CPL General

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

He’s basically saying the league is full of CFL buddies who are running the show and they don’t care what others think or say and for the most part at the The surface it looks to be true.

What's the source? The evidence? "Hamilton mafia" is not evidence.

Also, assuming that the CPL staffers are CFL guys, there's a chain of command and the last say comes from the top - Commissioner's office and BoG.

Employing people who have experience running a league is just business common sense. 

Stop seeing demons everywhere like the other guy... 

18 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

The league wants to run the league on the cheap and don’t want to bring soccer people and other businesses people or a players union.

You're directly contradicting your 1st point. CFL isn't being run on the "cheap". There's a union, over $5M cap yet according to you, run by the same diabolical people.

You do see a disconnect right?

21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

There is a reason why players are leaving and we really haven’t had any growth with new teams, just talk no action  and York already doing a rebrand ( I like the rebrand)

Players are leaving because of money, that's not a secret.

Growth of new teams? Ottawa doesn't count? I must have missed every single Canadians having been vaccinated against Covid - last time I checked, there's a global pandemic

Rebrand has more to do with the original management than the league.

23 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

For him to go out and tweet back just looks bad and pity when it’s just an article. Mitchell must be taking a play book out of the CSA. If you don’t kiss our ass you are dead and we will attack you. 

A poorly written paper and he didn't insult him, just set the record straight which he did in a clear and concise way. 

Also, that just proves that he doesn't have what it takes to be a journalist because some journalists have be vocal about what happens when you speak negatively against CF Montréal, Habs are even worse. You absolutely get contacted by the team asking you to watch what you're saying.

But hey, he's NEVER going to bring this up EVER...it's MLS after all but he's happy to oblige for CPL. A little more professionalism would be welcome

 

[Ansem]

32 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Also don’t kid yourself Scott Michell can say oh I’m not with the CPL, I’m with CSB is just BS. They are one and the same. He’s picture and bio are second from the top on the league website there’s a reason why. Come on he’s Young right hand man! He controls all the media rights of Canadian Soccer that includes the CPL ! He’s being a cry baby 

You don't understand the organizational chart. That's why this isn't news anywhere else except for Duane Rollins who's reaching for a controversy.

Ask yourself, if Rollins really was onto something, why isn't this news anywhere else? No, others recycling Rollins tweets in their blogs isn't news

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ansem

[Ansem]

15 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

If they were smart, they would bring in some more business people, women, and different media people like a John Shannon who ran basically Hockey night in Canada and the NHL network and other things. Also sign a deal with a players union and up the salaries 

More business people??? What are the owners? 

Women? Agreed but they are HARDLY the only ones who could do better there.

Media people? Didn't a TSN guy worked for CPL? The MediaPro deal is hardly a failure thus far

I'm pro Union, but it will take time. I'm pro player but it's wishful thinking to hope that the league are going to want to discuss a first collective agreement in the middle of a pandemic. This is a post Covid possibility.

[SpecialK]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You're directly contradicting your 1st point. CFL isn't being run on the "cheap". There's a union, over $5M cap yet according to you, run by the same diabolical people.

You do see a disconnect right?

I’m talking about the CPL being cheap and the CPL doesn’t have a union like most Major  soccer leagues 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I’m talking about the CPL being cheap and the CPL doesn’t have a union like most Major  soccer leagues 

But they are ran by the same people as CFL who have a union

Also, it took MLS 6 years to have a union, not year 2 or 3 or in the middle of a pandemic. I'm not saying CPL is beyond reproach but to expect those running it to act differently is beyond naive.

Thomas Nef podcast is also critical of this, very harsh actually but it's done within context and professionally while presenting both sides of the argument. That's a better starting point to be critical of the league than the agenda-driven Rollins.

