Will Johnson (update)

[king1010]

If hes reallly old school about duty and respect how does vitoria get a free pass when he literally not only didnt show up for a decade but showed up for a different team....

i think hes more about ppl respecting his ego than the actual canmnt

Edited August 28, 2016 by king1010

[rob.notenboom]

The 'apparently skipped camp' when Will was actually at camp in June makes no sense.

[baulderdash77]

If that's true then I'm not sure Floro has the temperament to be the HC.  As a coach he's been great at recruiting players for us and he's installed a good disciplined structure but he can't hold grudges against players.

Johnson and Osorio are 2 of our top 5 overall midfielders.  If they're both out of the program it really weakens us.  We don't have the kind of depth to exclude these guys.

[Free kick]

7 hours ago, king1010 said:

So hoilett can hold out for years and debate playing for a different country but johnson who didnt show up to a friendly in europe mid tfc season gets blacklisted. 

Edit: Vittoria is an even better example

This is worth repeating.  

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Free kick

[shermanator]

50 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

The 'apparently skipped camp' when Will was actually at camp in June makes no sense.

Yup, he left the camp with an injury. So, I think that blows a hole in Larson's theory....

http://www.wakingthered.com/2016/6/3/11852224/will-johnson-leaves-canada-camp-with-hip-flexor-injury-azerbaijan-toronto-fc-injury-list?utm_campaign=wakingthered&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[kohanz]

To play devil's advocate (with absolutely no knowledge of the situation), if he left camp due to some kind of disagreement, it would probably be reported as an injury, no? Not saying the injury wasn't real, but possibly a cover for more issues?

Edited August 28, 2016 by kohanz

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

If that's true then I'm not sure Floro has the temperament to be the HC.  As a coach he's been great at recruiting players for us and he's installed a good disciplined structure but he can't hold grudges against players.

Johnson and Osorio are 2 of our top 5 overall midfielders.  If they're both out of the program it really weakens us.  We don't have the kind of depth to exclude these guys.

Yes.  He is putting his ego ahead of the team.  Even though some will argue the top 5 part, these two are still competitent pieces with some credentials and this team right now lacks that in mid field when you callup players whom you could argue are not in a semi-pro environment.

PS.:  i am not changing my mind on anything regarding Floro if we win in Honduras.   Sure, we can win in Honduras and i still hope we do.  It is afterall one game and anything can happen and we can still move onto the hex.  But this kind of attitude and ego problems by a coach is detrimental in the longer term. If we dont pay for it now, we will pay for it in the next round and we will wonder "what if".   We cant afford that in Canada, we dont have the depth that Spain does.  And the system has to show that the National team is some kind of pinnacle and achievement to players in the system and not some fiefdom for the head coach.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Free kick

[Free kick]

9 hours ago, apbsmith said:

This +1

I wish WJ the best and I know he will be back in the mix and a key part for us.  I don't watch much MLS, but I watched the TFC/Impact game last night. WJ did absolutely nothing whatsoever to impress me yesterday, couldn't make a pass, gave that ball over quite a bit, felt he was always a step behind the play.  

But we can say that because we can actually get to see him play. You just need to have TV, some live stream or just go to the game in person.  You can see many games a year with these players in a club setting hand get to see their good games as well.     I will bet with confidence that there more than half (maybe more) of the players on the CanMNT that none of us have seen play in the past year.  

Edited August 29, 2016 by Free kick

[shermanator]

After it was reported that Johnson was injured, he started against the Impact in the Voyageurs Cup on June 8 (as per the agreement TFC / Canada had). I wonder if this was the last straw in a series of instances where Johnson left the team or turned down invites because of injury / illness.

Add the June scenario to the fact he turned down the 2015 Gold Cup, citing his injury recovery and travel, even though he played 90 minutes in games in Philly and Portland in that time frame. And him leaving the 2013 Gold Cup due to illness, followed by him playing 90 minutes immediately after the tournament. And the ongoing issues from his leg break in 2014. 

Not trying to drag him through the mud here, just thinking of the suggestion by @kohanz that there may be more to the reported injury in June.

[apbsmith]

22 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Yipes!!  I cant believe the critisisms of Johnsons game.  Does anyone seriously not have him as our #3 or #4 central midfielder?  Everybody has holes or weakness in their game.  But who wants Piete or Straith in there as opposed to....  

