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Herdman new head coach


matty

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

To me, tony robbins and Herdman just seem like carnival barkers, using buzz words/catch phrases that dont really mean anything and seem much more interested in promoting themselves and their image.  Plenty of people buy into what they have to say, not me... although I am no expert on tony robbins.  

Got it. Thank you.

I believe buzz words/catch phrases don't really mean anything if you don't buy into them. And of course, if you buy into them, they do actually have meaning.

Fortunately, it seems that our players have bought in.

As for the self-promotion, I don't have any issue with it right now. If the results go sideways, that may be another thing.

Right now though, I have little to complain about.

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I'd feel a lot better if Herdman was actively pushing the CSA for more games/camps.

I mean, what kind of NT coach isn't interested in playing games or at least getting the squad together during international windows? Especially with so many changes/new options for the National team with regards to the player pool?

Just comes across as a CSA hack, getting OZ fired despite positive results and actually playing games. 

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3 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

I'd feel a lot better if Herdman was actively pushing the CSA for more games/camps.

I mean, what kind of NT coach isn't interested in playing games or at least getting the squad together during international windows? Especially with so many changes/new options for the National team with regards to the player pool?

Just comes across as a CSA hack, getting OZ fired despite positive results and actually playing games. 

I believe a lot falls on the CSA.  Oz pushed hard for additional friendlies and for a change in recruiting Canadian talent and I don't think those changes were on the CSA agenda.  I imagine Herdman doing and saying he has to more than anything.  As a Head Coach, you would imagine that he is just itching to see the current crop of players playing more together.

Apparently not what "Herdman" believes Canada needs right now according to his interview last year.

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In the long run I dont really care.  If he can get results we'll all be happy.  Sports is full of douchey coaches that are successful.  Holger wasnt all that popular either.  And I've respected some of our former coaches that didnt have success.   Too bad we werent talking about the last camp poutine (that we skipped) instead of herdmans latest PR speech.  Oh and how did the excel 18-23 best with best camp go last week??  Or was it cancelled too?  

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  • 3 weeks later...

Seems the players are really buying into what JH is selling. Whether you liked the hiring or not you have to be happy to hear this kind of stuff.

“We really have that feel that everyone in the locker room has that same feeling, same ambition, same purpose that we can really do something special here. The goal is to go pretty far in the Gold Cup and actually win it.”

As to what it is that has sprung this change, there’s no single answer. But Teibert has no doubt that the appointment of John Herdman as Canadian national team head coach last January has a lot to do with it, as has the number of fresh faces he has brought into the set up during his tenure so far.

“He plays a big part in it for sure,” Teibert said of Herdman. “It could be an accumulation of both of those things. Honestly, the new players help but I think John has done a great job putting this team together with the three different group – the veterans, the in-betweeners, and the young guys. He’s established this new culture and this new way. A code of conduct, a code of the shirt, that when you come in you feel a real sense of pride playing for your country.”

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/03/22/canadian-national-team-marvel-complete-change-culture-under-herdman

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On 3/4/2019 at 1:32 PM, Kadenge said:

 

I agree that JH may have been better suited as a  GM vs. coach, but  I hope for the sake of the CMNT, players and all of us fans, that he is super successful, otherwise we will have missed a glorious opportunity with our "golden generation" emerging. It is difficult to judge our performance against weak opposition, but I am hoping that he uses the FG game to roll out a traditional line up, with players playing in their proper position and a meaningful formation etc. The time for showcasing our many attacking talents has to take second place to setting up the team properly for the GC. Wish him luck guys!

 

This, like him or not we need him to succeed beyond expectations. I was amongst those sceptical when I heard that he had been hired.

Except for the lack of games, he hasn't had any major setbacks and many positives.    I'm wondering if the lack of games are to have more money for the intense period starting pre-Gold Cup through to WCQ for 2022.

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41 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Seems the players are really buying into what JH is selling. Whether you liked the hiring or not you have to be happy to hear this kind of stuff.

“We really have that feel that everyone in the locker room has that same feeling, same ambition, same purpose that we can really do something special here. The goal is to go pretty far in the Gold Cup and actually win it.”

