Will Johnson (update)

[El Hombre]

12 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Being a professional is getting on with your job and being a member of the team, pretty sure he's always done that with Toronto and Portland even when he was benched.  Not like he was causing problems like Drogba during important matches, the season is over it's okay to be human now (within reason).  

Would it be unprofessional for an executive to say he left his old post because he wasn't playing a big enough role but in the time he was aggrieved got on with his work?  No, so why is it here?  

 

So anything better than Drogba is exemplary?  That's a pretty low bar you set.

And yes, it would be unprofessional for an executive to say that.  Quit whining about the size of your role and do something about it.  Or move on.  Don't blame everyone else for your problems.  Own them and move on.

[BearcatSA]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

Cooper Osorio Bradley was a better fit for Toronto. Simple as that. Cooper gives them the right balance. Of the 3, Johnson is most similar to Bradley, and he's not taking his spot obviously. That was always my worry when Johnson came to Toronto. Too much like Bradley.

To me, Bradley in this current deep role is very similar to Kyle Beckerman, the player who formed a very successful tandem with Johnson at RSL. I see more complementing skills than redundancy.  But a new contract on the same pay packet as last year would not be cap friendly enough to accommodate the club's other player acquisition goals, which by several indications looks to be a proven attacking mid.  And similar to the Perquis situation, if you feel you have players on your roster who can do the job for much less or others on your radar who you can sign on cheaper terms, you're going to find ways to move a guy or, in this case, make that guy move himself.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

To me, Bradley in this current deep role is very similar to Kyle Beckerman, the player who formed a very successful tandem with Johnson at RSL. I see more complementing skills than redundancy.  But a new contract on the same pay packet as last year would not be cap friendly enough to accommodate the club's other player acquisition goals, which by several indications looks to be a proven attacking mid.  And similar to the Perquis situation, if you feel you have players on your roster who can do the job for much less or others on your radar who you can sign on cheaper terms, you're going to find ways to move a guy or, in this case, make that guy move himself.

I guess we both see the game differently. For me, Bradley is very different from Beckerman at RSL. Johnson played in a diamond there, with Gravaboy on the right and Morales at the top. Don't quite see the similarities to the TFC set up.

In Toronto, Bradley, Johnson and Osorio play as a midfield 3, with all 3 interchanging (though Bradley was closest to the back 4). Bradley plays as a box-to-box guy and so does Will Johnson. Both are great tacklers and have great engines. Both are leaders and organizers but are limited offensively (in comparison with Cooper, or even Osorio).

If your opinion is that they are complimentary rather than redundant, do you care to touch on how you believe they are different? By the way, I think Cooper is the perfect compliment to Bradley, with Osorio being sort of like the glue between them both.

[Guest]

Not sure if it has been said but Johnson has apologized for his statement regarding his teammates but has stated his differences with his manager was not personal but tactical  

Edited January 13, 2017 by Guest

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, canta15 said:

Not sure if it has been said but Johnson has apologized for his statement regarding his teammates but has stated his differences with his manager was not personal but tactical  

I appreciate that.  That's the right move.

[AvroArrow]

I think he just chose the wrong words.  If he had simply stated, "I feel I'm still a starter and I felt I wasn't getting that opportunity consistently in Toronto" most of us would have agreed and moved on.

Edited January 13, 2017 by AvroArrow

[BearcatSA]

On 1/12/2017 at 7:58 PM, Obinna said:

If your opinion is that they are complimentary rather than redundant, do you care to touch on how you believe they are different? 

Passing and possession maintenance, especially under pressure.

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Passing and possession maintenance, especially under pressure.

At risk of coming off as being difficult, do you mind if I ask you to elaborate? How exactly do "passing and possession maintenance, especially under pressure" make Bradley and Johnson complimentary to one another?

Johnson, for example, is not even strong in possession. I mean, he is not a risk but he doesn't excel when it comes to keeping the ball (especially under pressure). Johnson's strengths are covering ground, getting stuck in the tackle, and exploiting holes in the defence with runs from deep midfield positions. He can also strike a ball well.

Unfortunately, these are all Bradley's attributes as well, except he is a better player overall than Johnson. 

