forrest where are you???

[Kadenge]

 Kamal seems like a great kid, great attitude and gives 100% every game, but one has to be objective and call it as you see on the field. It's not a popularity contest. We have 2 slow CBs in Vitoria and Miller and Kamal is also weak on aerial defending. I pointed out after the Japan game that Miller has a tendency of getting beat on high crosses into the box or over the top where his lack of speed and aerial ability lets him down. It may have been a 2 CB error but the Belgium and 2nd Morrocco goal does not happen vs most teams with CBs that have pace. His positioning is a concern as well. He was very high up at times and you can't do that unless you have pace to track back. Defenders have to come up big on plays like that. We are not going to progress unless we can upgrade our CBs.