WCQ: Jamaica vs Canada - Sunday, Oct 10, 6pm Eastern / 3pm Pacific - Kingston, Jamaica

[lamptern]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I was dissapointed in Brym as well.  Usually the kid coming on with 8 minutes left runs his guts out chasing the ball and putting pressure on the mexicans trying to move the ball up.  He did lope around like a deer for a lot of the time he was on.  I thought he blew it, guys who had already put in 80+min at altitude were running harder than he was.  When Millar came on he worked hard up and down his wing.  Brym didnt look like he was trying to win himself more call ups.  

Agreed. Brym showed exact the same as he did in Olympic qualifier. Actually NO SHOW would summarize that better. If he can't bring an intensity attitude to a WCQ game, he absolutely doesn't belong to this group.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

18 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

By gawd, that’s Russell Teibert’s music! *runs away*

No matter how you rate him, Teibert is better than an empty spot on the bench.

....and we will have two of them!

[Cblake]

I still can not believe Canada has not won in Jamaica since 1988, a a mere 5 decades ago, 4-0 victory in Kingston on April 5th of that year. That simply has to change tomorrow and I expect it will. 

[rkomar]

2 minutes ago, Cblake said:

I still can not believe Canada has not won in Jamaica since 1988, a a mere 5 decades ago, 4-0 victory in Kingston on April 5th of that year. That simply has to change tomorrow and I expect it will. 

So, was 2018 two decades ago?

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

I'm getting a bit concerned about our razor thin numbers in center midfield. Given that Piette has not seen much of the field in 4 games and there is a  drop off in quality going from Oso or Kaye to Fraser. With Atiba injured and Arfield apparently in the rear view mirror, our once vaunted midfield is an injury/card suspension from being a potential problem area. 

With all due respect our numbers in central midfield would be at the absolute bottom of my worries for our squad. “Razor thin” is not even close to accurate.
 

Available for Sunday we have Osorio, Kaye, Eustaquio, Piette, Fraser and Wotherspoon. I’d be comfortable with any combination of those 6 starting. This is our deepest position.
 

Plus in the remote chance that something happens to 3 of those players then Wednesday we have Hutchinson potentially returning. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by CanadaFan123

[narduch]

We've only ever played 3 WCQ in Jamaica so it's not like we've had tons of chances to get a win. Always time for a first 

 

[PegCityCam]

5 hours ago, top cheese said:

Certainly some interesting lineup decisions for sure. I don’t imagines Davies will start. I do think one of the impressive things about this group is they adapt to change quickly. Whomever fills in for the players whose out does his job. 

I suspect It will be 4-4-2 again that can shift to another system. I can see

adekugbe.     Miller.    Henry.   Johnston

millar.     Kaye.     Fraser.     Wotherspoon 

Hoillett.    Brym

 

to start. I think brym was really good against Mexico when he came on. I can see them giving him the start to lead the line. I also wonder would they give Cornelius a start

 

4 hours ago, Club Linesman said:

Agree with most. I am thinking Herdman goes slightly more offensive.  Jamaica has some issues at the back.  Also didn’t think Brym was more than adequate in his brief run out.

could see a 4-3-3

maybe Cornelius for Miller

maybe Piette for Fraser

front 3 of Millar. Hoilett and Shaff.

"There is no way you honestly believe these are possibilities"...my thoughts on your attack lineups before reading any other reactions to Brym. C'mon y'all, you can't seriously think Herdman will trot out anything less up front than Hoilett and one (or both) of Davies/David can you? Millar is the ONLY option to step into a starting role in place of our tops and it's not even worth debating. Apologies for my bluntness but I just can't see the logic, even with my somewhat limited knowledge of the finer facets of footy.

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, PegCityCam said:

 

"There is no way you honestly believe these are possibilities"...my thoughts on your attack lineups before reading any other reactions to Brym. C'mon y'all, you can't seriously think Herdman will trot out anything less up front than Hoilett and one (or both) of Davies/David can you? Millar is the ONLY option to step into a starting role in place of our tops and it's not even worth debating. Apologies for my bluntness but I just can't see the logic, even with my somewhat limited knowledge of the finer facets of footy.