I was only criticizing his recent performances; away game in Mexico this summer, his away performance in Honduras last cycle and his full 90min performance this past Saturday.  I was doing this as a fan and I am sure WJ will even say he didn't play well those games. Overall, I am actually a big WJ fan, I just love seeing him play to his potential.

I just don't think those performances fit into "floro's plans" for the away game in Honduras @ this time... as in this week.  

I do feel if WJ was playing 90 mins + a game for the last two months no doubt he would be called.

I do have the sentiment with a late game sub & I do think he would have huge value for the home game vs EL Salvador, so that is what I am more upset about, him not playing in Honduras... at this current time... I am OK with.

[Kent]

22 hours ago, Bison44 said:

And who exactly said that the fence sitters coming over to CAN was all Floro's doing?? I must have missed that.  

For the record, nobody said that. I said " For anyone that just wants to come to terms with Johnson's exclusion and get on with their lives, just imagine that Floro is the sole reason for the dual nationals that committed under his watch."

The point is, we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in either direction. We don't know exactly why these players chose to commit to Canada, and we don't know why the other players are not getting called up. Someone mentioned that this is not the time to discipline players by not calling them up, and yet we say the USSF is giving Hope Solo a convenient suspension after the Olympics when it really should have been done earlier for her domestic abuse charges. If you want players to stop skipping out on the Gold Cup or whatever it is that Johnson, Osorio, Teibert may have done to be refused call ups, then perhaps this is exactly the kind of thing the program needs.

Anyways, I said what I said to help anyone get beyond the roster list so they can start looking forward to the actual game, but it seems most people don't want to get passed it yet. Feel free to continue to complain. You are allowed to do that too.

I'd also just like to add that I, along with a lot of people on this forum I believe, were looking past 2018 towards 2022 after 8-1 happened. A lot of us assumed this cycle was a write off and we should just play the kids. Now we are talking like it would be a huge underachievement if Canada gets knocked out at the same stage we always get knocked out.

[jonovision]

19 minutes ago, Kent said:

I'd also just like to add that I, along with a lot of people on this forum I believe, were looking past 2018 towards 2022 after 8-1 happened. A lot of us assumed this cycle was a write off and we should just play the kids. Now we are talking like it would be a huge underachievement if Canada gets knocked out at the same stage we always get knocked out.

Yes.

[dyslexic nam]

8-1 was brutal, but I don't know anyone who had already conceded the whole next qualification cycle and started planning for 2022.  That seems to be a bit excessive - and I was as soul-crushed as anyone.

 

 

[jonovision]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

8-1 was brutal, but I don't know anyone who had already conceded the whole next qualification cycle and started planning for 2022.  That seems to be a bit excessive - and I was as soul-crushed as anyone.

 

 

That was a widely held view in these parts. Not necessarily about the 8-1, just that there was a generational talent gap between Hutch, JDG, and some of the guys who have already retired; and the expected explosion of young talent pumped out by the MLS academies that would be maturing in time to contribute by 2022.

Edited August 29, 2016 by jonovision

[aloyol]

I remember some discouraged posters claiming we should only play young players for the 2018 cycle but they were a minority and not taken really seriously.

At the beginning of the current cycle I felt the Hex might be a tough task for us, but now that we have some new players like Arfield and Hoilett joined the program, I think my expectations are a bit higher for this group and Floro.

Edited August 29, 2016 by aloyol

[apbsmith]

Floro;

“Why not? I am very happy with Will. I consider he is a very good player and a very good person,” said Floro. “If he is in good condition, he will be with us, without any question.”

Squizz:

"But if the team advances to the Hexagonal round (which begins in November), the TFC man will be right back in the mix."

WJ:

"Is what it is"

I agree let's move on and focus on the game.  We can criticize and get the pitch forks out after.

I also agree, I was also on the band wagon for the youth movement and focus on 2022. Now I have SOME hope. 

Can't !*#^!)#^$ wait for Friday!

Allez les Rouges!

 

 

[shermanator]

44 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

8-1 was brutal, but I don't know anyone who had already conceded the whole next qualification cycle and started planning for 2022.  That seems to be a bit excessive - and I was as soul-crushed as anyone.

I was definitely one of the people who held the view that we didn't stand a chance in making it to the hex for the 2018 cycle. Still am, to be honest, even after all the new players we've brought into the fold.

[Complete Homer]

9 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I was definitely one of the people who held the view that we didn't stand a chance in making it to the hex for the 2018 cycle. Still am, to be honest, even after all the new players we've brought into the fold.