Now this is just my opinion, but in my experience it is better to have some balance and variety in your midfield.

The best compliment to Bradley was actually Cooper. Of all the midfielders, he has the most attacking ability. He is daring and creative and aside from Giovinco, the team really lacked in this department. He gave TFC a different look. 

Osorio was often the 3rd piece of this trifecta. He was the glue that connected Bradley and Cooper. He has the right combination of mobility, short passing and skill. Going forward, the team lost something without Osorio connecting Bradley and Cooper. You could argue it gained some defensive steel with Johnson in place of Osorio, and I would certainly agree, but you need to score goals to win. 

So while a midfield 3 of Bradley-Johnson-Cooper was decent by league standards, I think the Bradley-Osorio-Cooper combination was far more effective going forward and gave the midfield (and the team) the best balance.

Johnson was great coming off the bench for Osorio, or a great option to start in place of Osorio, because of his experience and compete level, but for me the team looked awkward with both him and Bradley in there. 

By the way, I think the plan is for Chapman to replace Johnson as Osorio's cover. His skill set is much closer to Osorio's. I think letting Johnson (and Cheyrou) go just speaks for how much faith they have in Chapman. 

BTW: I will say that I wish we could have kept Johnson. I don't trust Johnson to play as a loan defensive midfielder but now that Cheyrou is gone, I don't know who can fit into that slot now. I would love for them to bring in Hutchinson one day to either replace or play alongside Bradley.  

[BearcatSA]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

At risk of coming off as being difficult, do you mind if I ask you to elaborate? How exactly do "passing and possession maintenance, especially under pressure" make Bradley and Johnson complimentary to one another?

You asked how they were different and you have answered yourself:  Bradley's a better player with the ball.  And as he was used most of last season, he served as the deepest lying holding mid distribution hub linking the build up play from the back to the other more advanced players.  Johnson complements that by doing more of the box to box running and destroying higher up the pitch.  But Bradley still picks his moments to do similar things as he reads the situation (his athleticism and ball winning are very strong).  He was a better player tactically last season as a result, as opposed to previous seasons here where he ran around and tried to do everyone else's job in midfield.

I'm betting that Kreis will team Johnson with more of a deeper lying holding mid whose strength is distribution, allowing Johnson to continue to do what he does best.

As for his Johnson's replacement on the squad, I'm surprised no one's really mentioned Delgado because he's still very young and will continue to build strength to go along with his big engine.  He's a young guy who Vanney really likes.

Finally, as I mentioned before, if they choose to stay with three in the back, two wingbacks, and a midfield three, and if the club signs that attacking mid/playmaker they covet, either Osorio or Cooper is going to see his time cut, as well as the rest of the young guys in the pecking order.  The club's not standing pat in that area of the pitch and perhaps the competition for spots will reap bigger rewards. 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by BearcatSA

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

You asked how they were different and as you have answered yourself, Bradley's a better player with the ball.  And as he was used most of last season, he served as the deepest lying holding mid distribution hub linking the build up play from the back to the other more advanced players.  Johnson complements that by doing more of the box to box running and destroying higher up the pitch.  But Bradley still picks his most moments to do similar things as he reads the situation (his athleticism and ball winning are very strong).  He was a better player tactically last season as a result, as opposed to previous seasons here where he ran around and tried to do everyone else's job in midfield.

I'm betting that Kreis will team Johnson with more of a deeper lying holding mid whose strength is distribution, allowing Johnson to continue to do what he does best.

As for his Johnson's replacement on the squad, I'm surprised no one's really mentioned Delgado because he's still very young and will continue to build strength to go along with his big engine.  He's a young guy who Vanney really likes.

Finally, as I mentioned before, if they choose to stay with three in the back, two wingbacks, and a midfield three, and if the club signs that attacking mid/playmaker they covet, either Osorio or Cooper is going to see his time cut, as well as the rest of the young guys in the pecking order.  The club's not standing pat in that area of the pitch and perhaps the competition for spots will reap bigger rewards. 

 

Ah I see. Yes I see what you are saying now.

