Will Johnson (update)

[shermanator]

4 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Most definitely passes "the smell test" to me. He wasn't injured because he was playing for his club. Any suggesion that he isn't good enough would be laughable. This is a very plausible explanation.

Agreed, there is no way Johnson was injured. It was reported on June 3 that he was sent home due to injury, and then he managed to play 80 minutes 6 days later halfway across the world. Either that or it was one hell of a recovery!

[BCM]

WJ said something like "the truth will come out" - well, did it? 

[Bison44]

Well maybe its starting to come out.  We all knew something was fishy, and we howled when Johnson wasn't picked for those last 2 games.  Some sort of spat with Floro would make sense.  Strife with the manager is always bad for everyone no matter what kind of dickhead he is. But as one of the seasoned veterans on the CMNT, maybe he felt like we were circling the bowl and he had to say something about tactics and substitutions.  We will probably never know, but Floro is gone and a new chapter for the mens team will be starting, lets hope Johnson gets on board and is a team player.   

Shermanator is right about having professionalism, thought Johnson was better than that.  But who is the weasel/Blabber mouth that leaks this tidbit of info? (not talking about you Brennanfan) At least you didnt see Johnson in front of the cameras airing dirty laundry.   He may have slammed the coach, but he didnt take it public.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

Any time you talk to a member of the MNT, or a family member (especially wives and GFs, who tend to speak their minds out of the need to voice frustrations, unlike dads, who as virtual agents have learned to be discreet), you will pick up a tidbit, which you usually cannot source or have to partially envelope in ambiguity if you want to repeat it. Since otherwise you are subject to losing that particularly pleasant thing which is the very contact itself. So often the more you really know, the less you can really say.

I know of very important details about MNT member careers, affecting NT coaches, call-ups, decisions, that I could never repeat publicly and never will, information that would explain pieces of puzzles. Probably a lot of people here could say the same thing and more. I used to be able to say more about certain players I had contact with years ago and don't now, so I have lost relevance. I think pro players understand social media better, to a point, and have been trained to watch their comments as well, which may be why on social media they can seem so frivolous --it is the only thing that will not cause an unwanted shitstorm.

[Cheeta]

17 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Most definitely passes "the smell test" to me. He wasn't injured because he was playing for his club. Any suggesion that he isn't good enough would be laughable. This is a very plausible explanation.

Except that bit about WJ mouthing off or being subversive, the foundation for his exile.  Maybe I missed something over the years but that seems the exact opposite of the man.

Like I wrote, I'm sure something put Floro off but I'm doubting that the punishment fit the crime.  At least until some more solid information come out. 

[Blackdude]

9 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Except that bit about WJ mouthing off or being subversive, the foundation for his exile.  Maybe I missed something over the years but that seems the exact opposite of the man.

Like I wrote, I'm sure something put Floro off but I'm doubting that the punishment fit the crime.  At least until some more solid information come out. 

You mean the Will Johnson who complained about his per diem on Twitter 4 years ago? (Sure I'm taking something that was old but if a player is willing to tweet that, why couldn't you see him going at Floro? I can't recall what happened this summer between him and Merrit Paulson, so I won't comment. Johnson is no angel.

[Havoc88]

12 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Shermanator is right about having professionalism, thought Johnson was better than that.  But who is the weasel/Blabber mouth that leaks this tidbit of info? (not talking about you Brennanfan) At least you didnt see Johnson in front of the cameras airing dirty laundry.   He may have slammed the coach, but he didnt take it public.  

Weasel? WTF are you talking about. Any one of us on this board, if they had access to someone on any team that has some inside info, would ask them about it. And if that person told you what they knew, they are a weasel? Or a blabber mouth? If XYZ player didn't specifically say not to say something that is one thing, but if you ask something and are relayed info that was either observed or known to some (not all) IMO I don't see what the big deal is.

Posting it here, like Unnamed Trialist noted, is another thing. And like him, I have heard my share of details that shouldn't be posted online because things are always taken out of context and people interpret them as they see fit.

[ted]

On 2016-09-17 at 2:31 PM, shermanator said:

If what @BrennanFan says is accurate (and we have no evidence to backup whether the statement is true or false), then that's really disappointing to hear. I would expect more professionalism out of someone who's supposed to be a leader on the squad. Whether Johnson was right about Floro's system or not, to see this type of behaviour before the biggest games of the qualification cycle is incredibly discouraging. 

And if it is true, then I'm glad Johnson wasn't called to the last round of qualifiers. We don't need players thinking they're above the team, or the coaching staff.

So, you think that a player, a leader, should simply STFU if they see something wrong?

You think that discussing the coaches performance within the team is some how "unprofessional"?

How is questioning the coach FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM putting yourself, "above the team"?

