Herdman new head coach

[BCM]

10 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

You really can't say that without knowing why he was fired. The dumb decision was much more likely the one made to hire him in the first place. 

Which likewise you can't say without knowing the reasons he was fired.

It's circular.

Anyway, I was not opposed to Herdman per se (although I do not think he was qualified), but with the process. I still maintain by not advertising the CSA violated the law. But whatever, I'm giving Herdman a fair shake now and hope he turns out to be a mastermind and success on the pitch.

[dbailey62]

3 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Which likewise you can't say without knowing the reasons he was fired.

It's circular.

 

But I do know! 

[Bison44]

36 minutes ago, dbailey62 said:

But I do know! 

Come on, nobody at CSA reads this board, you can tell us what the heck happened!  We can all keep a secret.  

[ted]

Can we stop talking about Zambrano on this thread for Herdman? We have a thread for talking about the previous coach.

Thanks.

[Bison44]

21 minutes ago, ted said:

Can we stop talking about Zambrano on this thread for Herdman? We have a thread for talking about the previous coach.

Thanks.

Its ok, we are talking about Herdman on the Zambrano thread, it all evens out.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

But I do know! 

No actually, being a distinguished member of our soccer community someone made sure you had ONE version to ensure there'd be no public scrutiny of the CSA on this. And you bought it.

If you haven't gotten Octavio's opinion you are making false claims, and if you don't care to know it you are being deliberately a CSA shill. So it's just as easy to say you're not telling the truth and you in fact don't know. 

P's I know Im bullshitting just to make clear. Herdman could have silenced all this buzz by taking on a real challenge and showing his mettle. So far it's impossible to know how good a coach he might be. 

PSS and let me add, I am all in favour of him being as successful as possible. I do not see any major errors so far in his actual coaching, so that is good. I don't even mind him finding a place for the kids vs the minnows by playing Davies as a fullback, which is not his idea, Robbo already did it at Caps. I am willing to forgive the fundamental dishonesty of his hiring and the CSA's BS if we get results--in fact, since so many football successes take place on the back of corruption and disgusting behaviour, I will even waive all my moral benchmarks if we can qualify on results for Qatar, I really do not care how we do it. But I still think, privately, as a human, than Herdman is a spin doctor and that his move to take Octavio's job was unethical.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[Corazon]

22 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Very possible and others have mentioned here, perhaps his reason to want to move to the men was that the women may be in line for a downward trajectory while the men hold lots of promise. Maybe. 

I heard part of the reasoning was that Herdman was interested in making a switch to a men's programs and CSA did what they could to keep him on board.  I'm not sure how much truth is in that statement though.  Likely a combination of things contributed to his sudden switch.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Corazon

[ted]

17 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Its ok, we are talking about Herdman on the Zambrano thread, it all evens out.  

But I am ignoring the thread about a short-term, former coach. This thread is actually relevant in that it is talking about our ACTUAL coach.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Not to troll or criticise anything, but why did they hire a coach that never played or coached a professional men's game? I get that some tactics are similar to the women's game but the competition level is entirely different. I don't know any top soccer country that tried this experiment before, but I could be wrong.

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, ted said:

But I am ignoring the thread about a short-term, former coach. This thread is actually relevant in that it is talking about our ACTUAL coach.

Ted, I thought we established Herdmans thread was mainly about zambrano, and zambrano's thread was about herdman. ?  Sometimes you have to think outside the box so you can complain about the coach you hate, HEHEHE!!  

[Kent]

10 hours ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Not to troll or criticise anything, but why did they hire a coach that never played or coached a professional men's game? I get that some tactics are similar to the women's game but the competition level is entirely different. I don't know any top soccer country that tried this experiment before, but I could be wrong.

I don’t agree with your statement, but I liked your comment because you didn’t mention the USA at all. That’s a good first step to stop being ignored.

I think they hired him because they believe he can do the job. They have a lot of experience with him and obviously are impressed with what they have seen. I am not an expert on women’s soccer, but tactics-wise I don’t think there is a big difference between women’s soccer and men’s soccer. It’s not like it makes it harder to manage when the players are running faster and kicking harder.

For your last statement, I don’t know of any nations trying this switch either. I think as the women’s game improves it was just a matter of time for a women’s coach to get a job with a men’s team.