[SpecialK]

https://briarpatchmagazine.com/articles/view/levelling-the-playing-field
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/calgarysun.com/sports/soccer/cpl-cuts-wages-to-players-coaches-staff/wcm/be1d5d4c-57a0-4555-91bd-ebe49bf5890b/amp/
 

https://northerntribune.ca/marcel-de-jong-canadian-premier-league-wages/

 

there’s plenty more

[SpecialK]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

But they are ran by the same people as CFL who have a union

Also, it took MLS 6 years to have a union, not year 2 or 3 or in the middle of a pandemic. I'm not saying CPL is beyond reproach but to expect those running it to act differently is beyond naive.

Thomas Nef podcast is also critical of this, very harsh actually but it's done within context and professionally while presenting both sides of the argument. That's a better starting point to be critical of the league than the agenda-driven Rollins.

The CFL has had a union for a long time. Since 65 I think. So who cares the CFL people who run the CPL don’t want one. That’s that issue! It’s the same small close CFL friends who run the CPL and they are doing on the Cheap and players and game are suffering for it. That’s not tier 1 league material. 4 out of 6 leadership people worked for CFL- 3 out of 6 worked for Hamilton and have business tides to Hamilton.

rollins must have sources and everyone has been critical of the CPL but salaries for a while now. 

[SpecialK]

I think Rollins just wants better, I have listen to his podcast. I believe us fans should want and expect better, not just blindly  kiss their ass because omg we have a league now. 

[Watchmen]

Whether or not it's a close group of CFL friends running the CPL is irrelevant to whether or not the league is also being run "on the Cheap".  Only two teams are directly linked to the CFL ownership, Hamilton and Winnipeg.  Of the two, Hamilton seems to be one of the heavier investors in the league and has won the league twice.  I'll listen to accusastions that Winnipeg might be getting run "on the cheap", with the Bombers more concerned about having a 2nd tenant for the stadium rather than winning (though I'll stand to be corrected on that as well).  Further, the organzation/ownership that seems to come up the most often in terms of being cost conscious is Pacific.  Ownership definitely seemed to be much more aggressive in having a lower salary cap initially, and maintained a smaller roster last year.

Having said that, let's not be naive and think that Mitchell was fully honest in his discussion of the power dynamics at the league and ownership levels.  Young has been active since the beginning and is financing two of the teams. There's a reason Hamilton got preferential treatment in the league's first Voyager's Cup entry.

[Aird25]

I think if fans cared more about the sport and less about the business we’d be in a far better place. 

[narduch]

One of my main issues with Rollins is that he treats TFC with kid gloves. 

This looks like he has an axe to grind. 

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I think if fans cared more about the sport and less about the business we’d be in a far better place. 

I hear ya in theory, but the business side affects the sporting side...no?

[narduch]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I think if fans cared more about the sport and less about the business we’d be in a far better place. 

Think a lot of this is inside baseball too.

Really name me a North American league where the fans don't hate the commissioner?

[SpecialK]

7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Whether or not it's a close group of CFL friends running the CPL is irrelevant to whether or not the league is also being run "on the Cheap".  Only two teams are directly linked to the CFL ownership, Hamilton and Winnipeg.  Of the two, Hamilton seems to be one of the heavier investors in the league and has won the league twice.  I'll listen to accusastions that Winnipeg might be getting run "on the cheap", with the Bombers more concerned about having a 2nd tenant for the stadium rather than winning (though I'll stand to be corrected on that as well).  Further, the organzation/ownership that seems to come up the most often in terms of being cost conscious is Pacific.  Ownership definitely seemed to be much more aggressive in having a lower salary cap initially, and maintained a smaller roster last year.

Having said that, let's not be naive and think that Mitchell was fully honest in his discussion of the power dynamics at the league and ownership levels.  Young has been active since the beginning and is financing two of the teams. There's a reason Hamilton got preferential treatment in the league's first Voyager's Cup entry.

3 - Jeff hunt was part owner of the Ottawa red blacks.

