Manjrekar James

[king1010]

9 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

Think you are hanging on to the past with this one....he ain’t coming back

If theres a b team camp in Jan i see him there. 

[Bison44]

21 minutes ago, king1010 said:

If theres a b team camp in Jan i see him there. 

You bet, bring him back into the fold...unless this IKE fellow is a CB i dont think we have the luxury of walking away from a guy who has a lot of caps and is at a decent level.  Waterman has been moving up the depth chart...but other than that who has been standing out from the rest??  No young prospect from the 3 MLS sides is ready (still not sure if Singh is ours or not) and a CPL CB isnt getting a call unless they are the absolute cream of the crop (whoever that is this year).  

I'm kind of nervous Vittoria is on his last legs.  

[Big_M]

Havent listened to every interview of Herdman but unless he talked about James, dont think its crazy to think that something happened where he said yeah we're not gonna call him anymore...otherwise the level hes played in the last year is too strong to not even get called once or not even be on the gold cup preliminary list

[Obinna]

I would not be opposed to bringing James back in for a look, but only if his play demands it.

Guys should be able to play their way back on, assuming there are other issues not related to form (which is a speculation with James, but I haven't seen anything concrete on that yet, unlike with Arfield).

With James, people can't seem to look past the fact that, on paper, he should of been in the GC preliminary list.

Honestly though, I think Herdman just doesn't rate him. At his age I think he needs to do better than a relegation candidate in Denmark to ever get a sniff again. It's not a very high level, considering the level of our other options in the back. 

If he's playing lights out and his club is struggling and gets relegated, that's one thing, but I haven't read any reports about his outstanding play or anything.

Admittedly I haven't watch him either, so maybe he is playing well and talk of bringing him back is justified....

[narduch]

At the time of the Gold Cup 60 man squad release James wasn't playing much 

[Bison44]

Where would we put James on the pecking order then??  He has lots of INT experience, has worn the red plenty, should be comfortable with  a lot of the guys.  Kicked around europe, currently getting some PT with a poor Danish side.  

Level 1 Vittoria, Henry, Kennedy, Cornelius, 

Level 2 Sturing, Waterman...mb Bassong or a Singh??

I must be missing someone....but when I look at that it doesnt take much imagination to cross out 1 guy for injury, 1 guy for a yellow and all of a sudden we are in deep do do.  Maybe Herdman has moved on to younger guys that he sees are the future...but we still need to finish this WCQ and might need the depth James could bring.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

He's at a good club though, and I suspect they'll gradually get some results and at least challenge to not relegate. It is not the worst club in Denmark top flight. They have 8 points after 15 games, but two wins in the last three matches. They also won their round of 16 cup match at the end of October. So it's 3 wins in the last four matches.

I am not sure if anyone watched Mitjylland the other day vs. Borjan, they are very good. The level in Scandinavia on a club level has come up, in Denmark, Sweden and Norway, after more than a decade in a slump. So you just have to sit tight and watch how they do. I posted in the Borjan thread that I thought Denmark would be a good level for our players. 

[dyslexic nam]

I think it is safe to say that a lot of folks here are puzzled but the fact that James hasn’t gotten close to the national team in the last year or two.   Not saying he is outstanding but it certainly seems like he is a guy that should be in the mix for a fringe call up.  The complete absence of a call up or any real attention from Herdman really does make me wonder if something has happened behind the scenes.  

[Kadenge]

Well other than Doneil, James is the only defender that has WCQ experience and has played in Central America. We dont have a backup for Johnston at RCB and that is where James is currently playing... fast and strong in the air and would help on set pieces. It's clear  Herdman does not rate him for some reason, but if Alistair is out with an injury/card accumulation it may force the team to move to a 442 without a replacement. Henry is better in the middle. The last time I watched James was v Atalanta and he was a beast. 1 game I know 

 

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm not against James (or anyone else) coming back into the fold if their play merits it. That said, MLS is now a notch or two above Denmark. AJ and KM have really cement their place on side of the libero role that Vitoria seems to play. I don't think James or Henry really fills that role all too well, but Henry brings many other qualities. 