[jpg75]

The better question is how did Floro hear about it?

#snitchesgetstitches

[shermanator]

52 minutes ago, ted said

So, you think that a player, a leader, should simply STFU if they see something wrong?

You think that discussing the coaches performance within the team is some how "unprofessional"?

How is questioning the coach FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM putting yourself, "above the team"?

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, ted, most of which are things that I did not say anywhere in my post. Speaking up is definitely fine, but there are ways in which to bring up grievances with the coach. "Vocally trashing" and "behaviour described as that of a child" (as BrennanFan said in his original post on the issue) are not ways to go about this.

I don't know what happened or how it happened, but based on the description provided by BrennanFan, no that is not how a leader airs grievances with the coaching staff.

[ted]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Yes, it is Ted. If you have a problem with the coach, you talk to the coach about it - privately.

It is very unprofessional to stir up trouble by criticizing the coach to other players and no good can ever come of it: in this case we lost one of our best players for two crucial WCQs.

No decent coach would ever stand for it.

Well, here's the problem: discussing the coaches performance and, "stirring up trouble" are different things in my book.

One can certainly lead easily to the other and for the latter I agree a coach needs to deal with it.

It is not clear however that this was Johnson's intent nor, in fact, what happened.

 

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth...

Sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to understand your position.

Your clarification makes sense to me. It does sound like Johnson overstepped.

[to70]

In that game vs Azerbijian didn't we play the game with mostly CB's in the starting line-up. As a player I would be upset at that as well.

As far as talking to the coach it would depend whether Floro was approachable.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Yes, it is Ted. If you have a problem with the coach, you talk to the coach about it - privately.

It is very unprofessional to stir up trouble by criticizing the coach to other players and no good can ever come of it: in this case we lost one of our best players for two crucial WCQs.

No decent coach would ever stand for it.

I think there are more than those way to deal with a problem on a club or NT than a talk with coach.

First things players do is speak amongst themselves, in hotel rooms, with the guys they are closest to. They speak with family, only sometimes this is helpful, often agents and dads are pretty blind and rather dumb because all the see is the career, not the play (not always, last father of a NT player I spoke to was very sharp and even keel). Smart ones try to engage the assistant coaches and coaching staff before they get to the head coach, as that is the way to start the dialogue. And I doubt, knowing his English, that Floro spoke very much at any length with anyone but the Spanish speakers on the team, Julian and Piette. From the way he dispensed with Aleman it seems it did not matter much to him, but it could have to the players, to not be able to dialogue with Floro properly. So you can voice a concern without getting to the head coach, but not by criticizing. More like, with an assistant, asking what he could do better or what he has to do to get more minutes. Hell, my kid does this on his u-19 (he is negotiating a change of position for this season, no less), any relatively mature player will learn this.

Usually, since a player wants to play, he adjusts to the demand and plays his heart out. Even out of position and doing what he does worse, just to play. He may not be happy if things are not working. Still, the coach sees he is trying to execute, has him adjust for errors, he may play more, he may be changed. But he's tried. A player who is not getting minutes will see all the contradictions in the system and may voice them. 

Exactly what kind of major concern are you going to have hanging around in a small town hotel in Austria playing a bunch of friendlies on a nice carpet of grass? Did Johnson have some kind of revelatory moment, did a voice come to him from the heavens and he fell off his horse? And, most importantly: was that the right time in the story to write yourself out of it?

 

[Bertuzzi44]

6 hours ago, jpg75 said:

The better question is how did Floro hear about it?

#snitchesgetstitches

Haha well who had the most to gain from the status quo? #Ricketts

[Moldy9]

19 hours ago, Blackdude said:

You mean the Will Johnson who complained about his per diem on Twitter 4 years ago? (Sure I'm taking something that was old but if a player is willing to tweet that, why couldn't you see him going at Floro? I can't recall what happened this summer between him and Merrit Paulson, so I won't comment. Johnson is no angel.

Johnson seems like a dick just watching him on the field run up to opponents trying to bait/lure/instigate something. Guess he can be a real douche bag off the field as well it seems judging by the comments. Guess this is what Molinaro was referring to when he said "more to follow".

[dyslexic nam]

Not trying to stir up shit, but I am not prepared to throw Johnson under the (parked) bus on the basis of a second-hand quote.  It seems like there was something between Floro and Johnson at some point, and action was taken.  At this point, only one of those two individuals has a future with the CMNT.  I have no interest in trashing him - especially since he usually gives 100% for the team when he is on the field.

 

[paul-collins]

The editorial bits in Brennanfan's post are what bothers me.  Describing what Johnson was doing as "trashing" and then asserting that he was acting like a child says that the person who told this to Brennanfan has already written off Johnson.