[LeoH037]

On 12/7/2018 at 9:04 PM, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Not to troll or criticise anything, but why did they hire a coach that never played or coached a professional men's game? I get that some tactics are similar to the women's game but the competition level is entirely different. I don't know any top soccer country that tried this experiment before, but I could be wrong.

Oh it's different alright, the CWNT is actually competitive... as for the CMNT, it remains to be seen. Ultimately an athlete is an athlete, and sex does not fall into the equation if said athletes are competing with other athletes on level terms. Ultimately soccer is soccer, and it's not just "some" tactics that are similar, its all of them

[BearcatSA]

I expect this team, barring an injury crisis, to be a force at next year's Gold Cup.  That is the first litmus test for all the members of the squad (coaches and players)

[red card]

Herdman interviewed on fan650. Says Canada's talent has always been 4-5 ranked in CONCACAF but obviously have underperformed. Likes Davies mind strength and character.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnets-starting-lineup/herdman-alphonso-davies-single-minded-pursuit-success/

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by red card

[Vince193]

1 minute ago, red card said:

Herdman interviewed on fan650. Says Canada's talent has always been 4-5 ranked in CONCACAF but obviously have underperformed. Likes Davies mind strength and character.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnets-starting-lineup/herdman-alphonso-davies-single-minded-pursuit-success/

 

I really dislike these interviews, we aren't 4-5, and won't be until we actually play games. 1 game a window isn't going to cut it. CR or Panama would give us a very difficult time especially since those teams have a lot of chemistry with each other. We have none since we played 4 games this year. Where's the January camp Herdman? The US is having one and will play Costa Rica as well! 

[Kent]

5 hours ago, Vince193 said:

I really dislike these interviews, we aren't 4-5, and won't be until we actually play games. 1 game a window isn't going to cut it. CR or Panama would give us a very difficult time especially since those teams have a lot of chemistry with each other. We have none since we played 4 games this year. Where's the January camp Herdman? The US is having one and will play Costa Rica as well! 

That’s not what he was saying. He was saying that on paper our national team roster is usually 4th or 5th best in CONCACAF. He was saying “ranked” as if it was fact, so it sounds like he has some metric that takes leagues of players (1st tier England, 2nd tier Norway, etc) and spits out a number for the team as a whole. He was NOT saying we are the 4th or 5th best team in CONCACAF.

What was more interesting/probably misleading was him talking about getting a result against French Guiana getting us to the hex. I imagine this is just a deliberately false statement to try to sell tickets like they did with the previous home game, but if there could be any shred of truth to it I suppose the implication would be that teams in League A will be the only ones with even a theoretical chance at qualification for the World Cup. I think I hope that isn’t the case, but I guess I’ll wait to see what the qualifying format is before I pass judgement.

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, Vince193 said:

I really dislike these interviews, we aren't 4-5, and won't be until we actually play games. 1 game a window isn't going to cut it. CR or Panama would give us a very difficult time especially since those teams have a lot of chemistry with each other. We have none since we played 4 games this year. Where's the January camp Herdman? The US is having one and will play Costa Rica as well! 

Just want to echo what @Kent is saying.

When he says 4th/5th ranked, he's specifically talking in the context of our talent and that is based specifically on how many "tier 1" players we have, which he defines as those in the "top 5 leagues of the world".

In response to a question that asks if and when we can consider ourselves as serious challengers for a WC spot, he cites Japan, Sweden and Iceland as examples of teams who now have a substantial amount of these "top tier" players, and says that having 7 (Iceland) or 11 (Sweden) or 13 (Japan) is the difference between not qualifying and having the ability to qualify and give a respectable account of ourselves.

Anyways, he goes on to mention that currently we have a single player in this category (Hoilett) and soon to have two players (Hoilett+Davies). He follows this by mentioning Ballou, Millar and ZBG as examples of our potential, since each could theoretically realize their potential by progressing to their respective 1st teams.

Currently though, with only one top level player, we are behind Mexico, USA and CR, though we are ahead of both Honduras and Panama - hence the whole 4th ranked in concacaf thing.

And I wouldn't take any of it too seriously as it is just a general metric with clear and obvious flaws. For example, last year Arfield would have made it 2 top tier players for Canada, but has anything changed because he swapped Burnley for Rangers? He is still the same player.