I have no problem with CFL people in the CPL and I am super happy we have a league. My issue is that there starting look like they’re cracks in the foundation and we have gone backwards. Yes COVID has screwed everything up, but you can’t blame COVID on everything. Also my bigger issue is that just because someone in the media writes article about the CPL issues and short comings, their top guy cries foul and acts like a baby. To me that looks bad on them and makes them look like they don’t care about the problem and they don’t want to address them. It’s like oh Canada we created this league for you, worship us and we’re doing a great job we are 1st tier league, When they are not even paying  the players and players are jumping ship. Something smells here.

Edited March 2, 2021 by SpecialK

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Think a lot of this is inside baseball too.

Really name me a North American league where the fans don't hate the commissioner?

The biggest league in North America.... NBA.

Adam Silver is actually praised for how he’s dealt with certain things. 

[RS]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

The biggest league in North America.... NBA.

The NFL is the biggest league in North America (by some metrics its the biggest in the world). Roger Goodell is hated pretty much universally among NFL fans.

[Ansem]

45 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Also my bigger issue is that just because someone in the media writes article about the CPL issues and short comings, their top guy cries foul and acts like a baby.

There's nothing in Scott Mitchell rebuttal that remotely reflects what you're saying here. You're projecting Rollins victimization act. Please stop - As I said earlier, big clubs/leagues do far worse to journalists covering them than just tweeting a rebuttal.

47 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

My issue is that there starting look like they’re cracks in the foundation and we have gone backwards. Yes COVID has screwed everything up, but you can’t blame COVID on everything.

You're giving way too much importance to Duane Rollins. When multiple mainstream media reports the same issues than there will be validity to potentially being cracks in the foundation of the league. Until then, one's "feelings" isn't evidence - I don't know a single workplace who don't have employees being critical of their employers. Claiming that the ship might be sinking is an exaggeration, especially with no evidence.

50 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

To me that looks bad on them and makes them look like they don’t care about the problem and they don’t want to address them.

How do you know they don't want to improve?

58 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

It’s like oh Canada we created this league for you, worship us and we’re doing a great job we are 1st tier league, When they are not even paying  the players and players are jumping ship. Something smells here.

This right here is why we can't have nice things in this country.

Like it or not, they put their money and took TONS of risk into launching this league. How much of your own money is tied up into the league who anyone in the business world would classify it as a very high risk venture?

Despite disliking players wages and lack of contact with the union wanting to represent them, there's a right way and a wrong way to advocate for change.

You want better wages and conditions for players? Yes be critical but also do it in a way where you recognize that

1. The league and clubs have to survive first and foremost otherwise, no one gets anything at all
2. You are not entitled to a league - people have taken significant risks to make this fly, respect that.
3. The best way to improve working conditions is tied up to revenues. We should be talking about how to help support clubs and league post COVID a bit more here while constructively advocating for improvement for players. This isn't constructive

Players are jumping ships...Give me a break man! You're panicking over a few. It's year 1 - the league isn't in a place where it can outbid everyone this early and don't forget that they are focused on giving opportunities to young players who were unlikely to go pro.

CPL will become more "elite" eventually - they can't do everything in year 1. It took MLS some times by the way before they could repatriate some of the better US players who were overseas, they didn't do that in year one.

For the love of God - Chill!!!!!!!!

[Shway]

1 hour ago, RS said:

The NFL is the biggest league in North America (by some metrics its the biggest in the world). Roger Goodell is hated pretty much universally among NFL fans.

stand corrected. I thought it was the NBA through their new TV deals. 

[Dominic94]

I skimmed through this but if you can’t pay a liveable wage in your city you aren’t a fucking pro team period, and you certainly aren’t a pro league. 
 

I love having a league, but for crying out loud we aren’t first division in anything but name. If the fucking 3rd division is paying better wages across the border and you’re losing players that would be stars or decent plays players for you to the south, then it’s a wake up call quite frankly.

enough of this BS of the league needs to survive etc. Like seriously anyone who says it or thinks it shut the fuck up. I’ll take the infraction or whatever it is we have around here.

