CPL General

[Bison44]

28 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

This was always my concern. Bad press and damaging the perception of a league that needs all the help it can get right now. I don't think we'll have a clear understanding of this until we see how many butts return to seats, but many people I brought to games seemed to lose interest after hearing star players earned less than they did. That's likely why they kept people in the dark to begin with.

There have been some positive developments that have come out of this, but I still wish this had been done behind closed doors. The league probably should have recognized the union to avoid this.

^^^ This.     Well what exactly have we gained by all this hulabaloo?  The players knew who was making what.  In my business we know who is making what in AB, Sask, North dakota, Europe, Asia etc, etc. This wasnt for the players benefit.  

 Is it so we the fans know??  Did we need to know the specifics??   Didnt we argue for what seemed like years over whether it was 500g or a million, 750 or 1.5?? Hmmm 650-850g on players up to 1.2 including coaches.  Not as low as bird shit, but not as high as a lot of us had hoped.  In the end the product we all saw on the field and enjoyed was the same.  And wages will go up as income goes up and the league grows.  Not exactly complex economics.  Right now I think plenty of guys are happy to have a place to showcase their skills..ie Sissoko was getting no offers until he played in CPL for crap money.  Now he is making better money somewhere else...ummmm wouldnt that be a win win??  This whole thing has made the league look bad and I dont really see the point of it. If it was to force the league into being receptive to a union, couldnt it have been done without making the embarassing the league as a whole??  I hope that it wasnt a back handed stab at the league by a TFC cheerleader.  

 

[RS]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Well what exactly have we gained by all this hulabaloo?

Well, 30 players earned an instant pay raise.

 

[Stryker911]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This was always my concern. Bad press and damaging the perception of a league that needs all the help it can get right now. I don't think we'll have a clear understanding of this until we see how many butts return to seats, but many people I brought to games seemed to lose interest after hearing star players earned less than they did. That's likely why they kept people in the dark to begin with.

There have been some positive developments that have come out of this, but I still wish this had been done behind closed doors. The league probably should have recognized the union to avoid this.

Why would someone lose interest based on how much money someone makes? 

[An Observer]

16 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Why would someone lose interest based on how much money someone makes? 

I suspect its the perception of the quality of the league based on the salaries paid...if you think something is pro-am like, you may be less interested in following it as you think the quality isn't that high.  Most fans probably cant really judge the quality of the league by sight and use other factors like the stadium atmosphere, the professionalism (or lack thereof) of the league and product, is it on tv, etc.  The level of wages fits into that perception.

[CDNFootballer]

16 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Why would someone lose interest based on how much money someone makes? 

Most fans won't care how much players make. I interacted with many the first season enlightening them about Canada's new D1 Premier League and none asked how much the players were making.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I suspect the league was also pressured by Mediapro to sort things out. And maybe even Atlético, as they work together (Atleti also has higher ups in media production). They are both international brands and they would not benefit from this sort of bad press and public image. Apart from that, they are both, it would seem,  ahead of the CPL in the reasoning of this. I won't say "ethics", as many may question some unethical practices from Mediapro in some countries. So let's say "reasoning".

Something I posted here months ago and almost everyone ignored: Mediapro fostered the deal for Spanish women's club football when the players had already gone on strike for a minimum wage and conditions deal, in late 2019. And Atletico was one of the clubs that accepted the players' demands and supported them from the start.

Mediapro had controlled the Spanish rights for the womens' league since 2012, and had just won a new tender for them. Stil, as the league raised its profile and fanbase, the pressure from the players' union rose. I won't go into the details, but they involved full year contracts, health coverage year-round, maternity leave and conditions, some benefits for topping up senior player contracts, and then a modest minimum salary. Of course the top teams could handle this, but many others have less resources and found it hard. Mediapro, which was already paying a relatively low amount for the tv rights, just gifted 1.5 million euros to the Spanish federation, with specific instructions for the federation to use it to pay needy clubs and get them to accept the deal. It was not even contractual, it was a one-off designated good-will payment. I think the context suggests it was on ethical grounds. 

Fast forward a similar situation or brewing a year later in Canada. I don't think Mediapro, paying what they are paying, was going to sit back and accept official Clanachan stubborness on the question. Even with no strike in the air. Did they throw more money in to broker this? Doubt it. But what they are already committed to could have been hinged on this. They have done it before.

[Aird25]

21 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Why would someone lose interest based on how much money someone makes? 

I'd assume because that's the easiest way for people that don't know the sport to assess quality. 

3 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Most fans won't care how much players make. I interacted with many the first season enlightening them about Canada's new D1 Premier League and none asked how much the players were making.

