CPL General

[dyslexic nam]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:27 PM, dyslexic nam said:

I’m not saying I just randomly picked a couple of them, but if someone undeservedly gets the esports award I may been a factor.  

#MyGuyWon

 

[Big_M]

Canadian Premier League announces plans for CPL-U SPORTS Draft in January 2021

[Bison44]

I was wondering about this.  I saw MLS had a sort of unoffical combine in Nov for American NCAA kids.  

[Stryker911]

Although it ended in disappointment I was pleasantly surprised with how well a CPL team did in regards to other CONCACAF leagues. Along the way they beat a top 2 Panama team and played pretty tight with a top 3 Honduras team. Over a 2 leg tie I think they could have beat them.

For comparison, Montreal lost to another top 3 Honduras team and TFC got destroyed by a top 2 Panama team recently. Although still disappointed with the Archaie result I was happy with how evenly matched they were last night. Only year 2 of the league and a CPL team can compete with other top leagues in the region. I would hope in another 2 or 3 seasons we pass them as we continue to grow.

[Kent]

13 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Although it ended in disappointment I was pleasantly surprised with how well a CPL team did in regards to other CONCACAF leagues. Along the way they beat a top 2 Panama team and played pretty tight with a top 3 Honduras team. Over a 2 leg tie I think they could have beat them.

For comparison, Montreal lost to another top 3 Honduras team and TFC got destroyed by a top 2 Panama team recently. Although still disappointed with the Archaie result I was happy with how evenly matched they were last night. Only year 2 of the league and a CPL team can compete with other top leagues in the region. I would hope in another 2 or 3 seasons we pass them as we continue to grow.

Agreed. The fact that it happened all on the road and last nights game was nearly 3 months after their last CPL game just makes it more impressive. Hopefully next year they can go back to 2 legs to make it more fair, but of course we can’t count on another miracle draw like this year.

[yothat2]

Can CPL teams trade international spots for additional usports picks or compensation ?

Can the league force Fc Edmonton to open up their academy players to the rest of the league ?

Are trades or inter-league swaps allowed?

Edited December 12, 2020 by yothat2

[Ansem]

19 minutes ago, yothat2 said:

Can CPL teams trade international spots for additional usports picks or compensation ?

Can the league force Fc Edmonton to open up their academy players to the rest of the league ?

Are trades or inter-league swaps allowed?

It looks like a no to all the above 

[Stryker911]

I dont see why inter league loans couldn't happen

[Dominic94]

Is it safe to say the level of play is higher than USL Champ ?

[toontownman]

5 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Is it safe to say the level of play is higher than USL Champ ?

I havent seen that much USL to comment but thought people that did watch it thought CPL was approaching that level. Hopefully we can get fans back and more sponsorship to raise the salary cap to be competitive with USL wages. Think that's a couple of years off given the pandemic.

[deschamp86]

10 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Is it safe to say the level of play is higher than USL Champ ?

I don't watch a lot of USL but based on how players have performed that have played in both I would think that USL Championship is ahead of CPL by a very slim margin

[youllneverwalkalone]

There is evidence in both directions. Skyler Thomas and Jordan Murrell always first on the sheet in USL looked lost in CPL. As much as Bustos seems reborn in CPL, that could have to do with a lot of things. I think you need to look to the older established players and see how they do in both. 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

We've had discussion on here about a wider range of quality on USL Champ teams.  The worst teams well below CanPL with CanPL teams falling somewhere in top 2/3s to top 1/2 of league.  But meanwhile those ambitious USL teams like Indy and Tampa Bay still above CanPL, probably for budgetary reasons.

Also different styles, I think CanPL tends to be a little more possession based, which favours Bustos, whereas USL is still a little more speed and athleticism which favours a back like Skylar Thomas.  Obviously with lots of variation within each league for individual teams.

[fil]

In case someone has missed it, CPL stadiums in minecraft...

I posted this link on cpl reddit and it is the highest upvotes that I have ever had for a link. The crossover from videogames and soccer is higher than I thought.

[CDNFootballer]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:53 PM, toontownman said:

I havent seen that much USL to comment but thought people that did watch it thought CPL was approaching that level. Hopefully we can get fans back and more sponsorship to raise the salary cap to be competitive with USL wages. Think that's a couple of years off given the pandemic.

USL has had pretty poor wages paid even up until recently, they had a club paying a player no $ in 2019 and have had some real horror stories with low wages and how players would make more working at McDonalds than playing in USL.