 

Some of the owners are literal billionaires or have hundreds of millions of dollars, losing 500k to 1M a year isn’t going to kill them or change much and if anything it’s a tax write off. Quite frankly their other businesses easily make up that lost revenue and that’s peanuts to lose for a major sports league team. 
 

when McCain steps up in the Atlantic and they will, are you really going to tell me they can’t afford to lose 1M a year ??? Those guys pay fucking Junior hockey players 6 figures to show up. Who owns the Wildcats ???

we’ve established that Hamilton, York, Calvary are loaded to the moon and back. Halifax is also loaded as theyre owned by Bob Young. So that’s half the league that is more than fine ?

ottawa’s owners are worth what like 6 billion combined ??? They’re richer than what half the leagues ownerships combined ? They can sell one player from their clubs and cover their Ottawa losses.

I don’t know about pacific, Edmonton or Valour, but maybe only Valour would really struggle to pay a liveable wage and are they really community owned ? 
 

if you’re going to be a first division league you’re going to have to pay first division wages. We don’t and it’s a fucking joke, I get not wanting to lose, and wanting to raise the quality but that costs money so spend it on your cdn’s also because we could have brought home some high profile players if we hadn’t of been cheap and that would have raised the quality.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Dominic94

[gator]

I want the players to be paid better and I want the quality of the league to increase, these go hand in hand as far as I'm concerned, I am also a realist, this is a gate driven league that had to survive in a pandemic in only it's second season of existence, I'll give them a little time to sort this out! I am not a big fan of Scott Mitchell mostly due to the TiCats holding the city ransom in the new stadium build, it should have been on the bayfront, the Cats threatened to leave Hamilton if they didn't get their way which is a joke, they aren't exactly the Dallas Cowboys, if there was another viable location for a CFL team to play out of there would be a team there already! That is on our council and in fairness Mitchell was just probably the spokesman for Bob Young, I didn't find much wrong with his response to Duane!

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I skimmed through this but if you can’t pay a liveable wage in your city you aren’t a fucking pro team period, and you certainly aren’t a pro league. 

That would disqualify MOST of the leagues in the world - certainly in the Americas. I see where you're coming from though.

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I love having a league, but for crying out loud we aren’t first division in anything but name.

Why not? Isn't it the top league in this country? Do we have alternatives in Canada because MLS is a US league and I don't see other leagues being better. We are Division 1 in the Canadian "context", just like "Ligue Haitienne" is D1 in it's country and so on... If you try to detach from using the Americans as the measuring stick about everything, that concept is easier to understand.

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

If the fucking 3rd division is paying better wages across the border and you’re losing players that would be stars or decent plays players for you to the south, then it’s a wake up call quite frankly.

After a handful of players? Isn't this a bit premature for a 1 year old league? I mean Indy has a track record of getting guys signed to MLS, Sissoko preferring that team makes sense for him. He's really good and perhaps going there increased his chances to make the jump than staying in Halifax.

Same for the guy who signed in D3. Yes he went to USL-1 but he went to a team who will be the direct feeder to the new MLS Charlotte. If he does very well and work hard, he might make the jump - more realistic than staying in Ottawa and hoping getting noticed by Madrid.

You have to think of CPL as a "stepping stone" to better opportunities - not the end game, that's how most players view the league. CPL isn't at the stage where you can be a "lifer" in that league. Heck, even the CFL with a minimum salary of $50k sees most of it's players having jobs in the off season to supplement their revenues.

I mean, there are steps to this and just like every other leagues in existence, they all went through the growing pains...including MLS. Crying foul because CPL hasn't done in 1 year what others took decades is naive, childish and ridiculous

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

enough of this BS of the league needs to survive etc. Like seriously anyone who says it or thinks it shut the fuck up. I’ll take the infraction or whatever it is we have around here.

How will those players get opportunities if CPL disappear tomorrow morning?

Will Garber grant expansions into Canada? NO

Will the 3 MLS teams pick them up and give them minutes? Mostly - NO

Would a Canadian regional D2 or D3 pay them any better or provide a better platform to get them opportunities than CPL? Heck NO

Yeah....the league kinda needs to survive...