You really don't think we have a chance when two draws gets us there, or even a loss to Honduras and a win against ES with a favourable GD? Honduras hasn't played at Azteca yet, their GD lead isn't safe by any stretch

Edited August 29, 2016 by Complete Homer

[king1010]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

For the record, nobody said that. I said " For anyone that just wants to come to terms with Johnson's exclusion and get on with their lives, just imagine that Floro is the sole reason for the dual nationals that committed under his watch."

The point is, we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in either direction. We don't know exactly why these players chose to commit to Canada, and we don't know why the other players are not getting called up. Someone mentioned that this is not the time to discipline players by not calling them up, and yet we say the USSF is giving Hope Solo a convenient suspension after the Olympics when it really should have been done earlier for her domestic abuse charges. If you want players to stop skipping out on the Gold Cup or whatever it is that Johnson, Osorio, Teibert may have done to be refused call ups, then perhaps this is exactly the kind of thing the program needs.

Anyways, I said what I said to help anyone get beyond the roster list so they can start looking forward to the actual game, but it seems most people don't want to get passed it yet. Feel free to continue to complain. You are allowed to do that too.

I'd also just like to add that I, along with a lot of people on this forum I believe, were looking past 2018 towards 2022 after 8-1 happened. A lot of us assumed this cycle was a write off and we should just play the kids. Now we are talking like it would be a huge underachievement if Canada gets knocked out at the same stage we always get knocked out.

Osorio not being called has nothing to do with skipping Gold Cups. It's the complete opposite. He wanted to stay on the field during the Gold Cup. It has to do with Floro's ego being hurt because Osorio was upset after being subbed off. Tierbert was at the Gold Cup as well...

No passion allowed in Floro's camp. Only allowed to be stonefaced. 

If this is the exact thing the program needs then why are we rewarding holdouts like Vitoria and Hoilett with call ups. (I am 100% in favour of their callups by the way)

Don't we want to stop players from fence sitting and waiting until all other options are exhausted before playing for Canada. 

It's a two way street. But things seem to be going only one way at the moment. You teach a lesson to certain players for skipping a friendly but a blind eye is turned to players who ignored our team for the better part of a decade. Other future fence sitters may see this and think they can always walk onto Canada as a fallback. Other committed national team players who the odd time choose to skip a friendly or show a hint of emotion may be turned away from the NT because they make one mistake and the coach "banishes" them. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by king1010

[shermanator]

32 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

You really don't think we have a chance when two draws gets us there, or even a loss to Honduras and a win against ES with a favourable GD? Honduras hasn't played at Azteca yet, their GD lead isn't safe by any stretch

Based on how the rest of the qualification cycle has gone, I don't believe either of those scenarios are likely.

[Complete Homer]

12 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Based on how the rest of the qualification cycle has gone, I don't believe either of those scenarios are likely.

But no chance? That seems dramatic

[Kent]

31 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Osorio not being called has nothing to do with skipping Gold Cups. It's the complete opposite. He wanted to stay on the field during the Gold Cup. It has to do with Floro's ego being hurt because Osorio was upset after being subbed off. Tierbert was at the Gold Cup as well...

No passion allowed in Floro's camp. Only allowed to be stonefaced. 

Oops, I guess I was wrong when I said "we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes". You know exactly what is going on, and know all of Floro's motives.

[king1010]

10 minutes ago, Kent said:

Oops, I guess I was wrong when I said "we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes". You know exactly what is going on, and know all of Floro's motives.

Im stating a fact. Osorio was at the Gold Cup. He didn't skip it. Skipping the Gold Cup is not why he is off the team. 

No need for the sarcasm. I don't claim to know exactly what is going on. I am going by what has been reported by some journalists who follow soccer in the country. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by king1010

[Kent]

1 minute ago, king1010 said:

Im stating a fact. Osorio was at the Gold Cup. He didn't skip it. Skipping the Gold Cup is not why he is off the team. 

Yes, that part was a fact, then it was followed by speculation. I know Osorio was at the Gold Cup. I didn't say he skipped the Gold Cup. I said something to the effect of "... skipped the Gold Cup or whatever it was that Johnson, Osorio, and Teibert did". They could have all done wildly different things for all we know.

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

Yes, that part was a fact, then it was followed by speculation. I know Osorio was at the Gold Cup. I didn't say he skipped the Gold Cup. I said something to the effect of "... skipped the Gold Cup or whatever it was that Johnson, Osorio, and Teibert did". They could have all done wildly different things for all we know.

I understand. 

Cheers.