Herdman new head coach

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Your criticism of John Herdman is that he doesn't have confidence in himself??

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

[dyslexic nam]

If he ever needs to rediscover his humility, he could just come on here and read this thread.  Should be enough to temper his confidence.

[Grizzly]

25 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I do get that vibe, but the players also seem genuine in their approval of him thus far, so perhaps it's just my prebuilt negative bias because I was initially disapproving on the basis he has no experience (relatively - don't want to open the CanWNT thing) and I held that against him accordingly (still struggling to let it go).

If the players like him, maybe he is actually decent. Players can smell out a bullshit coach at any level of soccer.

Capping players is never a negative btw.

The players have liked every coach we have had except for a group of them that didn't like Ossieck (the 2nd best coach in our history after Waiters) and Mitchell (who I think might have been a good coach if he had the support of the players, there were some games we played very well under him). The only one who wasn't liked at the same point of his mandate as Herdman is right now was Mitchell because the players wanted Hart to be hired. The player interviews are pretty standard and of course they are positive, they want to continue to get selected. I wouldn't put much stock in what the players say, if you want their honest opinion you probably will need to wait until they have retired and have nothing to lose from stating it and even if they do like him, they have liked all of our coaches other than the two I mentioned and several of those were not very good coaches. 

[Bison44]

Werent the players saying the same positive stuff about Zambrano and we all found out later it was a badly kept secret he was on his way out the door?  

[Obinna]

47 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

The players have liked every coach we have had except for a group of them that didn't like Ossieck (the 2nd best coach in our history after Waiters) and Mitchell (who I think might have been a good coach if he had the support of the players, there were some games we played very well under him). The only one who wasn't liked at the same point of his mandate as Herdman is right now was Mitchell because the players wanted Hart to be hired. The player interviews are pretty standard and of course they are positive, they want to continue to get selected. I wouldn't put much stock in what the players say, if you want their honest opinion you probably will need to wait until they have retired and have nothing to lose from stating it and even if they do like him, they have liked all of our coaches other than the two I mentioned and several of those were not very good coaches. 

That is a very good point. 

I am taking the players at face value, even though we have plenty of examples of players making their true feelings known after retirement. 

[Vince193]

We'll see what Herdman is made up come the Gold Cup.

[Grizzly]

26 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Werent the players saying the same positive stuff about Zambrano and we all found out later it was a badly kept secret he was on his way out the door?  

Yes although in his case I haven't heard any suggestion that he was removed because the players were unhappy with him. It seems to have been the CSA that was unhappy with him. The rumours say he overspent and did not organize the overall program the way they wanted. Other opposing rumours have said that he wanted to reorganize things and stepped on some feet in doing so. It seems poor that we do not have any confirmation about the reason for his firing. I am also bothered by how they hired Herdman with no competition for the spot. It seems like the CSA's usual old boys network of hiring their friends on steriods, ie. not even the appearance of a competition or a fair hiring process.

[The Ref]

The CSA has a big rug and Herdman sells smoke.

[SpecialK]

I’m  curious how much rope does Herdman have? Does he get fired if the gold cup is a  disaster ? 

Like I said before I’m ok with the firing of Oz if it was needed but the CSA should have came out and said why. Also it’s  complete bullshit that  A real competitive search didn’t take place, cuz there are some pretty good options out there.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by SpecialK

[dyslexic nam]

I think some people are correct in the idea that Herdman will be given a lot of leeway.  The fact remains that he had a lot of success with the women (albeit benefiting from the best female soccer player our country has known) and seems to be taking the kind of systems approach to the CMNT that the CSA is looking for.  The reality is that we don't have the money to hire a large human resource infrastructure, so the more a single person can initiate systems thinking, the better.  Hell, the CSA is probably firmly supportive of the media bromance that some on here dislike.

All of this is independent of his actual tactical coaching ability, but I think on paper Herdman brings enough value (at least from the CSA's organizational perspective) that one poor tournament won't be the end of him. 

Now, qualification for 2022 may be a different story.  If that process goes poorly, the CSA may question whether or not Herdman is the guy they want at the helm when the world is watching in 2026.  But unless things turn catastrophic, I don't see Herdman going anywhere for at least a few years.