 

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Some of the owners are literal billionaires or have hundreds of millions of dollars, losing 500k to 1M a year isn’t going to kill them or change much and if anything it’s a tax write off. Quite frankly their other businesses easily make up that lost revenue and that’s peanuts to lose for a major sports league team. 

It's ultimately their money. They chose to launch a league, they chose to take all the risks for your entertainment and to provide opportunities for young Canadians. They did their homework and learned about past mistakes (CSL - MLS almost going under). They don't owe any of us to burn cash, we are not entitled to CPL and they can take it away if it makes no business sense.

Hate it all you want - there's a reason they are "rich" and we aren't. Had they managed their money your way, they'd never be in the position today to lose millions on a league. Do you have skin in the game to tell them how much more money they should burn for fun just because you said so?

I don't, I also wish they did things better but I respect what they've built for Canadian soccer with their own cash when no one else would. Stop acting entitled and stop being naive into believing that they are burning cash, taking risks and dealing with BS they didn't need too just so they can be tyrants towards players. Grow up!

 

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

when McCain steps up in the Atlantic and they will, are you really going to tell me they can’t afford to lose 1M a year ??? Those guys pay fucking Junior hockey players 6 figures to show up. Who owns the Wildcats ???

we’ve established that Hamilton, York, Calvary are loaded to the moon and back. Halifax is also loaded as theyre owned by Bob Young. So that’s half the league that is more than fine ?

ottawa’s owners are worth what like 6 billion combined ??? They’re richer than what half the leagues ownerships combined ? They can sell one player from their clubs and cover their Ottawa losses.

I don’t know about pacific, Edmonton or Valour, but maybe only Valour would really struggle to pay a liveable wage and are they really community owned ? 

You don't understand how business works... it really shows but this doesn't invalidate constructive criticism. Pay needs to be better and a dialogue with the union is a must - can't keep ignoring them.

At the same time you want everyone to see things your way and you're not entirely wrong, you have got to at least make the effort to see the other side of the coin - which you aren't.

 

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

if you’re going to be a first division league you’re going to have to pay first division wages. We don’t and it’s a fucking joke, I get not wanting to lose, and wanting to raise the quality but that costs money so spend it on your cdn’s also because we could have brought home some high profile players if we hadn’t of been cheap and that would have raised the quality.

What's first division wage? Point me to a FIFA manual that defines that, please! Did MLS pay "First division wage in their inaugural year?

MLS nor Rome was built overnight but we can help to speed up things which helps the league and players. Demonizing owners isn't helping one bit. Talking about ways to help the league get more mainstream while constructively put pressure for change is time and energy better spent.

Talk more about online petition, mass tweets demanding improvements, mass feedback forms asking for improvements, SG letters - all of this done respectfully and professionally because that's what those owners will listen too

Rollins way nor yours is constructive, it's destructive really and turning off the league to potential fans ultimately doesn't help the players. --> You lost the argument by telling people to "shut the F up"

PFCan could learn from MLSPA restrain while owners were busy skinning them. They won the PR battle while not throwing the league under the bus. They get it - we also have to be able to criticize both sides

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ansem

[johnyb]

35 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That would disqualify MOST of the leagues in the world - certainly in the Americas. I see where you're coming from though.

Why not? Isn't it the top league in this country? Do we have alternatives in Canada because MLS is a US league and I don't see other leagues being better. We are Division 1 in the Canadian "context", just like "Ligue Haitienne" is D1 in it's country and so on... If you try to detach from using the Americans as the measuring stick about everything, that concept is easier to understand.

After a handful of players? Isn't this a bit premature for a 1 year old league? I mean Indy has a track record of getting guys signed to MLS, Sissoko preferring that team makes sense for him. He's really good and perhaps going there increased his chances to make the jump than staying in Halifax.

Same for the guy who signed in D3. Yes he went to USL-1 but he went to a team who will be the direct feeder to the new MLS Charlotte. If he dows very well and work hard, he might make the jump - more realistic than staying in Ottawa and hoping getting noticed by Madrid.

