Herdman new head coach

[BCM]

21 hours ago, Bison44 said:

A lot of people have said the same thing.  Sandor said at the time it was the worst kept secret in canadian soccer.  So almost a year later why havnt many details actually come out??  

The media were a joke at the time, and continue to be - "worst kept secret" that no one but insiders knew or know about...seems like a pretty damn good secret to me.

[The Ref]

On 12/4/2018 at 11:01 PM, Bison44 said:

A lot of people have said the same thing.  Sandor said at the time it was the worst kept secret in canadian soccer.  So almost a year later why havnt many details actually come out??  

Secret or not it was a dumb decision by Reed compounded by then hiring the preacher.

[dbailey62]

4 hours ago, The Ref said:

Secret or not it was a dumb decision by Reed compounded by then hiring the preacher.

You really can't say that without knowing why he was fired. The dumb decision was much more likely the one made to hire him in the first place. 

[Grizzly]

1 hour ago, dbailey62 said:

You really can't say that without knowing why he was fired. The dumb decision was much more likely the one made to hire him in the first place. 

This response does not make sense even if you qualify it by using likely. If The Ref can not say his hiring was poor without knowing why he was fired then how can you claim that his hiring was a bad decision? Your statement is just as speculative as The Ref's.

I think a major problem is that we do not know why he was fired other than a some rumours that were planted in the press which may be true or may just be planted to try and justify the decision which was made for other reasons. The later is what I suspect as it is almost a year since the coaching change and no details or confirmation of the rumours about Zambrano have leaked out. I suspect Herdman was super well connected within the CSA and mesmerized some of the people there with his spiel and they needed to find a reason to get rid of Zambrano and hire Herdman without opening the job to competition. A classic CSA backroom old boys network hire. But yes this is also speculation because the CSA has acted totally unprofessional in this regard and hasn't released any information or explained the decision in a press conference. Even today I am struck by the difference between the Impact announcement of hiring a new director of soccer operations with Joey having to go before the press and answer a lot of questions even though it is a private business while the CSA which receives public funding has not answered the many questions about the firing of Zambrano and hiring Herdman without competition. This should be a problem for anyone regardless of what their opinion is on Zambrano/Herdman.

After a ray of light of the CSA being run properly under Mont Pete, I am getting the impression that we are back to the dark days of the CSA of old. 

[dbailey62]

25 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

This response does not make sense even if you qualify it by using likely. If The Ref can not say his hiring was poor without knowing why he was fired then how can you claim that his hiring was a bad decision? Your statement is just as speculative as The Ref's.

I think a major problem is that we do not know why he was fired other than a some rumours that were planted in the press which may be true or may just be planted to try and justify the decision which was made for other reasons. The later is what I suspect as it is almost a year since the coaching change and no details or confirmation of the rumours about Zambrano have leaked out. I suspect Herdman was super well connected within the CSA and mesmerized some of the people there with his spiel and they needed to find a reason to get rid of Zambrano and hire Herdman without opening the job to competition. A classic CSA backroom old boys network hire. But yes this is also speculation because the CSA has acted totally unprofessional in this regard and hasn't released any information or explained the decision in a press conference. Even today I am struck by the difference between the Impact announcement of hiring a new director of soccer operations with Joey having to go before the press and answer a lot of questions even though it is a private business while the CSA which receives public funding has not answered the many questions about the firing of Zambrano and hiring Herdman without competition. This should be a problem for anyone regardless of what their opinion is on Zambrano/Herdman.

After a ray of light of the CSA being run properly under Mont Pete, I am getting the impression that we are back to the dark days of the CSA of old. 

I'm not speculating! I've heard more than enough from multiple sources but I'm not at liberty to disclose! He was a disastrous hire leaving the CSA in a no win position! His firing was inevitable. 

Ref is saying his firing was a mistake although he has no idea of why he might have been fired.

Now that makes no sense!