I don't doubt that Brennanfan has transcribed it accurately, nor do I doubt that he believes his source is legit (and that we would believe the same). But it definitely shows this person's own judgement of Johnson, over and above the incident itself.

[1996]

Floro is gone good riddance, he had problems with two players that were good enough to possibly have been starters  in that game in Honduras , I just keep reminded myself this, that in a country where we have such a small pool of any so called talent we had a coach who thought he had the luxury of keeping players with a little  bit of talent off the team, I'm so happy he is gone, I did not disagree with Hart's dismissal because after a defeat like that you almost have no choice, however, at least Hart tried to put the best players at his disposal on the roster as much as he could in the end he still failed but there was not too many what if's with his player selections and even in game substitutes, but with Floro oh God so many what if's!

[Ruffian]

Not just 2. There was the early spat with Teibert. He should have been on the roster instead of others called. I wouldn't be surprised if Floro still carried a grudge even though the CSA used Teibert as a marketing piece in Vancouver.

[Obinna]

What I never understood about Floro was that tactically, the players respected him, appreciated him, and bought into his approach, which was to play to our strengths and not our weaknesses; yet when it came to player selection, the choices were often so awful.

That was the most painful thing - for once we has a detail oriented coach with experience and confidence to match, and I would even go as far as saying the approach was right, but again, the players chosen to execute particular roles was wrong and it cost us. 

The biggest ones for me where Piette playing advanced and Straith playing CDM. Piette doesn't have the attacking instincts and Straith is not composed enough under pressure. I was okay with Henry at RB, but had he invested in Arid after Ghana, I think he would have had the luxury of playing Doneil at CB. While I'm on a tangent, I'll throw Ouimette in there as well. Yes he did good playing as a full back, but he's limited with the ball at his feet. I would have preferred those opportunities to go to Aird.

Anyways, I think if we combined Hart's player selection with Floro's philosophy, we'd have qualified.....Stephen always chose the best players for the roles, but tactically we weren't disciplined enough, amongst other things.

 

[shermanator]

According to this article on the MLS website (which quotes an interview by a certain MLSE mouthpiece that I don't want to link to), Will Johnson has indicated he will test out free agency in the offseason. He doesn't say outright that he wants to leave TFC, but it sounds like he's not too happy with his role off the bench right now.

So, within 12 months Johnson has been frozen out of an MLS cup winning squad, had some alleged issues with the national team coaching staff resulting in exclusion from the squad during the most important qualifiers of this cycle, and now had his role in another MLS cup run greatly diminished due to injury. Not a great year for him.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/11/20/relegated-bench-role-toronto-fcs-will-johnson-may-test-free-agency

Edited November 21, 2016 by shermanator

[David C.]

16 minutes ago, shermanator said:

According to this article on the MLS website (which quotes an interview by a certain MLSE mouthpiece that I don't want to link to), Will Johnson has indicated he wants to see what will happen if he goes to free agency in the offseason. He doesn't necessarily indicate whether he wants to leave TFC, but it sounds like he's not too happy with his role off the bench right now.

So, within 12 months Johnson has been frozen out of an MLS cup winning squad, had some alleged issues with the national team coaching staff resulting in exclusion from the squad during the most important qualifiers of this cycle, and now had his role in another MLS cup run greatly diminished due to injury. Not a great year for him.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/11/20/relegated-bench-role-toronto-fcs-will-johnson-may-test-free-agency

I wonder if Will simply isn't the same player after his injury. It doesn't make sense that in one season - he went from being regarded as one of the league's best midfielders, to suddenly being relegated to a bench/substitute role on a team that actually went out to specifically get a replacement (Armando Cooper) for his spot. Hopefully, he lands a better situation elsewhere for next year but I'm worried that he may be on an accelerated decline as he nears turning 30.

Edited November 21, 2016 by David C.

[Big_M]

Win the cup with TFC and do it again with a fourth team, not a bad idea.

[Obinna]

I think he'll be an expensive role player in this league moving forward. Maybe he gets picked up by an expansion side and becomes a key figure, but I think it's unlikely this time around.

His salary is pretty large and he's come off a major injury, and although new teams will want his leadership, I don't know if they'll be willing to do so at his price tag.

Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[Keegan]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think he'll be an expensive role player in this league moving forward. Maybe he gets picked up by an expansion side and becomes a key figure, but I think it's unlikely this time around.

His salary is pretty large and he's come off a major injury, and although new teams will want his leadership, I don't know if they'll be willing to do so at his price tag.

Hopefully I am wrong.

 

I think you are, there are still a ton of teams Will could fit in on as a starter.  He's been extremely lucky/unlucky to have been a part of some of the best teams in MLS in the past 7-8 seasons.  I can't name many teams in this league he wouldn't be a starter on once you get past a few impressive midfields.