Will Johnson (update)

[shermanator]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

But no chance? That seems dramatic

Not really. I just think that anyone thinking Canada will advance is looking at the games like a Complete Homer

[Complete Homer]

8 hours ago, shermanator said:

Not really. I just think that anyone thinking Canada will advance is looking at the games like a Complete Homer

I know you're kidding, but I never said I think they will advance, I said saying we have no chance is over dramatic 

[finchster]

8 hours ago, shermanator said:

Not really. I just think that anyone thinking Canada will advance is looking at the games like a Complete Homer

Canada lost their chance to qualify when they drew El Salvador, that was a game that they should've won and didn't. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, finchster said:

Canada lost their chance to qualify when they drew El Salvador, that was a game that they should've won and didn't. 

Ah but we won our chance to advance when we beat Honduras. Those counteract each other so we are still in it baby!

[jonovision]

7 hours ago, finchster said:

Canada lost their chance to qualify

Aren't we a cheerful bunch.

[BrennanFan]

Take this for what its worth.  I was personally given this info recently by someone you would all agree is a credible source in our little Canadian soccer community.  He told me not to attach his name, but he did not object when I asked if I could post this here. 

At the June CMNT camp, Will Johnson was vocally trashing Floro and his system to his teammates.  This is why he did not play in the first game against Azerbaijan, and then was sent home due to a supposed injury.  This is also why he was not called up to the Sept. WCQ games.

Johnson's behaviour was described as that of a "child".

[Northvansteve]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Take this for what its worth.  I was personally given this info recently by someone you would all agree is a credible source in our little Canadian soccer community.  He told me not to attach his name, but he did not object when I asked if I could post this here. 

At the June CMNT camp, Will Johnson was vocally trashing Floro and his system to his teammates.  This is why he did not play in the first game against Azerbaijan, and then was sent home due to a supposed injury.  This is also why he was not called up to the Sept. WCQ games.

Johnson's behaviour was described as that of a "child".

Floro is not a stupid man and there would be no reason to not start Johnson again unless it was for something like this. Very unfortunate. Hope for more depth in future so we can drop a malcontent without impacting the team's chances of success.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Surprising that you would vocalize before a friendly, after having accepted to go to a camp. Why not play and then criticize if the system is clearly detrimental as proved by the result.

Odd to vent like that after having seen the system before, so you could choose to opt out. Especially when he has before.

So vocally that the GM would find out, ie, not at all discreetly or in private, or in a way that was reasonable to teammates the could trust. Not to his closest confidants, or his agent, or his dad. But openly?

If it is true it just suggests that some pros are not very smart, fortunately it is not a majority.

But maybe Johnson thinks TFC is having a better season because of the brilliant system, instead of being able to attribute a huge chunk to defending better (what Floro was seeking) and having an amazing attacking player.

[Floortom]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Take this for what its worth.  I was personally given this info recently by someone you would all agree is a credible source in our little Canadian soccer community.  He told me not to attach his name, but he did not object when I asked if I could post this here. 

At the June CMNT camp, Will Johnson was vocally trashing Floro and his system to his teammates.  This is why he did not play in the first game against Azerbaijan, and then was sent home due to a supposed injury.  This is also why he was not called up to the Sept. WCQ games.

Johnson's behaviour was described as that of a "child".

Wouldn't be surprised if this was true. Larson hinted at a few players being strongly anti-Floro and seeing as he has most access to TFF players Johnson could be one of those

[Northvansteve]

I guess we should also note that Johnson, as it turns out, was right. 

[Obinna]

Interesting. I want to know more about what exactly Johnson said. What was it about Floro's system was he trashing I wonder?

[shermanator]

If what @BrennanFan says is accurate (and we have no evidence to backup whether the statement is true or false), then that's really disappointing to hear. I would expect more professionalism out of someone who's supposed to be a leader on the squad. Whether Johnson was right about Floro's system or not, to see this type of behaviour before the biggest games of the qualification cycle is incredibly discouraging. 

And if it is true, then I'm glad Johnson wasn't called to the last round of qualifiers. We don't need players thinking they're above the team, or the coaching staff.

[Big_M]

The usual bs after a coach makes a huge mistake. Manager and staff openly told the player and media that he wasn't fit enough and would be used if the team made it to the next round. Now weeks later someone said that something happened back in June...

[baulderdash77]

I tend to agree with Big_M.  It kinda sounds like sour grapes and now they're "floating" a rumor to cover their mistake.

 

 

[aloyol]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

If what @BrennanFan says is accurate (and we have no evidence to backup whether the statement is true or false), then that's really disappointing to hear. I would expect more professionalism out of someone who's supposed to be a leader on the squad. Whether Johnson was right about Floro's system or not, to see this type of behaviour before the biggest games of the qualification cycle is incredibly discouraging. 

And if it is true, then I'm glad Johnson wasn't called to the last round of qualifiers. We don't need players thinking they're above the team, or the coaching staff.

If true, history repeats itself in the case of our MNT. Some players (I think it was Brennan and DeRo) questioned head coach Dale Mitchell tactics ahead of a crucial WCQ in Honduras in 2008. That was a month after JDG went dancing after a heartbreaking loss against Honduras in MTL.

Our leaders, have for the most parts, been weak leaders in recent years...We lack an inspiring presence on the field (JdV and Craig Forrest are probably the last real leaders we had).

Edited September 17, 2016 by aloyol

[Dub Narcotic]

Floro and his allies go out blaming MLS, the players, etc... and etc....

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, Northvansteve said:

I guess we should also note that Johnson, as it turns out, was right. 

A player not believing in a coach's system is, actually, not at all right. Boycotting a system or not executing it is poor professionalism, if that is what happened.