It's so hard to predict who might replace Vitoria going forward, but I'd expect someone to emerge possibly out of left field. So many possibilities in the CPL that could step into MLS and grow in the next few years. Rocco Romeo has looked pretty good in the limited views I've seen.

[Obinna]

Any ranking of our defenders needs to consider age and potential.

James has more experience than similar rivals, such as Waterman, but Joel has more recent experience with our current group, plus he has the flexibily to cover for Johnston in a back 3, and for me he's just a better, calmer and less error prone defender.

He's also 3 years younger and playing at a higher level.

2022 is very important, but we have an eye on 2026, so I wonder if Herdman is factoring that in as well. 

The flipside I think is that if James can get into a groove with his club and/or jump up a level he could leapfrong all the other options, since he has the experience already and is still very much in his prime.

James playing to his potential consistently would be great for the group, but I am not hopeful he makes a return in a meaningful way, if at all.

I see him like I see Ashtone Morgan. Good servent to the program and racked up 18 caps throughout the years (James is on 17 I think), but it feels like the sun has set on his national team career.  Kind of different positions, but to me they have roughly the same chances of coming back into the fold.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Obinna

[SoccMan]

I think his next move should be in the MLS , if he comes to the MLS and becomes a starter on a decent team then he should be considered . Maybe TFC should give him a look they really need center backs so you never know . 

[Unnamed Trialist]

37 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

I think his next move should be in the MLS , if he comes to the MLS and becomes a starter on a decent team then he should be considered . Maybe TFC should give him a look they really need center backs so you never know . 

If his team stays in top flight he should be considered.

I mean, people here think fringe players on one of the worst teams in MLS are fine prospects. I don't get why James should have to play on a "better" team before being considered, but rows and rows of scrub at a garbage TFC get even more rows of support for NT duty. 

The better teams in Denmark, based on what I've seen, even with a few players on a national team am ranked that high, rival MLS. 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If his team stays in top flight he should be considered.

I mean, people here think fringe players on one of the worst teams in MLS are fine prospects. I don't get why James should have to play on a "better" team before being considered, but rows and rows of scrub at a garbage TFC get even more rows of support for NT duty. 

The better teams in Denmark, based on what I've seen, even with a few players on a national team am ranked that high, rival MLS. 

Name a TFC center back getting support for NT duty...

[Pottsy3]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Name a TFC center back getting support for NT duty...

obviously Eriq Zavaleta 😂

[SoccMan]

Well from what I’m seeing so far in this World Cup run is guys playing major minutes in the MLS really contributing to our national team so far and being solid members to this team. Moreover , they also provided good depth in the Gold Cup when we were missing players . Hey this could all go south very easily and these MLSers could be a reason for that happening and we could be having a conversation that we need more guys in Europe to qualify for the World Cup rather than these MLS players we have , but so far so good with what these MLS players are providing to our national team.  I don’t watch the Denmark league so honestly can’t sit here and give anyone an opinion on the quality . I guess all I’m saying is based on what these Canadian MLS players are doing, if a James came to the MLS and did well than maybe he would also do well with our national team.

Edited November 8, 2021 by SoccMan

[RS]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Name a TFC center back getting support for NT duty...

He can't because it's yet another bad-faith argument on his part.

[MauditYvon]

Cornelius and James finally getting real play time at a decent level.

Johnston, Kennedy and Miller coming from nowhere. (Even Waterman had a good 2nd half season)

Vitoria making a great comeback and doesn't make his age.

Halbouni pushing soon?

CBs not that bad. Nothing stellar but you'll always be able to call up 2-3 players in form. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Name a TFC center back getting support for NT duty...

I am so glad you mentioned that because it proves my point even more. Though I never mentioned positions, as you can check if you look. 