[dbailey62]

 For '22, progressing to the Hex is a must. It is the absolute minimum of acceptability. Even performing badly in the Hex should mean dismissal.  

We should have made the Hex in the last two cycles with only a single goal at the right time making that happen! 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, dbailey62 said:

 For '22, progressing to the Hex is a must. It is the absolute minimum of acceptability. Even performing badly in the Hex should mean dismissal.  

We should have made the Hex in the last two cycles with only a single goal at the right time making that happen! 

If we don't make the HEX it will be a massive failure. 

Wait, will there be a HEX?

[dbailey62]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

If we don't make the HEX it will be a massive failure. 

Wait, will there be a HEX?

Good question! Either way, any coach has to take us to Qatar or just miss out by a whisker! 

I don't think the next Gold Cup will be too much of a factor unless we are badly embarrassed. 

[The Beaver]

While it is certainly far too early to make a definitive assessment of Herdman, I must say that I find it alarming that he continues to play Davies at left back.  I can see his reasoning, but I am not sure he's got this right.  IF Herdman fully intends to use Davies in the midfield, out wide, then when will he start to do so? You'd think that IF he was going in that direction he would have used these first three games as an opportunity to blood someone else at left back. I mean, these past few game seem a perfect opportunity to figure out your back line, no?  Is Herdman going to wait until the Gold Cup to figure out who can play left back?  

It is early days, but there have been a few on field choices that make me wonder if Herdman is truly as strategic and as prepared as he'd like us to believe.  We all know his strengths; but the big question is about what he can make happen on the field. It is the one place where most of us doubt his experience and chops.  (Not sure we'd have the same doubt about MDS, for instance.)

Of course, Davies just might become a brilliant leftback at Bayern, and then all my concerns will be assuaged. Perhaps.

[SpecialK]

 I bet your all right, the CSA will swipe a bad gold cup  performance under the rug. But I think the gold cup should be the test. With the talent we have  there should be no excuses. Also  gambling at the World Cup  qualifier is not acceptable. If Herdman can’t  deliver at the gold cup he should be replaced. 

Also im sorry to say  His women’s record is good but not great. He won two  bronze medals,  never made it to the gold medal games.  He’s never made it to the finals of the World Cup, his best showing was the  quarterfinals. He’s never beaten the USA. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by SpecialK

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

 I bet your all right, the CSA will swipe a bad gold cup  performance under the rug. But I think the gold cup should be the test. With the talent we have  there should be no excuses. Also  gambling at the World Cup  qualifier is not acceptable. If Herdman can’t  deliver at the gold cup he should be replaced. 

Also im sorry to say  His women’s record is good but not great. He won two  bronze medals,  never made it to the gold medal games.  He’s never made it to the finals of the World Cup, his best showing was the  quarterfinals. He’s never beaten the USA. 

I think you are off base on this one.  He won two bronze medals.  With Canada.  In soccer.  

Our men's team hasn't made the world cup on over 3 decades, and you want to criticize Herdman's permanence with the women because he hasn't made the finals (in large part due to a BS penalty caused by Wambitch counting in the refs ear leading to the most asinine penalty ever).   Sorry, but to me that counts as "a lot of success" as I originally claimed.

 

[Zem]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Wait, will there be a HEX?

Almost certainly not. Montagliani's plan is to modernize WCQs to have fewer rounds and involve more teams for longer as has been done in other confederations. So, one way or another, the final round is likely going to be a much larger group stage.

[SpecialK]

31 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think you are off base on this one.  He won two bronze medals.  With Canada.  In soccer.  

Our men's team hasn't made the world cup on over 3 decades, and you want to criticize Herdman's permanence with the women because he hasn't made the finals (in large part due to a BS penalty caused by Wambitch counting in the refs ear leading to the most asinine penalty ever).   Sorry, but to me that counts as "a lot of success" as I originally claimed.

 

Canada’s womens team has always been strong ! Even before John Herdman got there! Even finishing 4th in the World Cup. They have always had talent players and professional coaches. On the Canada men’s side, GONG show. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by SpecialK

[RS]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

Canada’s womens team has always been strong ! Even before John Herdman got there! Even finishing 4th in the World Cup. They have always had talent players and professional coaches. On the Canada men’s side, GONG show. 