Reminds me of an old saying, "everyones your friend when things are going good".  We have hardly played and its been against minnows.  I would hardly think Tiebert would say anything that wasnt positive when its his picture on the promo ads for the game in his stomping grounds.  Dont get me wrong, I'm excited too, lots of young talent that might take us a long way to qualifying for 2022.  But the program was on an uptick before Herdman showed up and he didnt have anything to do with Davies, David, Millar etc.  If all this culture change doesnt translate into results against old foes, then its all for nothing.  And unfortunately, we wont know if things really have changed much until the GC, 1.5 years into Herdmans tenure.  

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RTs comments are influenced because his face is in the ads and the game is in Vancouver? I thought he was being genuine but I guess the detractors will always find way to cut down the positives.

As for the addition of new players he specifically says that’s part of the reason for excitement. And you can credit JH for Tabla and Estaquio.

This isn’t the only time we’ve heard the buy in from players, there’s been enthusiastic and positive comments about a changes in culture, direction and communication - all things that have been lacking under other coaches.

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9 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

As for the addition of new players he specifically says that’s part of the reason for excitement. And you can credit JH for Tabla and Estaquio.

I’m not a Herdman fan and I personally believe there are better choices out there right. 

But you are right buzz,  - herdman deserves credit for Ballou and Eustáquio

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15 minutes ago, aloyol said:

The only way we will be able to appreciate this so called change of culture is when we start getting results in meaningful games against tough opponents. For the moment it's just talk but that's pretty much the only thing we ve had for more than a year now with so few games.

 

Very true. All of this goes out the window after a bad GC or a poor showing in the Nations League. 

What is the minimum acceptable showing at the GC? For me the QF is the absolute minimum. Failure to get out of the group would be an absolute disaster. SF is the realistic minimum, depending on which group we end up in I expect us to be able to get out the group and win one knock out game.

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5 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Very true. All of this goes out the window after a bad GC or a poor showing in the Nations League. 

What is the minimum acceptable showing at the GC? For me the QF is the absolute minimum. Failure to get out of the group would be an absolute disaster. SF is the realistic minimum, depending on which group we end up in I expect us to be able to get out the group and win one knock out game.

Agree with your expectations!

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1 minute ago, aloyol said:

Agree with your expectations!

I think the realistic high would be either a final loss to Mexico or if they somehow don’t make it and we do, a win!

That would require us to land on the US side of the bracket and beat them in the SF which I think is totally doable.

Edited by BuzzAndSting
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Well just think of the optimism we had after the last gold cup, Davies was the break out star.  Arfield and Hoilet had recently been brought into the fold.  Zambrano talked Cavallini back onto the team. MA Kaye came out of damn near nowhere.  Players were happily talking about playing attractive attacking football after years of Floroball. And just a few months later we find out it was a sham, a dumpster fire from the begining,  a totally botched hire and things had to be changed ASAP (so we are told).  

So forgive me if I dont get too excited about what the players are saying in interviews 20 feet from the headcoach. Especially before they have had any tough competition.  If they really are buying into it, and the culture is different... we know the talent is better than last time, then we should go further...the semis.  Quarters would only equal the complete mess of Zambrano (who had to be sacked ASAP), and Herdman now has more weapons.... David, Millar, Tabla, Kaye (much improved) etc.  

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Interesting JH quote from this interview:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/john-herdman-reflects-challenges-1st-year-charge-canadian-mens-team/

But we’ve been very fragmented on all levels, and it’s almost as though people want to see us fail. As an example, you go into our Nations League qualifier versus Dominica in Toronto [last year], and local clubs [in Ontario] are playing friendlies against Dominica to help them prepare for Canada! In no other country in the world would that be allowed or would that happen, but it happened in Canada. Why? In many ways, that’s football treason. So, you get a sense we have work to do and it’s still fragile to convince people and get them onboard.

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3 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Interesting JH quote from this interview:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/john-herdman-reflects-challenges-1st-year-charge-canadian-mens-team/

But we’ve been very fragmented on all levels, and it’s almost as though people want to see us fail. As an example, you go into our Nations League qualifier versus Dominica in Toronto [last year], and local clubs [in Ontario] are playing friendlies against Dominica to help them prepare for Canada! In no other country in the world would that be allowed or would that happen, but it happened in Canada. Why? In many ways, that’s football treason. So, you get a sense we have work to do and it’s still fragile to convince people and get them onboard.

I m not sure it s a perfect analogy but I remember some of our youth NT playing friendlies against Mexican youth clubs prior to a Concacaf qualifying tournament.

Not sure why JH feels he needs to bring this issue. We re talking about Dominica, not Panama or Honduras.