There are a few exceptions from a few of the top teams but majority pay poor wages with the lower scale being lower than CPL which has more of a balance overall than the D2 USL-C apparently and is already competitive with many  USL C clubs having wages lower than the CPL salary cap already.

[yothat2]

3 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

USL has had pretty poor wages paid even up until recently, they had a club paying a player no $ in 2019 and have had some real horror stories with low wages and how players would make more working at McDonalds than playing in USL.

There are a few exceptions from a few of the top teams but majority pay poor wages with the lower scale being lower than CPL which has more of a balance overall than the D2 USL-C apparently and is already competitive with many  USL C clubs having wages lower than the CPL salary cap already.

MLS has scrapped all the majority of the top second division clubs except maybe the cosmos & rhinos, rowdies ..

[Ansem]

19 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

USL has had pretty poor wages paid even up until recently, they had a club paying a player no $ in 2019 and have had some real horror stories with low wages and how players would make more working at McDonalds than playing in USL.

There are a few exceptions from a few of the top teams but majority pay poor wages with the lower scale being lower than CPL which has more of a balance overall than the D2 USL-C apparently and is already competitive with many  USL C clubs having wages lower than the CPL salary cap already.

My perception of USL-C is that outside of clubs "auditioning" for and MLS expansion... it's not great.

MLS takes the top clubs and with MLS Next, the top young talents too. Making Canadians Internationals will just push more guys to join CPL.

I read the same horror stories about USL pay and not covering health costs on top of that.

I find CPL being the better league all around.

USL should absolutely consider merging with NISA and NPSL (i think that's the acronym) and have pro/rel. Get it functional and potential apply for D1 status. I'm baffled by the lack of cooperation between USSF and all the leagues... not a great way to operate.

USL Championship wanting a CCL berth

CSA must resist that path at all costs. 

Off topic. I cringe hearing Bontis talking about putting a NSWL team in Canada. The right approach is 

1-Close the door to further USSF involvement. Unless that's crystal clear, investors will always hold out for a potential investment in the US. You have to make it 1000% clear, as far as football is concerned - it's Canada or nothing 

2-The lack of vision and leadership on a women's league is truly SHOCKING. The CSA should sit the 3 MLS clubs & CSB/CPL cubs and work on a women's league. We could have potentially launched a 11 team league with existing infrastructure.

No if or buts.

Anyways, Merry Christmas 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Ansem

[Cheeta]

On 12/25/2020 at 4:25 PM, fil said:

In case someone has missed it, CPL stadiums in minecraft...

I posted this link on cpl reddit and it is the highest upvotes that I have ever had for a link. The crossover from videogames and soccer is higher than I thought.

Ha!  Beauty.  

Because football is supposed to be fun. 

[SthMelbRed]

On 12/26/2020 at 9:25 AM, fil said:

In case someone has missed it, CPL stadiums in minecraft...

I posted this link on cpl reddit and it is the highest upvotes that I have ever had for a link. The crossover from videogames and soccer is higher than I thought.

I had a 40-minute tutorial on all things Minecraft off our friends' 11-year old daughter at Christmas. It was very enlightening. 😄 

[Watchmen]

22 hours ago, Ansem said:

My perception of USL-C is that outside of clubs "auditioning" for and MLS expansion... it's not great.

MLS takes the top clubs and with MLS Next, the top young talents too. Making Canadians Internationals will just push more guys to join CPL.

I read the same horror stories about USL pay and not covering health costs on top of that.

I find CPL being the better league all around.

USL should absolutely consider merging with NISA and NPSL (i think that's the acronym) and have pro/rel. Get it functional and potential apply for D1 status. I'm baffled by the lack of cooperation between USSF and all the leagues... not a great way to operate.

USL Championship wanting a CCL berth

CSA must resist that path at all costs. 

Off topic. I cringe hearing Bontis talking about putting a NSWL team in Canada. The right approach is 

1-Close the door to further USSF involvement. Unless that's crystal clear, investors will always hold out for a potential investment in the US. You have to make it 1000% clear, as far as football is concerned - it's Canada or nothing 

2-The lack of vision and leadership on a women's league is truly SHOCKING. The CSA should sit the 3 MLS clubs & CSB/CPL cubs and work on a women's league. We could have potentially launched a 11 team league with existing infrastructure.

No if or buts.

Anyways, Merry Christmas 

The USL already has multiple tiers and could impliment pro/rel if they wanted to.  Further, what makes you think the NISA or NPSL want to merge with the USL?

