CPL General

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Many expected TFC to be just that on the men's side but that is not what happened. You have no guarantee that that's how things would go for an NWSL team in Canada

Very true.  However, there's a lot more men's leagues in the world, MLS had an even tighter salary cap system then, and MLS was very definitely not viewed as one of the top leagues in the world.  That isn't the same in women's soccer.  Further, the CSA already picks up the salary on national team players in the NWSL (unless that rule has changed), so I would think they'd be pushing to have more of those players located (and marketed) in Canada.

11 minutes ago, Ansem said:

"They'll take it"... no one knows that.  

There still have plenty of big markets available with marquee investors wanting to invest in the US. It's doubtful that we're a priority on their list.

There's 10 teams in the league, and in 7 years they've had 3 fold and 1 relocate.  We're not the priority, but I'm guessing if some stable ownership from Canada comes along, they're jumping at it.

15 minutes ago, Ansem said:

No love for the 2000 team who beat Mexico and Colombia back to back to win the Gold Cup? There was quality on that squad too

Love the 2000 team, but they were the final remnants of the good teams of the 1990s.  Further, they were also very clearly a one-off, with essentially the same squad failing to then qualify for the Hex in 2001. (pendatic note: they didn't beat Mexico and Colombia back to back - the beat Mexico, then Trinidad and Tobago in the semi final, then Colombia)

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Results does matter and 14 years of failures is unacceptable in most parts 

Floro than Zambrano had the same comments...

Do you think the current national team is a top 4/5 team in the region?  Because this board keeps repeatedly telling me that it is.  And quite frankly, that has zero to do with the CPL. It hasn't been around long enough yet to have had any impact on the full men's team.

30 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The problem isn't the talent... the lack of domestic league and minutes at pro level is an obvious disadvantage.

Having only 3 pro clubs with limited minutes for Canadians is like trying to pay back your maxed credit card with minimum payments. That won't get you far

Contrary to popular belief, there are, in fact, a significant amount of minutes available for Canadians.  Sometimes those Canadians just don't step up and seize the opportunity, or squander it with bad attitudes.  I still remember Whitecaps play by play (and huge CPL fan) being asked why the Whitecaps weren't playing more of their academy kids.  And his response was pretty straight forward - too many of them were acting with a sense of entitlement and failing to put in the effort necessary to get playing time.  The minutes were there, the Canadian boys just had a bad attitude.

39 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We can improve the foundation (D3) using assets like MediaPro who holds the rights to L1O (including women) to build it up.

Certainly.  But your assets from MediaPro are still fixed.  Any use of them for the D3 women's league mean's they're being pulled away from somwhere else. 

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

NWSL took 8 years to become what it is and to they had leadership at the USSF to facilitate it. Unfortunately, we don't have it here. Instead of working with CSB and CPL who have demonstrated that they could find business partners, we have the excentric new CSA guys willing to give NWSL everything that they want.

To me...that's a lack of leadership at the top.

There's no NWSL team in Canada.  The CSA hasn't admitted one in yet.  If the CSB and CPL want to start a league, by all means go for it.  But they haven't. If the opportunity for one is there that you think it is, that's a lack of leadership on their part.

[Ansem]

25 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Very true.  However, there's a lot more men's leagues in the world, MLS had an even tighter salary cap system then, and MLS was very definitely not viewed as one of the top leagues in the world.  That isn't the same in women's soccer.  Further, the CSA already picks up the salary on national team players in the NWSL (unless that rule has changed), so I would think they'd be pushing to have more of those players located (and marketed) in Canada.

Too many things we don't know... would they still pay part of those salaries? I kept getting hit with the argument that the CSA can't make clubs play Canadian yet you're implying that the CSA would tell a private investor how to run it's club...doubtful 

The club will run the club according to league rules and they won't treat us fairly

25 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

There's 10 teams in the league, and in 7 years they've had 3 fold and 1 relocate.  We're not the priority, but I'm guessing if some stable ownership from Canada comes along, they're jumping at it.