How did they do in the World Cup immediately prior to Herdman's hiring?

[SpecialK]

1 hour ago, RS said:

How did they do in the World Cup immediately prior to Herdman's hiring?

[RS]

4 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

0 wins, 0 draws, 3 losses with 1 goal scored and 7 goals allowed.

Looks like the women were doing just fine before Herdman got there.

[SpecialK]

11 minutes ago, RS said:

0 wins, 0 draws, 3 losses with 1 goal scored and 7 goals allowed.

Looks like the women were doing just fine before Herdman got there.

Just because they had bad World Cup just before Herdman got there, doesn’t mean they weren’t a strong team. They were 4th in 2003 and 9th after that. Also they were doing well in other tourney. Also it doesn’t change the fact that Herdman never won the gold or silver and never got pasted the quarters. Also he was too chicken shit to  fulfill What he said he was going to do, beat the Americans and become #1 in the world and guide Canada in the next World Cup. Too me that’s a punk move. Make all these statements. Fail against the USA and put a gun too the CSA and say I’m the saviour of the men’s program 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, RS said:

Your criticism of John Herdman is that he doesn't have confidence in himself??

If he did he'd have tested his mettle earlier. We had the chance to play warm-up friendlies vs. WC teams. We have missed FIFA dates. He started in neutral territory vs. his home country. We have not been properly tested, he has spent a year doing what clubs do at the start of pre-season training. So that does not look like confidence to me, and to many others. 

For me, what we have seen are survival tactics so far, along with him bringing in the youth. I think it just may work, and maybe there is even a rationale when it comes to FIFA ranking, I do not know (anyone on that?).

Other thing is that he has a certain tendency to overspeak and hype, which we should not confuse with confidence.

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If he did he'd have tested his mettle earlier. We had the chance to play warm-up friendlies vs. WC teams. We have missed FIFA dates. He started in neutral territory vs. his home country. We have not been properly tested, he has spent a year doing what clubs do at the start of pre-season training. So that does not look like confidence to me, and to many others. 

For me, what we have seen are survival tactics so far, along with him bringing in the youth. I think it just may work, and maybe there is even a rationale when it comes to FIFA ranking, I do not know (anyone on that?).

Other thing is that he has a certain tendency to overspeak and hype, which we should not confuse with confidence.

Herdman saw the women’s team becoming weaker and the men’s team with amazing  potential. With superstars like Davies and really good players like  Arfield and others and how weak CONCACAF is, he’s got a great chance to look good ! Watch if they make it to the World Cup in 2022 but really  struggle, everyone is still gonna say Herdman did a great job, he’s the man !!! He got us the World Cup.  Expectations were that low !  Which is sad ! Because we have a good group of players . 

I hate that a punk like Herdman gets the job because he  achieved what was expected with a very very group of players but a real manager like john van't schip wanted the job/interested in it and didn’t even get a call! 

[dyslexic nam]

21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman saw the women’s team becoming weaker and the men’s team with amazing  potential. With superstars like Davies and really good players like  Arfield and others and how weak CONCACAF is, he’s got a great chance to look good ! Watch if they make it to the World Cup in 2022 but really  struggle, everyone is still gonna say Herdman did a great job, he’s the man !!! He got us the World Cup.  Expectations were that low !  Which is sad ! Because we have a good group of players . 

I hate that a punk like Herdman gets the job because he  achieved what was expected with a very very group of players but a real manager like john van't schip wanted the job/interested in it and didn’t even get a call! 

Jesus man.  If Herdman gets us to the World Cup in 2022, you are damn right people will be saying he did a good job.  We haven't been there in over 30'years, and even that was assisted by Me I on getting an auto spot.  Yes, we have a talented group of players, but if you plan to be critical of Herdman if he makes the World Cup but doesn't go deep in the tourney, I would suggest that he is not the one with the issue.  

We haven't even made the hex in a number of cycles.  Making it to the  2022 WC would be a massive success.  Full stop.