Herdman new head coach

[Gian-Luca]

27 minutes ago, aloyol said:

Videos of our MNT playing games (against decent opponents) would be way better to have that discussion but it seems not everyone agree with that....

This has been the problem for over a year now - we have very little to go on in terms of on-field play. Off-field recruitment has been very good, but means very little if we play very few games with very little in the way of preparation. We don't even know how effective the motivational aspects of Herdman as a coach has come in handy when the team faces adversity, because we haven't faced any adversity yet because we haven't really been challenged.

I'm not calling for him to be fired or even speculating on it, just that I'm in the "wait and see" camp, but am rather tired of being in that camp because of how our schedule has been the past 12 months.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Gian-Luca

[RS]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

This has been the problem for over a year now - we have very little to go on in terms of on-field play. Off-field recruitment has been very good, but means very little if we play very few games with very little in the way of preparation. We don't even know how effective the motivational aspects of Herdman as a coach has come in handy when the team faces adversity, because we haven't faced any adversity yet because we haven't really been challenged.

I'm not calling for him to be fired or even speculating on it, just that I'm in the "wait and see" camp, but am rather tired of being in that camp of how our schedule has been the past 12 months.

This is all very fair criticism, but I suspect the lack of friendlies isn't on Herdman but rather higher up the food chain. Maybe that's why I'm more lenient on him that some others seem to be.

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

We just dont like the slimy speeches full of platitudes, hip coaching BUZZ words and pseudo "Tony Robbins" style motivation.   I wonder if the players do??  I find it hard to believe this kind of baloney has much effect on seasoned pros like Hutch, Arfield, Borjan et al.  I sure hope he is doing great things behind the scenes, ie making foundational changes to the "entire landscape" of CDN soccer.  And not just working on his lecture circuit act.  

This is what I don't get. 

Why is Tony Robbins style motivation a negative? He is world renowned and countless people and businesses use this style to great success. This is a well documented fact.

Do people dislike it because it they view it as different than what passes for motivation in the traditional soccer world?

Just trying to understand this perspective, because it doesn't really make sense to me.

Thanks!

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

This is all very fair criticism, but I suspect the lack of friendlies isn't on Herdman but rather higher up the food chain. Maybe that's why I'm more lenient on him that some others seem to be.

He said he doesn’t want friendlies ! Also every manager we have had as said we need more games against better  competition but he doesn’t ?  I give him credit on recruiting ,  now is it him or of the fact that Canada has a good team now  with some pretty talented players ?  Probably both.  But he hasn’t proven anything on the field. I’m sorry  The youth Ontario provincial team  could win against some of those Caribbean teams.  All the major teams in World are still playing friendlies , even concacaf teams. But we are not! I don’t get? We have the players to be  competitive against higher end teams and we have the stadiums to do it.

[KW519]

You can only beat who's in front of you. People should judge him for things that have happened, not for things that haven't happened. 

[SpecialK]

3 minutes ago, KW519 said:

You can only beat who's in front of you. People should judge him for things that have happened, not for things that haven't happened. 

We beaten shopper keepers and students !!!  Woo hoo !!! Victory at last!!! 

[KW519]

Just now, SpecialK said:

We beaten shopper keepers and students !!!  Woo hoo !!! Victory at last!!! 

Again, you can only beat who's in front of you.

[SpecialK]

3 minutes ago, KW519 said:

Again, you can only beat who's in front of you.

And Herdman doesn’t want to play against top tier team. Why is the CSA and Herdman so  scared? What Herdman can’t back up his happy planet world  motivation bullshit talks ? 

For me this is a problem. 

[RS]

1 minute ago, SpecialK said:

And Herdman doesn’t want to play against top tier team.

With all due respect, this is complete conjecture by you.

[SpecialK]

Just now, RS said:

With all due respect, this is complete conjecture by you.

No ! He said it in a TSN interview. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by SpecialK

[SpecialK]

Here’s another article .