My post is about club level and player worthiness, which I think you actually did understand.

No player not playing regularly on a decent team should be brought into the NT mix. Obviously, if you are playing a bit but on a better club, that is positive. If you are coming off an injury and that is why you are not playing, that is an exception. If you have shown in the past and we are pushed in a certain area, that is another. 

What irks me is the bias of so many posters. We are reading numerous posts going on and on about whether Okello or Marshall-Rutty or how dissapointing it is Shaffelburg that is not there, or Nelson, or what a good prospect Dunn, get those guys into a January camp, call up more guys than just 23. I get it, it is getting near stocking stuffer time. For too many here it's about stuffing the CMNT roster full of TFC players. It is a constant din on the board. Well the fact is: TFC was horrible this year and you don't call scrub from a bad team to a NT camp just for the hell of it. 

Then the contradiction: many of the same TFC cheerleaders come on making up a thousand reasons why a guy like James in Denmark is not ready. That sort of player is too quickly discounted, and the reasons are easy to find, are thrown out gratuitously and just pile up ad nauseam. It is totally biased and parochial thinking. And then the same narrow-minded posters insist that if James were in MLS, that would be different. Like on a shit team like TFC? Right.

Get your club play in order, and then see if you deserve a NT call-up.

And that is where your argument helps mine, though I hadn't thought of it. Because it makes even less sense to call fringe scrub on a bad team to cover positions that are perfectly well covered. And far more sense to take a chance on a guy with NT experience, pro experience, in a position we are thin at. Velje is worse than TFC? Probably. But when they make a run and are mid table in Denmark, in a league where there are guys playing who are on their NT, ranked top ten? And where there are teams like one I just watched that beat Borjan's Red Star?

In any case, for his club form, regardless of how well the club is doing, Cavallini should not be called in. Don't give me Shaffelburg if his team is poor, and I'd say the same about Pasher. Sorry buds. Brym, frigging insulting. Don't make guys playing Champions League have to make a serious run for World Cup beside novices on poor clubs with weak relegation level results.

But Cornelius neither, his team is 13/14 in Greece and has lost 5 straight, maybe more. They are doing as bad as James's team in fact, only his is in a slump and Manjrekar's team is doing better the last few weeks. Panetolikos is not a better team than Vejle Boldklub wouldn't say. And sure, James is not ready yet, because his club is not doing well enough.

But if they push into mid table, remind me what CBs we have in the NT program at a higher level? Right now we have 5 CBs in the mix, Vitória, Henry, Miller, Kennedy and Cornelius. If one gets a card or is injured, facing a three-match window, who would you go to next to cover the hole?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[MauditYvon]

Johnston? Plays FB with Nashville, but CB with us...

[Bison44]

RCB in a back 3.....not quite the same.   I doubt Johnston would play CB in a back 4.  The rest UT mentioned would.  

I dont quite understand the devotion to whether the team is doing well.  UT if you can drop Cav..ie his form is not sympatico with the teams, than why should we automatically disregard a Pasher because Houston is poor overall.  Is Gutierez a better player because Gauld and White are on fire for Vancouver and they made the playoffs??  Are SHaffs offensive abilities less because TFCs backline is a complete mess and the team cant keep a clean sheet?  Just wondering...

And I think a lot of the bluster about some of the MLS guys is for an semi-expected "camp poutine".  Something in Jan before the window that may or may not happen, but is used to get a bunch of the fringe north american guys together.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

53 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

RCB in a back 3.....not quite the same.   I doubt Johnston would play CB in a back 4.  The rest UT mentioned would.  

I dont quite understand the devotion to whether the team is doing well.  UT if you can drop Cav..ie his form is not sympatico with the teams, than why should we automatically disregard a Pasher because Houston is poor overall.  Is Gutierez a better player because Gauld and White are on fire for Vancouver and they made the playoffs??  Are SHaffs offensive abilities less because TFCs backline is a complete mess and the team cant keep a clean sheet?  Just wondering...