You have to think of CPL as a "stepping stone" to better opportunities - not the end game, that's how most players view the league. CPL isn't at the stage where you can be a "lifer" in that league. Heck, even the CFL with a minimum salary of $50k sees most of it's players having jobs in the off season to supplement their revenues.

I mean, there are steps to this and just like every other leagues in existence, they all went through the growing pains...including MLS. Crying foul because CPL hasn't done in 1 year what others took decades is naive, childish and ridiculous

How will those players get opportunities if CPL disappear tomorrow morning?

Will Garber grant expansions into Canada? NO

Will the 3 MLS teams pick them up and give them minutes? Mostly - NO

Would a Canadian regional D2 or D3 pay them any better or provide a better platform to get them opportunities than CPL? Heck NO

Yeah....the league kinda needs to survive...

 

It's ultimately their money. They chose to launch a league, they chose to take all the risks for your entertainment and to provide opportunities for young Canadians. They did their homework and learned about past mistakes (CSL - MLS almost going under). They don't owe any of us to burn cash, we are not entitled to CPL and they can take it away if it makes no business sense.

Hate it all you want - there's a reason they are "rich" and we aren't. Had they managed their money your way, they'd never be in the position today to lose millions on a league. Do you have skin in the game to tell them how much more money they should burn for fun just because you said so?

I don't, I also wish they did things better but I respect what they've built for Canadian soccer with their own cash when no one else would. Stop acting entitled and stop being naive into believing that they are burning cash, taking risks and dealing with BS they didn't need too just so they can be tyrants towards players. Grow up!

 

You don't understand how business works... it really shows but this doesn't invalidate constructive criticism. Pay needs to be better and a dialogue with the union is a must - can't keep ignoring them.

At the same time you want everyone to see things your way and you're not entirely wrong, you have got to at least make the effort to see the other side of the coin - which you aren't.

 

What's first division wage? Point me to a FIFA manual that defines that, please! Did MLS pay "First division wage in their inaugural year?

MLS nor Rome was built overnight but we can help to speed up things which helps the league and players. Demonizing owners isn't helping one bit. Talking about ways to help the league get more mainstream while constructively put pressure for change is time and energy better spent.

Talk more about online petition, mass tweets demanding improvements, mass feedback forms asking for improvements, SG letters all of this done respectfully and professionally because that's what those owners will listen too - not 

Rollins way nor yours is constructive, it's destructive really and turning off the league ultimately doesn't help the players. --> You lost the argument by telling people to "shut the F up"

PFCan could learn from MLSPA restrain while owners were busy skinning them. They won the PR battle while not throwing the league under the bus. They get it - we also have to be able to criticize both sides

 

Thanks Ansem for taking the time for a well thought out response to that ridiculous post. Sorry for the quote but I just didn't feel "liking your post" was adequate. 

[SpursFlu]

For like 10 years the CPL by most was considered impossible because of a lack of money. After 1 year its limping thru a global pandemic that if you project out will affect season 2 and 3 and people are up in arms that its not freely tossing around more money at the moment? People didn't get involved in this league to salt their money away. This isn't charity. The objective is to create a foundation that will grow in various ways in to something bigger and better. At the moment its not even on the radar of 95% of Canadians

[ted]

17 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I think if fans cared more about the sport and less about the business we’d be in a far better place. 

If only we could. Sadly the survival of the league depends on business decisions more than passion from the existing fans so whether we like it or not we end up having to pay attention. Of course it doesn't help that we have had very little CPL action to watch over the last year.

 

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, ted said:

If only we could. Sadly the survival of the league depends on business decisions more than passion from the existing fans so whether we like it or not we end up having to pay attention. Of course it doesn't help that we have had very little CPL action to watch over the last year.

 

You do more for the sport in Victoria than most, so I hate to disagree with you. Please explain how any of this is helping to ensure the survival of the league. I can only envision it having the opposite effect