Someone from every group I brought to games asked about salaries, apart from my parents. People know it's a global sport and they want to know how a new league fits into that

[Aird25]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I suspect the league was also pressured by Mediapro to sort things out. And maybe even Atlético, as they work together (Atleti also has higher ups in media production). They are both international brands and they would not benefit from this sort of bad press and public image. Apart from that, they are both, it would seem,  ahead of the CPL in the reasoning of this. I won't say "ethics", as many may question some unethical practices from Mediapro in some countries. So let's say "reasoning".

Something I posted here months ago and almost everyone ignored: Mediapro fostered the deal for Spanish women's club football when the players had already gone on strike for a minimum wage and conditions deal, in late 2019. And Atletico was one of the clubs that accepted the players' demands and supported them from the start.

Mediapro had controlled the Spanish rights for the womens' league since 2012, and had just won a new tender for them. Stil, as the league raised its profile and fanbase, the pressure from the players' union rose. I won't go into the details, but they involved full year contracts, health coverage year-round, maternity leave and conditions, some benefits for topping up senior player contracts, and then a modest minimum salary. Of course the top teams could handle this, but many others have less resources and found it hard. Mediapro, which was already paying a relatively low amount for the tv rights, just gifted 1.5 million euros to the Spanish federation, with specific instructions for the federation to use it to pay needy clubs and get them to accept the deal. It was not even contractual, it was a one-off designated good-will payment. I think the context suggests it was on ethical grounds. 

Fast forward a similar situation or brewing a year later in Canada. I don't think Mediapro, paying what they are paying, was going to sit back and accept official Clanachan stubborness on the question. Even with no strike in the air. Did they throw more money in to broker this? Doubt it. But what they are already committed to could have been hinged on this. They have done it before.

Good point. My concerns extended to sponshorship and corporate involvement as well

[Stryker911]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I'd assume because that's the easiest way for people that don't know the sport to assess quality. 

Someone from every group I brought to games asked about salaries, apart from my parents. People know it's a global sport and they want to know how a new league fits into that

Interesting. I have been turned off from MLB and the NBA for the opposite reason. Someone making the average person's annual salary from pitching a couple innings or making a few jump shots, makes it very hard for me to want to support them.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

Interesting. I have been turned off from MLB and the NBA for the opposite reason. Someone making the average person's annual salary from pitching a couple innings or making a few jump shots, makes it very hard for me to want to support them.

Oh I don’t disagree. I just think that when people pay to see an event many want to believe it’s of high importance. Sadly the money involved is a factor in that and this constant focus on the low salaries could have a negative influence. I hope I’m wrong and more people go to support the players like yourself. This focus on ‘poverty wages’ might actually help if that’s the case

Edited March 10, 2021 by Aird25

[The Real Marc]

delete already answered

Edited March 10, 2021 by The Real Marc

[Bison44]

^^^ Exactly.  And low balling the wages of a start up league is a way of not so subtly slagging the product on the field.  Bottom line, the wages are pretty close to the "middle ground" numbers we all were bouncing around before the league started.  Wages are not going to get higher if the teams lose money every year.  And we need owners and players to pull together and get more people into stadiums, more eyes on screens etc so the league can be successful  So lets be grownups about talking/working with the union and try and all row in the same direction.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Anybody trying to argue that these salary bumps have damaged the league should bear in mind that the total cost of running a team is said to be $4 million per season in the media stories accompanying this. The cost of doing this is unlikely to reach even 100k per team. Having a minimum set at this sort of level is a red line in terms of being fully professional and that's critical for how the knowledgable portion of the soccer community will perceive this league in the larger markets they have targeted. This should be viewed as a necessary investment in the product that is an unavoidable expense if they still want to be treated as a D1.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

Straw man alert!!  

[yellowsweatygorilla]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Anybody trying to argue that these salary bumps have damaged the league should bear in mind that the total cost of running a team is said to be $4 million per season in the media stories accompanying this. The cost of doing this is unlikely to reach even 100k per team. Having a minimum set at this sort of level is a red line in terms of being fully professional and that's critical for how the knowledgable portion of the soccer community will perceive this league in the larger markets they have targeted. This should be viewed as a necessary investment in the product that is an unavoidable expense if they still want to be treated as a D1.

And to be precise, this averages out to at most $37,500 per team ($300,000 tops for the entire league assuming all 30 were making $10k divided by 8 teams). I say at most in terms of the fact that I know many players were getting paid $9-10k contracts (that said, this number could be even lower since there will be quite a few getting paid more than $10k but less than $22k). Now of course, some teams like Valour and York have way more of the bottom end contracts so they'll have a higher expenditure, but ultimately, the point stands that the implementation of this minimum salary has very little impact on overall costs.

 

 

[Ansem]

Find it fascinating how little those bonuses are talked about... or that there's a 15% pay bump whenever an option is taken by the club on a players contract...

Just easier to demonize the whole thing. As much as I can see where the league can do better - very little talks about things it did right

[Dominic94]

Not to be missed is that salary is a high percentage of revenue, and they aren’t making money. So the costs outside or the salary cap are where they’re losing money, there wasn’t really an excuse to not have a liveable wage. I’m sure teams lost money with the pandemic but I don’t think anyone is losing millions a year as some have claimed.