You’re absolutely right. Just look at our past few windows. Herdman isn’t into wholesale rotation. He’ll rotate a few players and ride a few.

 

in other news, Jamaica remains a mess. 
https://amp.jamaicaobserver.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20211009/ARTICLE/310099968&Show=0&profile=1498&__twitter_impression=true

[narduch]

Cbc interviewed a journo from Jamaica

 

[footballfreak]

Jamaica really don’t have the depth to hang for 90 minutes if we rotate our squad and use our subs properly. But they showed, albeit with a great deal of luck, that they could keep USA/Mexico off the scoresheet for 45 minutes. Against both, they allowed a goal in the first 5 minutes of the second half.

I understand the aversion against full-scale squad rotation, but I truly think we’re better off starting with mostly fresh rotation guys and trusting them to shepherd us through the first half, or even get a lead, and then sub in the big guns only if absolutely needed for the win. We keep talking about squad depth, but that doesn’t work if we run the same 11-14 guys into the ground. We needed to rest guys somewhere, and since it wasn’t in Mexico, it needs to be in Jamaica. You can’t go into the Panama game with a tired Davies/David and potentially a suspended Eustaquio. You just can’t. We have no reason to believe help is coming from any of the injured guys. We need to trust the guys that are here. 

                                Shaffelburg 

Millar                                                              Hoilett  

              Fraser - Piette - Wotherspoon/Osorio

Adekugbe.      Miller/Cornelius.       Henry.       ZBG

                                 Crepeau

 

Alternatively:

                    Shaffelburg/Millar           Hoilett                                                   

                 Fraser - Piette - Wotherspoon/Osorio

Adekugbe.                                                             ZBG

                           Miller    Cornelius.       Henry.     

                                 Crepeau

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by footballfreak

[Club Linesman]

This is why many on here were thinking that Herdman should be strategic with his lineup vs Mexico.  3 games in 7 days across time zones and including hours of travel make it extremely challenging to start the same lineup in each game.  Then add in the forced sub with the yellows, the injured guys on the roster?!?, and pressure from the club teams, Phonzie, and the must win game is the Panama game.  So his lineup choices for tomorrow will be very interesting.  It may not be as much rotation as I indicated but I would be surprised if he goes all gunners except Millar as per Peg City.  We will know in 22.5 hours.

[narduch]

Captain Obvious post

 

[Scottie]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

I still can not believe Canada has not won in Jamaica since 1988, a a mere 5 decades ago, 4-0 victory in Kingston on April 5th of that year. That simply has to change tomorrow and I expect it will. 

As someone born in 1988 I find your wording to be very concerning here...

[Kadenge]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Captain Obvious post

 

So we have a squad of 24 with 3 on card suspensions and 3 keepers.. that's 18 field players. Unless there are injuries/recovery issues, I just dont see JH making major changes other than for Tajon (Jnr), Vitoria (Henry) and Laryea (ZBG). If Jamaica is indeed having issues both on and off the field Herdman  will want to go for it in the first half. If we can get an early goal, Jamaica may just throw in the towel with no fans in the stadium. We have got to go for a win and our depth/home advantage should carry us over Panama. 

[Floortom]

48 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Jamaica really don’t have the depth to hang for 90 minutes if we rotate our squad and use our subs properly. But they showed, albeit with a great deal of luck, that they could keep USA/Mexico off the scoresheet for 45 minutes. Against both, they allowed a goal in the first 5 minutes of the second half.

I understand the aversion against full-scale squad rotation, but I truly think we’re better off starting with mostly fresh rotation guys and trusting them to shepherd us through the first half, or even get a lead, and then sub in the big guns only if absolutely needed for the win. We keep talking about squad depth, but that doesn’t work if we run the same 11-14 guys into the ground. We needed to rest guys somewhere, and since it wasn’t in Mexico, it needs to be in Jamaica. You can’t go into the Panama game with a tired Davies/David and potentially a suspended Eustaquio. You just can’t. We have no reason to believe help is coming from any of the injured guys. We need to trust the guys that are here. 