And I think a lot of the bluster about some of the MLS guys is for an semi-expected "camp poutine".  Something in Jan before the window that may or may not happen, but is used to get a bunch of the fringe north american guys together.  

Fact is most national teams call in players from the teams that are doing well. It is a key barometer. Doing well, on a club doing well, at as high a level as possible.

So that rules out Cavallini, but it may also rule out Cornelius. 

Or with enough continuity with the national team that an exception is made. IE Osorio, Laryea. If they were not already in the NT mix, on the basis of this season there is nothing to say neither would deserve a NT call-up.

If you do not instill this mentality, then guys coast and get comfortable. Want an example of someone who has not coasted? Tajon. But you could also say Ennin is not coasting, nor Miller, nor Bair, nor Amanda. And if Vejle pushes up the table, James is not coasting either.

Obviously I believe that a bottom dwelling team should not be supplying keepers or defenders to a NT, because most likely they are not having good Goals Against years. So far, that means James, or Cornelius. It might also mean Vitória, though his modest club was upper half of the table last season and this year is at least above relegation. Henry's club was in the upper half and is in their Championship round. Miller's team had a decent season ruined by basically one dumb result. No matter what you say about how good the guy is. With the major exception being that we are so thin we have to make do.

But the same with an attacker, there are relegation teams with one striker who shines, but I prefer to call in an attacker on a good team: he has the competition, the edge, the winning mentality. He's not just padding stats on a poor club. Shaffelberg, what are his stats again? And did he really shine on the NT enough to justify him having to be there with the depth we have? For me he did not, and since we are not thin in that spot--take a seriously look at Manjrekar James in two months if his club stint is going better. Pick the marginal defender and forget the equally marginal attacker.  

If I were a guy playing on a team in European competition, or doing well in my strong league, I would seriously wonder why a guy with no pedigree and no proven quality has to be called into the group trying to make Qatar. I've framed a house before--don't ask me to work for the same pay and same reward with a guy who is not very good at framing a house. Don't insult a serious project with a Brym, if you please.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

41 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But the same with an attacker, there are relegation teams with one striker who shines, but I prefer to call in an attacker on a good team: he has the competition, the edge, the winning mentality. He's not just padding stats on a poor club. Shaffelberg, what are his stats again? And did he really shine on the NT enough to justify him having to be there with the depth we have? For me he did not, and since we are not thin in that spot--take a seriously look at Manjrekar James in two months if his club stint is going better. Pick the marginal defender and forget the equally marginal attacker.  

All of that said, the difference between Shaffelburg and James is about 6 years. Sure you can argue whether he should have made the last squad, but there's always the appeal of what he can become and with potential comes the allure of bringing him into the group to see how he does. Hasn't Herdman publicly said he likes Jacob's mentality?

On the other hand, James is what he is at this point. He's not going to get the benefit of the doubt like a younger player, rightly or wrongly.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

All of that said, the difference between Shaffelburg and James is about 6 years. Sure you can argue whether he should have made the last squad, but there's always the appeal of what he can become and with potential comes the allure of bringing him into the group to see how he does. Hasn't Herdman publicly said he likes Jacob's mentality?

On the other hand, James is what he is at this point. He's not going to get the benefit of the doubt like a younger player, rightly or wrongly.

Fair enough. Perhaps we needed the Shaffelburg types more active in the Olympic qualifiers, we need u-20 and u-23 camps because we should not be experimenting with our WC qualifying campaign. We are trying to get to Qatar not here doing favours to promising up and comings. Except where we are vulnerable: centre back. 

I realised in my list of depth at CB I forgot someone: Atiba. He's played there for Besiktas, and I`d totally trust him back there, he has the nous and the head and also the physique to cover for us in the centre of the defense. 

[baulderdash77]

So a bit back on topic.  Toronto FC needs to gut its back line and rebuild.  I think James would be an upgrade for them and I wouldn’t mind seeing him move back to Canada and play for them.