Edit: I'll just add that I was just as disconcerted by the firing/hiring as anybody else and I am just as skeptical as anybody else. I'm not a blind faith supporter of Herdman but as this is the situation we are in, I'm going to let him succeed or fail on his own merits and record. For the sake of Canada, I just hope that he succeeds even if he does so in spite of himself. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by dbailey62
additional text added

[Bison44]

This is just odd.  Everyone seems to know what went on but no one can say.  He was a disaster,  he shouldnt have been hired etc but no one can come clean and say why.  What could he have done in a few months that caused such dismay...the onfield product didnt look like a disaster.  Sandors article at the time suggest he had several job reviews.  I wonder if Herdman has had several job reviews already?

 

[The Ref]

I remember once interviewing Kevin Pipe if he was going to use a Management Consulting Firm to select a new coach for Canada and he said using such a Firm was unnecessary.  It seems to me that the CSA has a serious problem in selecting coaches.  So many coaches have come and gone without us never making much progress.  Holger Osieck accomplished some progress, but he himself told me during a lunch together that we didn't have players with enough skill.  Moving forward to Floro and then Zambrano and again weird decisions by the "experts" in the CSA.  I liked Zambrano, but he was short lived.  And now Herdman to coach the men, another weird decision.  What am I to think?

[aloyol]

1 minute ago, The Ref said:

 What am I to think? 

You are supposed to be celebrating the fantastic string of results we had in the last 12 months. Perfect record at home, away and at neutral sites, no goal allowed at home, away and at neutral sites, exciting team play against USVI, one goal away from a home record, a shutout win in Basseterre, better known as the "San Pedro Sula of the Caribbean".

 

 

 

[dbailey62]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

I remember once interviewing Kevin Pipe if he was going to use a Management Consulting Firm to select a new coach for Canada and he said using such a Firm was unnecessary.  It seems to me that the CSA has a serious problem in selecting coaches.  So many coaches have come and gone without us never making much progress.  Holger Osieck accomplished some progress, but he himself told me during a lunch together that we didn't have players with enough skill.  Moving forward to Floro and then Zambrano and again weird decisions by the "experts" in the CSA.  I liked Zambrano, but he was short lived.  And now Herdman to coach the men, another weird decision.  What am I to think?

You could think "Wow, Zambrano must have really messed up behind the scenes to be ditched so soon!" and you'd be right.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by dbailey62

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, dbailey62 said:

You could think "Wow, Zambrano must have really messed up behind the scenes to be ditched so soon!" and you'd be right.

 

 

Perhaps what happened was that Zambrano messed up and at the same time Herdman was interested in leaving the CSA for his native England, so the CSA killed two birds with one stone by giving Herdman Zambrano's job.

What do you think?

[dbailey62]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps what happened was that Zambrano messed up and at the same time Herdman was interested in leaving the CSA for his native England, so the CSA killed two birds with one stone by giving Herdman Zambrano's job.

What do you think?

Very possible and others have mentioned here, perhaps his reason to want to move to the men was that the women may be in line for a downward trajectory while the men hold lots of promise. Maybe. 

[Grizzly]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps what happened was that Zambrano messed up and at the same time Herdman was interested in leaving the CSA for his native England, so the CSA killed two birds with one stone by giving Herdman Zambrano's job.

What do you think?

Even if this is true I find this unacceptable. I see little in Herdman's CV to suggest he was a top candidate for the men's team and that we should cater to him and hire him without a proper competition for the post especially at a time where we had no major tournament right away. If Zambrano did indeed do something that merited firing then open a search process and allow Herdman to apply like anyone else and hire the best candidate. That is how professionally run federations do things.

[dbailey62]

Just now, Grizzly said:

Even if this is true I find this unacceptable. I see little in Herdman's CV to suggest he was a top candidate for the men's team and that we should cater to him and hire him without a proper competition for the post especially at a time where we had no major tournament right away. If Zambrano did indeed do something that merited firing then open a search process and allow Herdman to apply like anyone else and hire the best candidate. That is how professionally run federations do things.