I think you are right in terms of how Kreis will use Johnson. It is too bad they sold Ceren because he's the sort of deep lying player you're alluding to. 

Delgado would also be a player you could slot in for Johnson (or Osorio), and yes Vanney really likes him, but I think Chapman is the best player to provide cover (or competition) for Osorio in the way that they currently play. Delgado can provide cover in multiple spots and that's probably not going to change anytime soon. 

Regarding the current formation and singing the attacking mid/playmaker they covet, I think they've already done that. The have made Cooper's loan into a permanent transfer. I think their first priority now will be adding another right back, followed by cover for Michael Bradley.

I'd be very surprised if they went for another attacking mid. I wouldn't complain though and yes if would result in Cooper probably moving to the bench. If that's the route they go, i'd like a player who can play both centrally and on the flank, just to give Vanney the flexibility to move back to a 4-4-2 if needed. 

 

[BearcatSA]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Regarding the current formation and singing the attacking mid/playmaker they covet, I think they've already done that. The have made Cooper's loan into a permanent transfer. I think their first priority now will be adding another right back, followed by cover for Michael Bradley.

I'd be very surprised if they went for another attacking mid. I wouldn't complain though and yes if would result in Cooper probably moving to the bench. If that's the route they go, i'd like a player who can play both centrally and on the flank, just to give Vanney the flexibility to move back to a 4-4-2 if needed. 

Several indications are is that they are trying to bring in someone for that role.  It also doesn't help when one of your DP attackers (the guy who really carried them during the playoff run) says during the end of season presser that, "To be completely honest, I think we could use a little bit more of a creative player that will take us a little bit higher than we are right now."  

That also doesn't necessarily mean that Cooper's moving to the bench, either.

[Gian-Luca]

With no cover for Beitashour (unless they use Delgado there but then he can't also be Bradley's cover) and no proven cover for three centre-backs. (Josh Williams left for Columbus) and a stated desire for another attacking mid, I can see TFC starting the year with a four man midfield again unless they sign a couple more central defenders.  Although maybe that's a discussion for a different thread than this one. 

[BearcatSA]

On 1/11/2017 at 3:34 PM, Gian-Luca said:

He did, but it was directed at Paul Mariner so that was totally okay in my books. Which would be the case if what De Guzman claimed Mariner said about him prior/at the time of the trade was true or not (though given Mariner's comments about other players like Plata who he also got rid of, I am inclined to believe Julian about this).

Or, he could have just Elsa-ed it and "let it go" and in the subsequent interviews he gave he could have concentrated instead about his play with Dallas (at the time).  There were a lot of train wrecks that season, for sure, but when you lower yourself to public sniping and score settling, it diminishes your own stature.

[Gian-Luca]

19 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Or, he could have just Elsa-ed it and "let it go" and in the subsequent interviews he gave he could have concentrated instead about his play with Dallas (at the time).  There were a lot of train wrecks that season, for sure, but when you lower yourself to public sniping and score settling, it diminishes your own stature.

I don't disagree with any of the above - it's just that any shots at Paul Mariner's coaching/managerial tenure at TFC in particular are ok in my book even if they do nothing or harm a player's career

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Is there a more recent Will Johnson thread? No matter.

Obviously he is no longer at Orlando.
https://www.themaneland.com/2020/1/29/21113319/2020-could-be-orlando-citys-best-year-defensively
https://www.themaneland.com/2020/2/21/21147639/orlando-city-signs-second-round-pick-joey-dezart
https://www.orlandocitysc.com/post/2019/11/21/orlando-city-sc-announces-2019-end-season-roster-decisions
https://www.orlandocitysc.com/post/2019/11/22/2019-mls-players-eligible-free-agency-re-entry-draft-waiver-draft

Where is he going? CPL? Is he retired? I would say give him one last call to the #CanMNT since we need to shift guys to the U23 squad but if he hasn't been playing...

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Done Done Done with the CMNT, better options available.

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I would say give him one last call to the #CanMNT since we need to shift guys to the U23 squad but if he hasn't been playing...

Fack no.... That's Rustys spot now. If not him, Wotherspoon, if not him Trafford, if not him Chapman, if not him call up a U16. 