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It's warranted given how many youth clubs are run as personal fiefdoms rather than for elite player development and national team success. Lots of complaining about infringing on their turf and we know better than the CSA mentality. Basically, a bunch of people with a lack of self awareness.

Others have also previously complained about youth clubs playing matches when either the national men or women's teams are playing in their backyard. 

Edited by red card
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3 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Interesting JH quote from this interview:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/john-herdman-reflects-challenges-1st-year-charge-canadian-mens-team/

But we’ve been very fragmented on all levels, and it’s almost as though people want to see us fail. As an example, you go into our Nations League qualifier versus Dominica in Toronto [last year], and local clubs [in Ontario] are playing friendlies against Dominica to help them prepare for Canada! In no other country in the world would that be allowed or would that happen, but it happened in Canada. Why? In many ways, that’s football treason. So, you get a sense we have work to do and it’s still fragile to convince people and get them onboard.

 

8 minutes ago, aloyol said:

I m not sure it s a perfect analogy but I remember some of our youth NT playing friendlies against Mexican youth clubs prior to a Concacaf qualifying tournament.

Not sure why JH feels he needs to bring this issue. We re talking about Dominica, not Panama or Honduras.

I remember we played a friendly against a US club team in California in preparation for something though I do not remember if we were playing the US afterwards. I don't think this practice is as rare as Herdman is suggesting though. I have vague remembrances of things like this being done in Europe when I was living there. Games like this can often benefit the club side as well. 

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10 minutes ago, red card said:

It's warranted given how many youth clubs are run as personal fiefdoms rather than for elite player development and national team success. Lots of... we know better than the CSA mentality. Basically, a bunch of people with a lack of self awareness.

Others have also previously complained about youth clubs playing matches when either the national men or women's teams are playing in their backyard. 

Sounds vaguely familiar.

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8 minutes ago, red card said:

 

Others have also previously complained about youth clubs playing matches when either the national men or women's teams are playing in their backyard. 

It s one thing to play games at the same time a NT is playing but it’s another to play a friendly against a NT. It benefits both the club and the NT and it’s a unique experience for the players. 

Of course, things would be different if we were talking about stronger teams but I doubt CR or Honduras would be looking at this kind of friendlies prior to playing Canada.

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I may be missing something here, but what clubs played Dominica? I don't think TFC or TFC II played them or the Fury either. We talking about a PDL or L1O side?

If i were Herdman i'd be more worried about the attitude towards the NT's of some of the Provincial staff coaches. ie. touting the benefits of other "better" nations over our own. Same goes for the MLS clubs advising kids to pursue other avenues (Caps-Bustos/Verhoeven, TFC-Akinola).

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Last month, you boldly proclaimed that Canada would qualify for the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar, and would be competitive in the 2026 World Cup that Canada will co-host with Mexico and the United States. I’m not sure many of your predecessors would have done that. Why did you make that proclamation?

I think with some who came before me, it was more about saving their jobs or looking after their role within the team. 

I really hate how Herdman deals with other people. He seems like a classless, self-promoting asshole while at the same time he is claiming others are self-promoting assholes. Whatever the criticisms we could make of his immediate predecessors Hart, Floro and Zambrano I saw no evidence to back up Herdman's claims here. In fact, the only one I can see who clearly seems to be a self serving ambitious guy looking after their own job prospects is Herdman himself. Zambrano since his firing has been total class, not saying a bad word about Herdman or the CSA and often tweeting positive things about the national team and Canada. Herdman for his part has a dagger out for everyone and even his comments about Davies disappointment seem to be embarrassing for Davies while serving Herdman's self-promotion. Most of this interview consists of him saying he is the saviour who is fixing our soccer culture (his favourite buzzword) yet it seems like Zambrano was the one who got fired largely for trying to do that. From what I can see, Herdman is a return to the old boys network way of doing things in the bad old days of the CSA.

When Herdman talks of team what he really means is Me, Me, Me. We are getting better players and I will even give him credit for recruiting Tabla and Eustaquio but I think in a couple of years when we have played more games Herdman's house of cards is going to collapse and there is going to be a lot of strife and conflict within the team. We may have some success with the better talent and maybe he is a tactical genius (though I have seen no evidence of that so far) but a team needs a leader not a self-promoting megalomaniac con man. A shockingly bad hire even for the CSA.

 

Edited by Grizzly
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