Can't argue with that. We're all just trying to make some sense of it.

 

[Oranje]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps what happened was that Zambrano messed up and at the same time Herdman was interested in leaving the CSA for his native England, so the CSA killed two birds with one stone by giving Herdman Zambrano's job.

What do you think?

I think you mean "Feed 2 birds with 1 scone", no?

[Unnamed Trialist]

Since @dbailey62 and others are not going to tell us why they think he was fired, we might as well assume equally grounded things.

Like because he was a Latino and the Anglo old boys network that is now in charge at the CSA could not deal with him, as is: it was a cultural question. Anyways, that is what I understand to be the case, but of course, I am in no position to disclose why I know this. You are just going to have to believe me, the way those throwing dirt at Zambrano want us to believe them with no ground at all. 

In the end, Zambrano had a modest but real career before Canada and is having one after, where every week he takes out his team and they fight for a win. While Herdman and the CSA are fiddling. 

Another thing to Octavio's credit: he originally said he'd do a press conference, but decided not to. But he did agree with tweets about what was essentially the CSA's unwillingness to make important steps moving forward, hinting at what he felt had gone wrong. So he chose to be discreet, and also happened to come out openly wishing Herdman the very best. When Herdman has never said a single positive word about the legacy left him, or about Octavio (who he was working with as a fellow CSA hire) so the contrast in character, in integrity, is glaring. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, dbailey62 said:

You could think "Wow, Zambrano must have really messed up behind the scenes to be ditched so soon!" and you'd be half right.

Because you would have only heard half the story.

Fixed the post for you.

[dbailey62]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fixed the post for you.

Well, you could say the other half is the CSA's fault for hiring him in the first place!

Discreet? Most likely a mutual agreement to not air dirty laundry. He had nothing to be gained in a mud slinging contest!

Edited December 6, 2018 by dbailey62

[cronaldo7]

47 minutes ago, Oranje said:

I think you mean "Feed 2 birds with 1 scone", no?

Beat me to it ?

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Oranje said:

I think you mean "Feed 2 birds with 1 scone", no?

If that is suppose to be some sort of joke I missed it, but glad to see others get some joy from it!

[Oranje]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

If that is suppose to be some sort of joke I missed it, but glad to see others get some joy from it!

You'll get a kick out of it, or lose what's left of your faith in humanity

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2018/12/05/peta-wants-change-anti-animal-sayings-internet-thinks-theyre-feeding-fed-horse/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7e15fef97f66

[jpg75]

The Ricky version from TPB is better "Get two birds stoned at once".

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Oranje said:

You'll get a kick out of it, or lose what's left of your faith in humanity

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2018/12/05/peta-wants-change-anti-animal-sayings-internet-thinks-theyre-feeding-fed-horse/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7e15fef97f66

Ugh, the link reveals enough. I'm not giving WP the click....

[Obinna]

Just now, jpg75 said:

The Ricky version from TPB is better "Get two birds stoned at once".

I was going to post that haha

[kacbru]

6 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

I'm not speculating! I've heard more than enough from multiple sources but I'm not at liberty to disclose! He was a disastrous hire leaving the CSA in a no win position! His firing was inevitable. 

Ref is saying his firing was a mistake although he has no idea of why he might have been fired.

Now that makes no sense!

Edit: I'll just add that I was just as disconcerted by the firing/hiring as anybody else and I am just as skeptical as anybody else. I'm not a blind faith supporter of Herdman but as this is the situation we are in, I'm going to let him succeed or fail on his own merits and record. For the sake of Canada, I just hope that he succeeds even if he does so in spite of himself. 

And I've got the solution to global poverty and hunger and I also have the extended cut of Trump's pee pee tape.  Unfortunately, I can't share it.

[dbailey62]

Just now, kacbru said:

And I've got the solution to global poverty and hunger and I also have the extended cut of Trump's pee pee tape.  Unfortunately, I can't share it.

Somebody has it!