                                Shaffelburg 

Millar                                                              Hoilett  

              Fraser - Piette - Wotherspoon/Osorio

Adekugbe.      Miller/Cornelius.       Henry.       ZBG

                                 Crepeau

 

Alternatively:

                    Shaffelburg/Millar           Hoilett                                                   

                 Fraser - Piette - Wotherspoon/Osorio

Adekugbe.                                                             ZBG

                           Miller    Cornelius.       Henry.     

                                 Crepeau

 

 

 

Shaffelburg can’t play up top - he doesn’t have that ability. He’s a “bomb down the flank and and cross” guy. Asking him to play in that position would be a disaster. I would rather stick Brym there tbh. But this is all moot as I’m almost sure Hoilett will be leading the line 

[footballfreak]

6 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Shaffelburg can’t play up top - he doesn’t have that ability. He’s a “bomb down the flank and and cross” guy. Asking him to play in that position would be a disaster. I would rather stick Brym there tbh. But this is all moot as I’m almost sure Hoilett will be leading the line 

Fair. I wasn’t sure how he plays and he’s listed as a forward. We need someone up top who’s not David. Swapping Hoilett and Shaff doesn’t change much. Hoilett is probably our best option to unlock a low block, and he’ll last longer in the middle than on either wing.

Edited October 9, 2021 by footballfreak

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, rkomar said:

So, was 2018 two decades ago?

I included this decade in my count, my bad, so it is 4 decades ago. 

[footballfreak]

The longer I think about this, the more I think the missing guys were never part of the plan. If Hutch/Larin are not already on the way to Toronto today, they’re not playing on Wednesday. Same for Cav. Maybe there was some hope early on, or maybe Herdman just wanted to give opposition coaches something to think about. 

Either way, the calls have to be going out to Tesho/Ricketts after that performance from Brym. I don’t want someone who runs like that in a 1-1 tie anywhere near this team.

[SthMelbRed]

10 minutes ago, Cblake said:

I included this decade in my count, my bad, so it is 4 decades ago. 

You're still counting the '80s, as well. Thirty-three years is not 4 decades.

[Joe Keeper]

For me, the prevailing logic for approaching this game has to be the importance of taking 3 points in Kingston, not squad rotation. With all due respect, this game is no less important  than the home game on Wednesday. 

You dont ever gun to sacrifice or needlessly risk points in a WCQ. Six points here should be the goal. This is a critical 2 games given where the concacaf standings and our place in them are. 

Jamaica will not be as easy as some think. This is not a game to mail in. Jamaica are desperate, playing at home and hosting us in plus 30 degree weather. Beating the bottom of the table team should absolutely be our goal, but do not underestimate them. We are a different team from years past, but lets not be arrogant. Six points here may be critical given the schedule overall. Do the job right; wins get you to the World Cup.

I would agree with others, we should be calling in reinforcements now. The squad is very depleted at this point from cards, injuries and  fitness. Ill take this one further and say overall, we maybe should not have called in Borjan, Hutchinson, Cavallini, or Larin (or some combination)  if they had so little chance of playing. It is highly debatable but extra players with better fitness may see us over the line in these critical matches. 

Think of the other side of the coin. If Herdman is content to play for a draw in Kingston and then somehow we lose or draw the home game against Panama (who will be looking to overtake us with 3 points, not draw) we would quickly be in deep trouble... 

This going in to games against a desperate Costa Rica and pissed off Mexico with mounting injuries to our top and better players.... not good. Plus other teams below us will start winning too. We cant look at our points or place in the standings in isolation from other teams intentions or abilities. 

Also, with our decent start, is it not better to get the points now rather than risking being in a position to have to do it later with less games to go? 