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/soccer/news/canada-soccer-john-herdman-canmnt-play-more-games-concacaf-nations-league/1js0e4nh8r5od159rcuzu6a03o

[BrennanFan]

5 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

No ! He said it in a TSN interview. 

Specifically, he said he didn't want to play friendlies in addition to the CNL qualifiers during the available FIFA windows, which is pathetic.

No doubt @RS is completely unaware of the article you posted. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by BrennanFan

[Gian-Luca]

18 minutes ago, RS said:

This is all very fair criticism, but I suspect the lack of friendlies isn't on Herdman but rather higher up the food chain. Maybe that's why I'm more lenient on him that some others seem to be.

The lack of friendlies I'd say is definitely more of a CSA issue than a Herdman one. I just think the inactivity and not being able to see any truly meaningful results or progress lead to a certain amount of skepticism when in the meantime we seem don't get much in the way of tactical or strategy discussions and instead just inspirational talks. I think there's a sense among the fanbase given his background (or lack thereof) in the men's game, that the motivational side is all that he really excels in (or is capable of). Even in the 3 meaningful games we've played under him, in two of them we played just 2 defenders because of how incredibly weak the opposition is, and that's not something that we'll ever do against the team we are trying to progress against and not much we can really take away in terms of whether he has the tactical acumen for the job. Perhaps if people could see more  videos of him discussing strategies, possible formations with available personnel etc. we might see less of the skepticism and poking fun at him.

Still, it could be worse - at least he hasn't appeared in any recent Gillette ads.....

[RS]

9 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Specifically, he said he didn't want to play friendlies in addition to the CNL qualifiers during the available FIFA windows, which is pathetic.

No doubt @RS is completely unaware of the article you posted. 

No doubt.

Herdman is the CSA's spokesman (to the chagrin of many here), so I'm not discounting the possibility that he's simply putting a nice spin on the situation, combined with his own plans for the team. 

EDIT: Remember that outside of one or two instances, neither of Floro or Zambrano's teams played two games in  each international window either. This is simply a continuation of an established practice for the CSA.

Edited March 4, 2019 by RS

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I don’t get why people always call that a New Zealand C team. I looked it up, and they were missing maybe 5 players. It would have been like us missing Arfield, Hoilett, Hutch, Larin, and James. Wouldn’t be a huge deal, and definitely no C team. Just an A team missing a few top players.

Agree, I hate that bullshit when people try to backhandedly denigrate the Canadian team by saying the other team isn't up to snuff.  Fact is teams will almost always be missing a player or two (or more) but that is the team that was proffered and that is who was chosen to rep their country.  I assume lineups aren't picked to lose so please enough with the universal excuse of A, B or C team, it's lame.

[Bison44]

17 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This is what I don't get. 

Why is Tony Robbins style motivation a negative? He is world renowned and countless people and businesses use this style to great success. This is a well documented fact.

Do people dislike it because it they view it as different than what passes for motivation in the traditional soccer world?

Just trying to understand this perspective, because it doesn't really make sense to me.

Thanks!

To me, tony robbins and Herdman just seem like carnival barkers, using buzz words/catch phrases that dont really mean anything and seem much more interested in promoting themselves and their image.  Plenty of people buy into what they have to say, not me... although I am no expert on tony robbins.  

[BrennanFan]

CSA should just hire Tony Robbins.

[BrennanFan]

13 minutes ago, RS said:

No doubt.

Herdman is the CSA's spokesman (to the chagrin of many here), so I'm not discounting the possibility that he's simply putting a nice spin on the situation, combined with his own plans for the team. 

EDIT: Remember that outside of one or two instances, neither of Floro or Zambrano's teams played two games in  each international window either. This is simply a continuation of an established practice for the CSA.

I'm ready to cut the CSA/Herdman a break for the lack of friendlies bc we have a lot more time before WCQ starts this cycle compared to past cycles.  And we do have plenty of official games this year to test Herdman out, and make a move if one is required.