Hutchinson despite playing in what Herdman would call a second tier league could be considered a top tier player because he could play in a top 5 league but has chosen not to. Etc.

All in all, I like these interviews with Herdman. It's nice to hear what our manager has to say, no matter who our manager is.

And yeah, I think we all want a Jan camp btw. You won't find any differing opinions on that around here, nor will our complaining make it happen at this stage of the game, so not really an interesting talking point for me personally. We are all in agreement it should be happening. That I am sure of.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Obinna

[BrennanFan]

I'm paraphrasing, but Herdman said:

- We need a point against French Guiana to get into Group A which is critical for our future to get into the Hex

- Getting tickets for French Guiana will enable fans to say 'I saw the CMNT beat French Guiana which put them into Nations League Group A which got them into the Hex'

Is Herdman telling us something new here?  Perhaps maintaining our Group A status in the CNL this fall will give us direct entry to the Hex?

 

[dyslexic nam]

I am no Herdman fanboy, but I think we should all recognize that any media coverage of our national soccer program is a good thing.  For years we all felt shunned by media.  Now we are getting some, and we don't like it because Herdman uses too much hair product or something.  Seems odd.

I get that he should be asked questions about his tactics.  And that a good soccer media would ask hard questions about the circumstances of his hiring.  I fully agree with both of these ideas.  But we are getting media coverage at a time when have a team capable of getting national support for the first time in a long time. Sure he probably saw the rise of Davies and others as a personal opportunity, but I am quite sure that Herdman will be the guy for at least the next WCQ cycle, and probably longer.   Whether people would prefer OZ or not at this point, it is kind of moot. 

 

[Zem]

35 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Is Herdman telling us something new here?  Perhaps maintaining our Group A status in the CNL this fall will give us direct entry to the Hex?

The top six teams qualify for League A, hence the "Hex"; it has nothing directly to do with WCQs. There almost certainly isn't going to be a Hex in WCQ anymore.

[Obinna]

I took it that League A teams may have some sort of advantage for WCQ seeding. Much like in past editions, where the top 6 teams in FIFA rankings for concacaf automatically qualified for the HEX.

Except the HEX is likely a thing of the past.

Since we don't know what will replace it yet, Herdman perhaps is just using the phrase "HEX" as a placeholder for whatever advanced stage League A teams would enter for qualifying.

That's my best guess.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Obinna

[Marc]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:53 PM, Corazon said:

I heard part of the reasoning was that Herdman was interested in making a switch to a men's programs

This makes sense.

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:53 PM, Corazon said:

and CSA did what they could to keep him on board. 

This does not.  Because he's no longer on board.  Whether he's coaching the UK women's team or the Canadian men's team, the end result is the same - they lost him from the women's program.  It's a loss either way.  If they had always wanted to hire him for the men's team, they would have when they hired Zambrano.

Herdman may end up being a failure but the whole conspiracy against Zambrano is simply not logical. Obviously Zambrano didn't fit, regardless of whether that was his fault or the CSA's.

 

[The Ref]

I think the CSA did a disservice to him.  If he fails with the men, few will want him then.  He could have left in glory after the women on to coach another up and coming women team.

 

[Obinna]

24 minutes ago, The Ref said:

I think the CSA did a disservice to him.  If he fails with the men, few will want him then.  He could have left in glory after the women on to coach another up and coming women team.

 

Before he was given the job of coaching our men's team, there was talk of him potentially taking over the England WNT job, though I don't know if this was genuine interest or not.

It could have been used as leverage for the CanMNT job, but considering his success with the women of New Zealand and Canada, it wouldn't be surprising if the English interest was genuine.

Either way, I don't see it as the CSA doing Herdman a disservice. He didn't have to take this challenge. If he flames out, well that would be the risk he took, wouldn't it? It's hard for me to see it as the CSA doing him a disservice or setting him up to fail.

[dyslexic nam]

45 minutes ago, The Ref said:

I think the CSA did a disservice to him.  If he fails with the men, few will want him then.  He could have left in glory after the women on to coach another up and coming women team.

 

I am pretty sure no one forced him to take the job.  He is a big boy - he can make his own decisions and live with the consequences.