They are in a good place unlike MLS when TFC joined and pre-Beckham. They had a higher viewership than even MLS during the bubble tournament.

Last decade MLS would jump at anything, NWSL aren't in that position - and let's not minimize the added hardship of cross-border leagues which MLS are finding out during the pandemic. 

25 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Love the 2000 team, but they were the final remnants of the good teams of the 1990s.  Further, they were also very clearly a one-off, with essentially the same squad failing to then qualify for the Hex in 2001. (pendatic note: they didn't beat Mexico and Colombia back to back - the beat Mexico, then Trinidad and Tobago in the semi final, then Colombia)

Fair and thanks for correcting me

25 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Do you think the current national team is a top 4/5 team in the region?  Because this board keeps repeatedly telling me that it is.  And quite frankly, that has zero to do with the CPL. It hasn't been around long enough yet to have had any impact on the full men's team.

They are on paper, yes. I'm not saying that there hasn't been progress but you have to admit that in other parts of the world, 13 years of failure is deemed unacceptable but in Canada, we're so passive about it.

Yes, growing pain and of course CPL didn't exist. However, can't we come up with a better way to get results faster (by that I mean a top 5 or 3 nation...even winning gold) than going down the same route that got us bo success for over a decade? How is that wise?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Ansem

[Ansem]

28 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Contrary to popular belief, there are, in fact, a significant amount of minutes available for Canadians.  Sometimes those Canadians just don't step up and seize the opportunity, or squander it with bad attitudes.  I still remember Whitecaps play by play (and huge CPL fan) being asked why the Whitecaps weren't playing more of their academy kids.  And his response was pretty straight forward - too many of them were acting with a sense of entitlement and failing to put in the effort necessary to get playing time.  The minutes were there, the Canadian boys just had a bad attitude.

WOW!!!!!!!

No comments

29 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

There's no NWSL team in Canada.  The CSA hasn't admitted one in yet.  If the CSB and CPL want to start a league, by all means go for it.  But they haven't. If the opportunity for one is there that you think it is, that's a lack of leadership on their part.

I'm just saying that the CSA should sit CSB, CPL and our 3 clubs down to figure this out... That's what the USSF did when NWSL was launched with the CSA support...

Yet we have a new CSA president who's quick to throw his support at NWSL before doing due diligence on the Canadian side with our assets.

It's one thing to say there are no investors interested but another to not bother trying and Bontis - who just arrived in the role - already declared NWSL as the savior without EVER addressing CPL/CSB wanting to make it happen.

It's comical to me that we can't copy the W-League in Australia. Let's revisit when we fall from top 10 nation to top 20 and we'll celebrate how great our 1 or 2 NWSL clubs are helping us getting out of the hole after erasing the head start we had doing nothing.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^probably shouldn't but just to fact check the above and then leave it at that, it is worth noting that Nick Bontis has been the CSA vice-president since the 2017 AGM and was on the Board prior to that since 2012.

[RS]

Yep. Bontis has been around for years. 
To paint him as some Johnny-come-lately is disingenuous.

[Ansem]

He's driving the agenda and went on record saying that NSWL was the way for women's soccer...Montagliani didn't think so. That's what I mean by being "new at the top". I know he's been around for years, under someone else.

[Trois Reds]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:39 PM, Ansem said:

It's comical to me that we can't copy the W-League in Australia. Let's revisit when we fall from top 10 nation to top 20 and we'll celebrate how great our 1 or 2 NWSL clubs are helping us getting out of the hole after erasing the head start we had doing nothing.

Unfortunately I have to agree with this.  I watched the U20's this year and they looked bad.  Jamaica played them off the field, Guatemala actually had better scoring chances in their tie, and even in their win over El Salvador, they barely looked like scoring even though they had something like 70% possession.  I didn't watch after the prelims, because I didn't expect them to beat Cuba.  A sidenote: All the teams they played in the tournament (including the US, who they lost to in the quarters) have national leagues and a lot of the u20s play in their respective leagues.

They are little known, but Costa Rica also has a women's league.  So does Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, and, of course, Mexico.  Coincidentally, some of the Haitian women's team play in the PQSL...