Last cycle, Floro should have been fired after the 2015 Gold Cup.  Not many called for his head then bc we were missing key players and WCQ was just around the corner.  But at the Gold Cup, his weird defensive play, playing people out of position and refusing to play guys like Osorio should have been enough red flags to get him fired. 

We cannot afford to ignore red flags again.  I'd even give Herdman to the CNL games to correct mistakes, but if we are not winning games by the end of the year, he should be axed. 

[RS]

9 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

We cannot afford to ignore red flags again.  I'd even give Herdman to the CNL games to correct mistakes, but if we are not winning games by the end of the year, he should be axed. 

Honestly, that's far more reasonable a stance than wanting him fired because he says funny words.

[KW519]

[Kadenge]

The Gold Cup is right around the corner and that will be JH's litmus test. I was one of many who was shocked, disappointed and angry with the dismissal of OZ as our performance at the 2017 GC was significant re the attacking style that he brought, while advancing from a group with CR, Honduras and FG... finishing ahead of Honduras (!!!) to the QF.  While the past 12 months have been a gift for any new coach, 4 games against weak teams, JH has made significant gains as follows:

1. Significantly more media attention and enhancement of CMNT brand. JH is omnipresent on TV, news media, podcasts etc... Phonzie helps re FC Bayern and Nike for sure. We need to increase the fan base and winning will help, but media attention is crucial;

2. significant gains with dual nationals - Tabla, Eustaquio and I am sure more are around the corner. He has also cap tied many of our top young players;

3. JH appears to be working closely with JDV re improving the grass roots LTPD in addition to working with the 3 MLS academies. This will be enhanced with the start of the CPL and in my opinion  crucial for long term sustained development of quality prospects for the CMNT;

4. JH has complimented OZ for doing a lot of good work with the CMNT and setting the bar with a QF appearance in the 2017 GC; so he is setting the minimum standard for this year. There is no doubt our squad is much stronger now and we should perform well, but he is not shying away from that challenge.

I agree that JH may have been better suited as a  GM vs. coach, but  I hope for the sake of the CMNT, players and all of us fans, that he is super successful, otherwise we will have missed a glorious opportunity with our "golden generation" emerging. It is difficult to judge our performance against weak opposition, but I am hoping that he uses the FG game to roll out a traditional line up, with players playing in their proper position and a meaningful formation etc. The time for showcasing our many attacking talents has to take second place to setting up the team properly for the GC. Wish him luck guys!

 

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, KW519 said:

 

Let’s just hope Herdman brings his level of detail against a top tier team real soon. It’s time ! We have the players, the fans want it and we have the  stadiums for it. The only question marks is Herdman and the CSA and those are huge ????

[Kadenge]

5 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Let’s just hope Herdman brings his level of detail against a top tier team real soon. It’s time ! We have the players, the fans want it and we have the  stadiums for it. The only question marks is Herdman and the CSA and those are huge ????

if not now...then when?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Kadenge

[Corazon]

49 minutes ago, RS said:

No doubt.

Herdman is the CSA's spokesman (to the chagrin of many here), so I'm not discounting the possibility that he's simply putting a nice spin on the situation, combined with his own plans for the team. 

EDIT: Remember that outside of one or two instances, neither of Floro or Zambrano's teams played two games in  each international window either. This is simply a continuation of an established practice for the CSA.

Herdman is the puppet for CSA.  Says what he has to or else he will end up like Oz who was very open-minded and opinionated.  As OZ stated in his interviews he was always trying to get more friendlies for preparation but the CSA was the roadblack many times.  It was noted by OZ that the CSA did allow for a closed door scrimmage vs another CONCACAF team before the last Gold Cup.  This scrimmage was never noted by media at the time.

[SpecialK]

14 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

if not now...the when?

Even a mid level team - Russia ,  Turkey Iceland, Norway ,Australia, Scotland  etc, would be good 

Edited March 4, 2019 by SpecialK