CMNT is not a drop-in, especially for his level. 

[Obinna]

I don't think we should move on from Will Johnson for ideological reasons (such as "play your kids"). If he is still good enough, he deserves a place. If he is not then he does not deserve a place. Either way he must fight for his spot like everyone else. Same can be said for any of our players, not just Will. 

If there is a pragmatic reason to go young for a particular camp then so be it. I personally get excited when we invest in the future. However, to say no WJ because that's Rusty's spot? I don't agree with that, or at least I would add the caveat "it's Rusty's spot for now". If WJ finds form and Rusty (or whoever his competition is) falters, then we should be calling Will.

Things do not look promising at the moment though. I do think Teibert is currently ahead of him and seems to be in good form this preseason. Have a good feeling about Teibert in 2020. Hope it's a breakout season for him.

Also hope Johnson can find a home and play a role somewhere. The more depth we have, the better.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Obinna

[Shway]

I feel like you're contradicting yourself, just on the basis off how you finished the statement... "things do not look promising at the moment [for Johnson]".  You took the last cynical part of my comment and made it an ideological reason - which wasn't my point. The reality is he's 33, and he's been loosely committed to the national program. Overall his club minutes have been decreasing consistently over the past few seasons, and he's now in search of a new club.

Within this time we've had Wootherspoon (SPL), Eustaqiou (POR) come into the program, and Fraser emerge.

So when I said that "Rusty's spot", I'm more referring to the fact hes played more minutes, and has had better form than Johnson, but even he is still rightfully on the fringes of the CMNT but still committed (shows whenever called). Majority of my "23 team sheets" don't have Rusty or Willy in them, so my point is that if were calling up depth for depth sake (meaning they're most likely not going to play) I rather have Rusty or Wootherspoon, Trafford, Chapman or someone younger to gain the experience than Johnson at this time. Things would have to drastically change for him. 

Our focus is 2022 - we can't be talking about an average MLS 35yo as being depth. That doesn't make sense to me, we got more players now.

[Obinna]

So to paraphrase your point, you do not want WJ called because there are younger options and since these guys will sit on the bench anyways, you rather that experience go to guys who are worth investing in because they are younger and/or in a better club situation.

Tell me if I am misrepresenting your point. I want to make sure I am on the same page here.

Assuming I do understand, let me first say that I see where you are coming from. You see Johnson's call ups as potential experience for others being lost into a black hole of sorts. The fact his commitment has been unreliable in the past strengthens your position further.

While I get all that, I suggest that perhaps we wait to see what happens before we write anyone off. That's where I am coming from. We have more players now, but we still want to have as many options as possible.

I hope that clears up the part about me contradicting myself. I was acknowledging that yes, things are not looking great for him at the moment. At the moment, I am not sure he gets called over the guys who are attached and will be playing - Rusty, Spoony, Chappy (can we start calling him that?).

That is very different than saying we should not call him though, so no contradiction as I see. Things can change quickly and players should earn calls on merit. If he gets back on track and plays well, he should be called if Herdman thinks his experience can be useful.

Is it fair to argue that certain situations may call for an experienced dressing room guy on the bench, rather than someone less experienced? I do acknowledge that sometimes we'll want depth opportunities to go the other way, as you are suggesting. 

 

 

[soccer.shocker]

You lost me at Trafford. 

[CanadaFan123]

10 minutes ago, soccer.shocker said:

You lost me at Trafford. 

Same lol the guy is 27 and playing second division Scotland.  He will likely never be in the convo again. Harry Paton is playing at the top level and is scratching to get in the u23 team for context. 

[soccer.shocker]

Paton will be with U23 yes for sure but I don’t think there’s a depth chart deep enough for Trafford at the moment. 

[Bison44]

Any word on rumors he might be going to Ottawa?  That would be a heck of a pay cut..wasnt he making damn near 500g last year?  I find it hard to believe with the expansion teams coming in Johnson cant find a job in MLS.  

[SpursFlu]

I can. Age + MLS passing him by. They tried the old move him to full back thing. MLS teams are nuts to occupy midfield positions by run of the mill domestic players.