I can assure you that when Ranieri was brought in a lot of players, perhaps most players at Leicester, had doubts about the system and voiced them amongst themselves. As did fans.

Same happened when Simeone started at Atletico. 

The only way any team that is not favoured can exceed is by committment, and that means players being on the same page as a coach. If Johnson, who has never had a premium coach in his life, thinks he knows better, he's a fool.

The point is, the coach has to decide and the players have to execute. The system may have been wrong, and so he's fired. He pays the consequence. This is standard, if you don't understand this you don't know how football works. If you have ever coached, you understand it absolutely has to be this way. A coach can adjust, as he is responding to analysis and problem solving, to his players' capacity to execute as well, but he has to be committed to something, and then work to succeed in it.

What did Johnson probably want? I'll tell you: any system, any at all, where he could play and have fun regardless of the success of the project.  Because, hey, let's not kid ourselves: this guy has always had a wishy-washy committment to the nats, he is way down the list in terms of committed players willing to sacrifice for Canada.

The coach fails, and is rightly fired. The players did not execute and they get another chance, with the next guy. So basically, as we sit, only one person gets the full blame. But if Johnson was at camps speaking in a way to undermine the system, then he was part of the problem, part of its failure, obviously.

Sad some here think that any future coach, or any coach anywhere, would do anything different. According to you guys one journeyman should be allowed to call the shots. 

I vote for Will Johnson as the next player coach--there, see how many likes that gets from the geniuses on this board.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, aloyol said:

If true, history repeats itself in the case of our MNT. Some players (I think it was Brennan and DeRo) questioned head coach Dale Mitchell tactics ahead of a crucial WCQ in Honduras in 2008. That was a month after JDG went dancing after a heartbreaking loss against Honduras in MTL.

Our leaders, have for the most parts, been weak leaders in recent years...We lack an inspiring presence on the field (JdV and Craig Forrest are probably the last real leaders we had).

The committment of all those guys around that time, Pesch, Nash, Hastings. We had committed guys, maybe not leaders but guys willing to bust their butts and who were mature men. That is how we won a GC against all odds, also how we made a Hex or two or got to the WC.

Right now the immaturity of Canada fans and Canada players is at a new high.

[BCM]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

... Because, hey, let's not kid ourselves: this guy has always had a wishy-washy committment to the nats, he is way down the list in terms of committed players willing to sacrifice for Canada.
 

I'll go somewhere I have not seen anyone on this board go - is this what we get when we rely on "Canadians" in name only. I like WJ, and I hope what's being reported is untrue, but the guy lived in Canada until he was what, about 1 or 2 years old, before moving to the UK and then growing up in Chicago from age ten. And correct me if I'm wrong, but his parents aren't Canadians. So how "Canadian" can he really feel? How much will such "Canadians" sacrifice for a country they barely know...

 

Disclosure - my father is Canadian but I only moved to Canada in the middle of high school.

Edited September 18, 2016 by BCM

[Unnamed Trialist]

What we should do with the next coach, half way through qualifying, is submit him to a democratic vote of the player pool, top 40 players say, and let them decide. He can try to keep his job by making them all happy, regardless of the results. Because that is perfect for footballers, a huge chunk of whom are functionally illiterate.

This is the supreme logic of the denizens of this board, who after failing a project insist on blaming one person for absolutely everything, including the effects of El Niño.

What I don't accept is for things to be taken to ridiculously immature levels. It is not like the results were worse than before, just not at all better.  After all, understood properly, shouldn't the president of the CSA take any responsibility at all for the result? After all, it was his man, his bet, his choice. And he submitted all of Canadian soccer to it for four years, unsuccessfully. Vic should resign, how do we know he will do a good job next cycle if this one he did not?

But no, the journeymen hacks are given the benefit of the doubt and we are back to square one.

[ob1]

Yes, lets re-hire Floro as now we know it was Johnson's fault all along. 

I can't wait until we go for the 3 draws next gold cup. What a fucking beautiful system.

Maybe 6 draws in WCQ will get us through next time.

Lets shoot any players with opinions, regardless if they work hard on the pitch. 

Lets make wild accusations that these players boycotted the system, and didn't execute (actually the evidence is clear on this one, as after we scored against El Salvador we continued to press for more, much to King of Spain's dismay) 

Lets call out players for not committing to playing even know they have a broken legs.

I want a coach who calls out early that we don't have the quality players to play offensively, that's how you get respect damn it. 

Until next time folks

PACHANGA!!!

[Cheeta]

18 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Floro and his allies go out blaming MLS, the players, etc... and etc....

Yeah, I don't know.  To me, it doesn't really pass the smell test.

Gotta be a half truth in there somewhere, though.  Maybe Will respectfully expressed an opinion or offered a suggestion that Floro didn't want to hear and it all got blown out of proportion.

If that is the case then a tragedy.  I think WJ was missed this last pairing of matches.

[BearcatSA]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

According to you guys one journeyman should be allowed to call the shots. 

On a whole  team of journeymen.

Edited September 19, 2016 by BearcatSA

[Guest]

I feel like this was just another "Osorio" issue and Floro was still up on his high horse

[Unnamed Trialist]

This is what Brennan Fan wrote: " Take this for what its worth.  I was personally given this info recently by someone you would all agree is a credible source in our little Canadian soccer community."

Some here want them talking out of their asses to be equivalent to someone usually reliable citing an unnamed source he claims most would consider reliable. 

But no, let's just make up stories to rebut the comment, talking pure imaginative speculation. 

I know an unnamed source cited by a reliable source does not seem extraordinarily sound, but it is a hell of a lot sounder than pure bullshit thrown around with no basis at all, wouldn't you say?