Points dropped or losses now mean far, far more pressure to get them back in later matches when other teams may be in better form. If we have points/wins in hand now, our ability to convert future games in to points would be a massive advantage in many ways (on and off the field) next year. 

 

Personally, I think we should have called up Akindele and Corbeanu already. Midfield is starting to look a tad thin too. Herdman (or the CSAs) reluctance to call up full rosters and with healthy players is starting to concern me. With so many great players available  in these exciting days for Canadian footy, we need to make full use of our overall talent pool to compliment the core. Not tapping all our depth is a detriment to our goal to qualify. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Joe Keeper

[EJsens1]

17 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

So we have a squad of 24 with 3 on card suspensions and 3 keepers.. that's 18 field players. Unless there are injuries/recovery issues, I just dont see JH making major changes other than for Tajon (Jnr), Vitoria (Henry) and Laryea (ZBG). If Jamaica is indeed having issues both on and off the field Herdman  will want to go for it in the first half. If we can get an early goal, Jamaica may just throw in the towel with no fans in the stadium. We have got to go for a win and our depth/home advantage should carry us over Panama. 

This is a great point overall.  Herdman made a comment in his post match interview to Oliver Platt about 7-8 players getting ready for the Jamaica game.  I wonder what the context’s meaning was as he was pretty vague.  In the Mexico game, I was in the dress your best line up camp.  
Obviously with some suspensions we have to make changes but your observations here really made me think that going for it with Davies and David in the line up might be the best approach in this game.  If we get a 2-0 lead, take them out.  We’ll have Buchanan and Laryea back.  Feels like Larin and Hutchinson ain’t happening Wednesday.  I’m torn on what I think they should do.  I’m curious what Herdman’s strategy was going into this window, whether it was mostly predetermined or based on game to game results.

[JamboAl]

4 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

 

Also, the pics that they are all taking are from the rooftop of The Jamaica Pegasus Hotel.

@JamboAl did you stay there or at the Marriott?

Courtyard by Marriott across the street from Emancipation Park and a really excellent jerk shack next door.  The Pegasus is about 200 m from the Courtyard. The Courtyard’s pool is on the 3rd floor if I recall.

[Cblake]

Did they end up selling any tickets to this game or is it completely closed doors 🚪?

[narduch]

22 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Did they end up selling any tickets to this game or is it completely closed doors 🚪?

No fans

https://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/sports/20211006/no-spectators-jamaicas-world-cup-qualifying-match-sunday

[footballfreak]

1 hour ago, Joe Keeper said:

For me, the prevailing logic for approaching this game has to be the importance of taking 3 points in Kingston, not squad rotation. With all due respect, this game is no less important  than the home game on Wednesday. 

You dont ever gun to sacrifice or needlessly risk points in a WCQ. Six points here should be the goal. This is a critical 2 games given where the concacaf standings and our place in them are. 

I bolded that passage because I vehemently disagree. The Panama game is more important - they are the team closest to us in the standings, and are very difficult to beat when they are at home. If we draw or lose to them at home, it puts us in position of either needing a result on the road, or making up a 3/6 point deficit in the rest of our games. 

Six points is still the goal with squad rotation, but the die was already cast by going for it against Mexico. Players needed rest somewhere, and it’s not going to be at home to Panama.

If you go for it from the first whistle, you run into the same problem as the Mexico game - when do you sub off the stars? If it’s 0-0 at half? at 70 mins? Rotating the squad allows us to run Jamaica hard from the first whistle, still have weapons in reserve if things go pear shaped, and be ready to stick it to Panama on Wednesday.

Jamaica has no central midfield. We will have the lions share of possession almost regardless of who we start. That’s not disrespect. It is an honest assessment of their squad right now. They brought a 37 year-old Je-Vaughn Watson back, having played just 5 USL Championship games in the last 2 years, and he played 90 minutes against the USA. They are dangerous up front and we need to respect that, but our backline pretty much picks itself regardless of which strategy you employ. We need energy and defensive grit in the first half, and incisiveness to kill them off in the second.

Edited October 10, 2021 by footballfreak