Back to my point. One Canadian team in a US league won't help identify or nurture Canadian talent.  If TFC were by themselves in MLS for the last 13 years, there's a good chance players like ZBG, Baldisimo, Crepeau, and even Phonzie may not have been noticed by them, because they have enough talent in Southern Ontario.  Our CMNT got better with three MLS teams, mainly because they don't have to scout and develop a whole country by themselves.  If it was only TFC playing in MLS this whole decade, I doubt we'd be so excited about our men in 2020.

Including the NWSL, how many Canadian women are playing professional soccer in the world?  50? 60?  That isn't much to pick from for a top 5 country.  Adding 5 or 6 more spots for one American based Canadian team isn't going to make us better.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Trois Reds
Spelling

[deschamp86]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:06 AM, youllneverwalkalone said:

There is evidence in both directions. Skyler Thomas and Jordan Murrell always first on the sheet in USL looked lost in CPL. As much as Bustos seems reborn in CPL, that could have to do with a lot of things. I think you need to look to the older established players and see how they do in both. 

I'd be curious to see both of them back in CPL with different teams. I don't think either of them are nearly as bad as they appeared on that terrible Valour team

[Bison44]

Agree with this ^^^^.  Looking lost on that Valour backline was very common and maybe wasnt a good reflection of the talent.  Thomas was a solid USL player on a good Pittsburgh team last year.  Murell a little less so on a shitty Vegas team. They both should be able to slot into a CPL team and be useful pieces.  Not sure where they fit into the pay scale in USL, Pittsburgh seems to be a bit more of a stable successful team that might pay on the higher end of the spectrum.  They have MLS aspirations and are building some new soccer complex.  Guys that can latch on to good USL teams (Thomas/James) might as well stay there.  CPL teams were able to find the CDN to field decent teams without much trouble.  And with the MLS academies shedding guys that cant quite crack the lineup every season, we'll see the level of play go up and up.  

[Aird25]

Is there much support for CPL teams from the universities in CPL cities, and has there been much advertising there?

[toontownman]

Should definitely be canvassing there. 

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Is there much support for CPL teams from the universities in CPL cities, and has there been much advertising there?

I remember WFC2 attempting to do that, since they were playing out at UBC.  The problem became that the season overlaps with the school year, and you get a lot of kids returning home/not in the area for a big part of it.

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I remember WFC2 attempting to do that, since they were playing out at UBC.  The problem became that the season overlaps with the school year, and you get a lot of kids returning home/not in the area for a big part of it.

I would study or research at UBC libraries during the day and walk over for games, and I felt no one else was doing that same walk. But as said, that was summers, there was much less student presence.

If that stadium was even a bit closer, like at one of the practice fields near the ice rink, it would surely get more public for any event.

[ted]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:07 AM, Aird25 said:

Is there much support for CPL teams from the universities in CPL cities, and has there been much advertising there?

 

On 1/3/2021 at 11:19 AM, toontownman said:

Should definitely be canvassing there. 

There should be, and in the first year here in Victoria PFC did make an effort. They arranged special shuttle bus service from campus. Sadly they didn't support that with effective marketing so the bus was virtually empty and the entire first season of the service was... inconsistent would be the best way to put it.

Overall I think though that the season does not mesh with University schedules. April is exam month, the summer months are a wasteland and by September, which would be a fantastic time to get students doing fun things, the marketing and ticket sales departments had given up and/or were decimated by staffing changes/layoffs to close the season.

What has always struck me as an opportunity missed, is the busloads of international summer students (when that is happening) who are looking for group activities. Fill a couple of busses with these kids and some "guides" to teach them some simple chants and maybe they spend some actual money on food, beverage and merch.

 

[Blackjack15]

Thomas Nef and Peter Galindo are doing a new podcast where they talked about CPL and discussed the CPL Wage dispute: 

Nef confirmed the player's salary is below 20K, saying the league made money at Island Games: https://anchor.fm/northern-ftbol/episodes/Episode-1--Selection-headache-for-John-Herdman-er9ddf

[SpecialK]

Hahah I guess someone is alittle upset. I had a lot of respect for Scott Mitchell but he lost some today what a dumbass Tweet. 