Regarding the potential women's league, I'm not at all shocked by the lack of progress on it.  People don't like to hear, but it's a money losing proposition.  The CPL teams are losing money and still trying to find their footing, and the attempt to unionize was met with "you should be thankful we have wealthy benefactors".   Your plan of have the 3 MLS and 8 CPL clubs would result in all of them incurring additional loses, something only MLSE might be willing to realistically do.  So you can stand around and insist that "it's Canada or nothing" but the end result is likely to be "nothing" and Canada falling further behind.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

The USL already has multiple tiers and could impliment pro/rel if they wanted to.  Further, what makes you think the NISA or NPSL want to merge with the USL?

Regarding the potential women's league, I'm not at all shocked by the lack of progress on it.  People don't like to hear, but it's a money losing proposition.  The CPL teams are losing money and still trying to find their footing, and the attempt to unionize was met with "you should be thankful we have wealthy benefactors".   Your plan of have the 3 MLS and 8 CPL clubs would result in all of them incurring additional loses, something only MLSE might be willing to realistically do.  So you can stand around and insist that "it's Canada or nothing" but the end result is likely to be "nothing" and Canada falling further behind.

USL leaves me "meh"...

 

Women's football:

On the men side, we opted for a "top to bottom" approch by launching a D1 with no D2 and incompleted D3.

For the women, "bottom to top approach" might be the solution. L10 expanding on the women's side, Quebec having one as well and BC wanting all clubs joining it to launch a women's side - let's work on a strong D3 foundation.

This provide a place for the players leaving University or making it to that tier by other means to be more visible and facilitate their transition overseas.

Eventually we build a D2 of the interest for D1 isn't there yet.

What we should not be doing is surrendering our 3 most lucrative markets to the NWSL making a Canadian league a fantasy for decades to come.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

USL leaves me "meh"...

 

Women's football:

On the men side, we opted for a "top to bottom" approch by launching a D1 with no D2 and incompleted D3.

For the women, "bottom to top approach" might be the solution. L10 expanding on the women's side, Quebec having one as well and BC wanting all clubs joining it to launch a women's side - let's work on a strong D3 foundation.

This provide a place for the players leaving University or making it to that tier by other means to be more visible and facilitate their transition overseas.

Eventually we build a D2 of the interest for D1 isn't there yet.

What we should not be doing is surrendering our 3 most lucrative markets to the NWSL making a Canadian league a fantasy for decades to come.

 

Your plan still like leaves a Canadian league as a fantasy for decades to come, while also leaving the Canadian women playing for free.  The reality is that no owners are stepping up to fund women's soccer at this time except for a potential NWSL team.  If that's what gets the women paid, so be it.  I'd rather a group of our national team players were getting the chance to be fully professional. And let's not ignore that it was TFC's launch and success (off the pitch initially, if not on it) that got other potential owners to look at soccer as a potentially viable investment in Canada.  You have the CPL only because of MLS's success here, and never think otherwise.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Your plan still like leaves a Canadian league as a fantasy for decades to come, while also leaving the Canadian women playing for free.  The reality is that no owners are stepping up to fund women's soccer at this time except for a potential NWSL team.  If that's what gets the women paid, so be it.  I'd rather a group of our national team players were getting the chance to be fully professional. And let's not ignore that it was TFC's launch and success (off the pitch initially, if not on it) that got other potential owners to look at soccer as a potentially viable investment in Canada.  You have the CPL only because of MLS's success here, and never think otherwise.

A strong D3 system (regional which already exists) for women should be doable - D1 / NWSL or not. An upgraded D3 system under the CSB umbrella could make scouting our players easier giving them a better stage to perform, increasing their chances to get noticed and transferred elsewhere where they will get paid.

No - it's not the NWSL or UEFA network of leagues but it's called "growing pains", the same NWSL had to go through to become what it is today. We have to stop this attitude of that being beneath us..

Other hings to consider.

Bontis said he's working on getting a team fine, I seriously doubt he has people lined up for a team. He "wants" to make it happen.

Roster rules: NWSL would imposed the same roster rules as MLS from what I've heard.  Contrarily to the men, the American pool is so much more deeper on the women's side so you have to expect the squad to be somewhat American heavy if they count as domestic on Canadian soil.

Also, what are we trying to do here, win or Participe? How having 1 NWSL team with Americans as domestics on the team while Canadians are internationals in the rest of the league wins us Gold medals and World Cups? Let alone, keeps us in the top 10 while others are quickly improving...

I'd love to understand how that works because 13 years later, we haven't made the Hex, no olympic games or U20 World Cups (If I'm not wrong) and last time i checked, results matters.