 

at 4M per year to run the team, I’d venture maybe 2M max, but that seems high.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The best quality leagues and clubs have player salaries as a high % of total spending. Over 50% and usually over 60%. 

Then, if you look at speculative lower tiers, there is a similar breakdown: the clubs are a bit lean, their admin and offices and even stadiums, but because they are speculating on promotion to a higher division, the money has to be on the pitch. And if they can promote, they can pick up spending on everything else as well.

Go a step further down, to lower pro and semipro, you have clubs that just to exist and maintain their infrastructure, technical staff, travel, have to focus budget on that. CPL is closer to this model. It is a protected business interest, there is set income from Mediapro and sponsors, no motivation to promote or even really to do well (at least not yet). And in a typical Canadian way they have to look like there are serious by having suited staff and nice offices and the like, and they have spent on that.

This is why establishing these minimum conditions for players is important, as otherwise, objectively, the clubs in CPL have no real reason to care about all that, they could compete offering semipro conditions and non-playing staff would still get paid their market-value salaries.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

...at 4M per year to run the team, I’d venture maybe 2M max, but that seems high.

Suspect the cost of live broadcasts for 15 home games on Onesoccer are included in that number. It's generally assumed Mediapro are picking up the tab for that but it was originally going to be done in house.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Find it fascinating how little those bonuses are talked about... or that there's a 15% pay bump whenever an option is taken by the club on a players contract...

I guess we'd need to know more about how much and how the bonuses work. And how often clubs pick up the option. Whitecaps were notorious for having a high "final year" option on their contracts to and then not picking it up.

[Dominic94]

Looks like the e sport tournament will be back.

 

 

 

you’d think the league, the voyageurs cup and some mini NA champions league would be in FIFA by now given the game is made in Vancouver.

Clanachan said the league would go above and beyond when the time comes, but EA had to earn it.... makes me think EA offered some shit ass price for the rights.

when it does happen I’m expecting an exclusive license to the league, some story mode to go along with it (becoming the next Davies, having to try out with your local can pl team) and all the stadiums.

the past 2 editions of fifa have gotten hammered on leagues and licenses.

they dropped the Russia league, the Serie B, the Czech league.... I’d rather all fake teams then no league at all anyways yea sooner or later the league should be in the game.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

when it does happen I’m expecting an exclusive license to the league, some story mode to go along with it (becoming the next Davies, having to try out with your local can pl team) and all the stadiums.

Knowing people who work at EA, I would not expect any of these beyond some of the stadiums. They sure as hell aren't doing a story mode just for the league.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Looks like the e sport tournament will be back.

 

 

 

you’d think the league, the voyageurs cup and some mini NA champions league would be in FIFA by now given the game is made in Vancouver.

Clanachan said the league would go above and beyond when the time comes, but EA had to earn it.... makes me think EA offered some shit ass price for the rights.

when it does happen I’m expecting an exclusive license to the league, some story mode to go along with it (becoming the next Davies, having to try out with your local can pl team) and all the stadiums.

the past 2 editions of fifa have gotten hammered on leagues and licenses.

they dropped the Russia league, the Serie B, the Czech league.... I’d rather all fake teams then no league at all anyways yea sooner or later the league should be in the game.

I don't think the issue is that EA isn't offering enough ... if anything CanPL would be willing to pay EA Sports to include the league. EA just isn't interested.

It's not like SI Games is paying anything for the CanPL licence. In fact, it's the other way around - why do you think the league has had to so heavily promote Football Manager? And remember it doesn't actually cost SI Games much money to add the league. I mean it's volunteers like me that do all the research and add all the players for them (all I get is a copy of the game/access to alpha). Coding the league is less than a day's work (I would know because I use the exact same software for the Canadian Megapatch).

[Dominic94]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Knowing people who work at EA, I would not expect any of these beyond some of the stadiums. They sure as hell aren't doing a story mode just for the league.

Off topic but can you confirm that nhl is finally getting a revamp for 2022 😂

 

listen it would be cool given that the league is willing to go above and beyond.

 

anytgint you can say regarding the league being involved in the game etc ? 

[Dominic94]

3 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I don't think the issue is that EA isn't offering enough ... if anything CanPL would be willing to pay EA Sports to include the league. EA just isn't interested.

It's not like SI Games is paying anything for the CanPL licence. In fact, it's the other way around - why do you think the league has had to so heavily promote Football Manager? And remember it doesn't actually cost SI Games much money to add the league. I mean it's volunteers like me that do all the research and add all the players for them (all I get is a copy of the game/access to alpha). Coding the league is less than a day's work (I would know because I use the exact same software for the Canadian Megapatch).

I thought they bought the license for the legaue.