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Hahah I guess someone is alittle upset. I had a lot of respect for Scott Mitchell but he lost some today what a dumbass Tweet. 

I don't understand what's so bad about his rebuttal. He's saying that he's inaccurate.

[Ansem]

Also he's providing more information about how the league functions. 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ansem

[SpecialK]

But Duane is right though, most of CPL leadership are from the CFL and Hamilton 

[SpecialK]

Scott Mitchell

Glen Johnson 

Shaun Guest

Is basically senior leadership according to the website and they all came from CFL and Hamilton. Also David Clanachan ran Tim Hortons, well I forget what CFL team  stadium is named Tim Hortons Stadium and what team has the major sponsorship and huge working relationship???? Oh I forget someone must know hahaha 😂 

Edited March 2, 2021 by SpecialK

[SpecialK]

I think someone is just pissed because they have been called out on their BS and them being cheap. I want the CPL to be a huge success and I am a huge fan but are we a tier 1 league? 2-3rd division in the states and Europe pay more. Jordan Hamilton would have been a star in the CPL but got more money playing in USLC and that’s just a example there are plenty more.  I am not saying to rush things  and we need to be like MLS but I’m sorry this is gonna die if they keep it on the cheap. Players need to be payed more and more teams! 

Edited March 2, 2021 by SpecialK

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

But Duane is right though, most of CPL leadership are from the CFL and Hamilton 

Scott Mitchell explained his role and when you read his tweet and his bio on CPL website, with all do respect, I don't get what's so hard to understand about what he said.

There's a misunderstanding on CSB and CPL separate roles and how they interact. Granted the league could do a better job at explaining it but this nitpicking is really starting to be going too far.

For a guy who says he wants the league to succeed, "Hamilton Mafia" is the wrong way to do it and his attention seeking + victimization are becoming a tired act.

I appreciate his take on the league but he's far from being professional about it. There's a right and wrong way to advocate for changes and players rights but he's been the most unprofessional at it by a mile

This podcast is an example of the right way to advocate for change and be critical of the league while providing more context.

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ansem

[SpecialK]

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Scott Mitchell explained his role and when you read his tweet and his bio on CPL website, with all do respect, I don't get what's so hard to understand about what he said.

There's a misunderstanding on CSB and CPL separate roles and how they interact. Granted the league could do a better job at explaining it but this nitpicking is really starting to be going too far.

For a guy who says he wants the league to succeed, "Hamilton Mafia" is the wrong way to do it and his attention seeking + victimization are becoming a tired act.

I appreciate his take on the league but he's far from being professional about it. There's a right and wrong way to advocate for changes and players rights but he's been the most unprofessional at it by a mile and this 

This podcast is an example of the right way to advocate for change and be critical of the league while providing more context.

 

He’s basically saying the league is full of CFL buddies who are running the show and they don’t care what others think or say and for the most part at the The surface it looks to be true. The league wants to run the league on the cheap and don’t want to bring soccer people and other businesses people or a players union. There is a reason why players are leaving and we really haven’t had any growth with new teams, just talk no action  and York already doing a rebrand ( I like the rebrand). For him to go out and tweet back just looks bad and pity when it’s just an article. Mitchell must be taking a play book out of the CSA. If you don’t kiss our ass you are dead and we will attack you. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by SpecialK

[SpecialK]

Also don’t kid yourself Scott Michell can say oh I’m not with the CPL, I’m with CSB is just BS. They are one and the same. He’s picture and bio are second from the top on the league website there’s a reason why. Come on he’s Young right hand man! He controls all the media rights of Canadian Soccer that includes the CPL ! He’s being a cry baby 

[SpecialK]

If they were smart, they would bring in some more business people, women, and different media people like a John Shannon who ran basically Hockey night in Canada and the NHL network and other things. Also sign a deal with a players union and up the salaries