I don't hate the idea but unless, we can transfer the NWSL club to a Canadian D1 league once it launches...it's a mistake in my opinion because it makes it that much harder to get to that objective of a coast to coast league.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Roster rules: NWSL would imposed the same roster rules as MLS from what I've heard.  Contrarily to the men, the American pool is so much more deeper on the women's side so you have to expect the squad to be somewhat American heavy if they count as domestic on Canadian soil.

I would expect the NWSL team to be the defacto women's national team, outside of players in Europe or a few other's here and there (Sinclair isn't leaving Portland, for example).  If the NWSL was attempting to force American players on to the team, then sure, that's a different discussion.  But I don't think the NWSL is a strong enough league to dictate that, and if they're able to get another strong owner/market, I think they'll take it.

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Also, what are we trying to do here, win or Participe? How having 1 NWSL team with Americans as domestics on the team while Canadians are internationals in the rest of the league wins us Gold medals and World Cups? Let alone, keeps us in the top 10 while others are quickly improving...

I'd love to understand how that works because 13 years later, we haven't made the Hex, no olympic games or U20 World Cups (If I'm not wrong) and last time i checked, results matters.

I know you're making the parallel to MLS here, but take a look at the landscape in men's soccer from 13 years ago to now.  The Canadian men's national team is the strongest it's been since the 1990's and there's the very real feeling that they're on their way to being a legitimate top 4/5 team in the region.  Results matter, but they were never going to come overnight and it was always going to take time for an absolutely abysmal development system to start churning out players.  

And again, you're wondering how 1 NWSL team helps Canada while others are quickly improving.  Well, how does zero professional teams help Canada while others are improving quickly and no one in Canada is looking to invest?  If you want investment, you're probably going to need proof of concept (again, like MLS paving the way for the CPL) and you're busy shooting that down immediately. 

I should say, I'm in agreement that the CSA should be trying to establish D3 teams at the regional level.  I just don't think that's in conflict with an NWSL team also being established.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Watchmen

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

I would expect the NWSL team to be the defacto women's national team, outside of players in Europe or a few other's here and there (Sinclair isn't leaving Portland, for example).

Many expected TFC to be just that on the men's side but that is not what happened. You have no guarantee that that's how things would go for an NWSL team in Canada

2:20 to 3:58 - History will repeat itself.

 

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

If the NWSL was attempting to force American players on to the team, then sure, that's a different discussion.  But I don't think the NWSL is a strong enough league to dictate that, and if they're able to get another strong owner/market, I think they'll take it.

"They'll take it"... no one knows that.  

There still have plenty of big markets available with marquee investors wanting to invest in the US. It's doubtful that we're a priority on their list.

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

I know you're making the parallel to MLS here, but take a look at the landscape in men's soccer from 13 years ago to now.  The Canadian men's national team is the strongest it's been since the 1990's

No love for the 2000 team who beat Mexico and Colombia back to back to win the Gold Cup? There was quality on that squad too

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

there's the very real feeling that they're on their way to being a legitimate top 4/5 team in the region.

Not making the 2022 World Cup would mean that it would have took cohosting  the 2026 World Cup to play in one and for and the tournament’s expansion for us to maybe becoming recurring participants 

Results does matter and 14 years of failures is unacceptable in most parts 

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Results matter, but they were never going to come overnight and it was always going to take time for an absolutely abysmal development system to start churning out players.  

Floro than Zambrano had the same comments...

The problem isn't the talent... the lack of domestic league and minutes at pro level is an obvious disadvantage.

Having only 3 pro clubs with limited minutes for Canadians is like trying to pay back your maxed credit card with minimum payments. That won't get you far

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

And again, you're wondering how 1 NWSL team helps Canada while others are quickly improving.  Well, how does zero professional teams help Canada while others are improving quickly and no one in Canada is looking to invest?  If you want investment, you're probably going to need proof of concept (again, like MLS paving the way for the CPL) and you're busy shooting that down immediately. 

We can improve the foundation (D3) using assets like MediaPro who holds the rights to L1O (including women) to build it up.

NWSL took 8 years to become what it is and to they had leadership at the USSF to facilitate it. Unfortunately, we don't have it here. Instead of working with CSB and CPL who have demonstrated that they could find business partners, we have the excentric new CSA guys willing to give NWSL everything that they want.

To me...that's a lack of leadership at the top.

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I should say, I'm in agreement that the CSA should be trying to establish D3 teams at the regional level.  I just don't think that's in conflict with an NWSL team also being established.

I don't hate the idea but we need a clause making mandatory the transfer of that club into a Canadian league

If that was guarantee, I'd support it