Milan Borjan

[InglewoodJack]

4 minutes ago, RJB said:

I don't have the athletic so I haven't read it, but it's interesting that it's been said above that Davies didn't have a clear role, and Borjan was annoyed.  Perhaps Herdman was losing the room more than we acknowledge and jumped before the mutiny. 

The article more or less says there was a disagreement between AD and with how Davies was being used, and based on that disagreement, the relationship became fractured between the two. They mentioned the Borjan bit under the context of Borjan being one of JH's stanchest supporters, but even he got fed up with Herdman after he was gonna get benched for DSC.

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I disagree with this. 

Again, let's talk about the context here. Milan was joining a new club and games were coming up fast. What would him and Canada gain by him sitting on the bench?

Keep in mind I haven't read the report. If he stormed out of camp upset, then yes I would agree that's not good and potentially something to consider when it's time to bring the group back together, but if it was just a matter of him calmly choosing to leave the camp because he wasn't playing, then whatever.

It gave St. Clair game time so it was a good thing anyways. 

St. Clair getting game time was what he objected to. If Borjan literally expects to play every game, he’s not viable as a continuing participant.

[dyslexic nam]

It may not be ideal behaviour but I am not going to exile Milan over one event.  He has been a rock for us for a long time now.  

[Colonel Green]

Unless he changes his stance, how are we supposed to integrate other keepers into the team?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Colonel Green

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

St. Clair getting game time was what he objected to. If Borjan literally expects to play every game, he’s not viable as a continuing participant.

Agree to disagree I guess. I do see where you are coming from, but that's unnecessarily harsh in my opinion. It takes two to tango and if he expected to play every game at the Gold Cup JH played a role in setting that expectation, I can only assume. If he expects to play every minute moving forward and we make it an open competition, which we should, then he is free to not accept a call. Or, if he does and then leaves at a future camp, I am willing to entertain it then. Cannot say he is not longer viable based on this one instance alone, which had the context of his club football at play.

[InglewoodJack]

I just wonder how much of this is on the player and how much of it is the expectations set by management and being switched on the player. Borjan let in 2 against Guadeloupe. Maybe he was told that he was the starter for all games, then that happens, and Herdman starts thinking that maybe it's time for a change. Wouldn't be the first time that happens.

[The Real Marc]

I can see why flying out to North America in your offseason to not be the starter would definitely twinge a dedicated veteran ... but that's why they're pros. While there may be a strand of truth to this bit it seems a bit overdone..

[Bison44]

I would put about as much importance on this as all the "walk through walls" stories previously.  When Herdman was in charge it was all sunshine and now "everyone knows" there were cracks and disagreements etc.  My guess would be, that with so many others skipping the GC, Borjan got assurances he would get the games in to help him prep for the new season. If he isnt getting the games, why not goto his team eh?  Was he pissed..prob but I doubt it was a big deal and if Herdman was still there it never would have come out and we would have gotten spoon fed the "brotherhood"  "walk through walls" tropes again.  

[blueseeka]

https://theathletic-com.translate.goog/4814263/2023/08/29/john-herdman-canada-toronto-fc/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

The article translated with google translate

[footballfreak]

9 hours ago, narduch said:

I think all the Gold Cup no shows is fairly good proof of this.

Hard disagree. This summer was the last and only opportunity for guys to get some much needed rest. Copa America in 2024. Gold Cup/World Cup tune-up in 2025. World Cup in 2026. 20 qualifying games, a Gold Cup, Nations League, and a Winter World Cup in 2021/22 left everyone running on fumes. Even durable guys like Johnston and David were starting to break down. Resting the starters this summer was the correct call, and I’m not convinced that any mutiny took place.

I think John saw a low-risk, high-reward opportunity and took it. TFC surely pays better than Canada Soccer, and his benchmark for short-term success is “don’t be the worst team in the league”.

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Hard disagree. This summer was the last and only opportunity for guys to get some much needed rest. Copa America in 2024. Gold Cup/World Cup tune-up in 2025. World Cup in 2026. 20 qualifying games, a Gold Cup, Nations League, and a Winter World Cup in 2021/22 left everyone running on fumes. Even durable guys like Johnston and David were starting to break down. Resting the starters this summer was the correct call, and I’m not convinced that any mutiny took place.

I think John saw a low-risk, high-reward opportunity and took it. TFC surely pays better than Canada Soccer, and his benchmark for short-term success is “don’t be the worst team in the league”.

The Jamaica and Mexico rosters basically disprove this.

Also the last minute drop off of Eustaquio and Adekugbe was pretty fucking weird.

Eustaquio didn't even go to his club. He was training on his own

[footballfreak]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

The Jamaica and Mexico rosters basically disprove this.

Also the last minute drop off of Eustaquio and Adekugbe was pretty fucking weird.

Eustaquio didn't even go to his club. He was training on his own

Mexico and Jamaica didn’t have to pre-qualify for the Octagon. They played 6 fewer games than us. In addition, Jamaica didn’t call their full squad for the last window of qualifying when they were already out.

One of the best rules of thumb for how to run an FA is don’t do what Mexico does. Their poor World Cup followed by the loss to the US in NL all but guaranteed they would play a first XI in the Gold Cup. The US also rotated heavily for the Gold Cup.

Adekugbe and Eustaquio were likely supposed to play but were either too banged up or too tired to go through with it. It happens. They may have agreed to go and then realized their bodies weren’t up for it. There is a very big difference between being fit enough to train and fit enough to play international soccer every four days.

[trc2014]

https://twitter.com/OverDrive1050/status/1697011289300602934/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1697011289300602934&currentTweetUser=OverDrive1050
 

Herdman says the report of Milan leaving camp because of playing time is completely untrue.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

His team currently getting mullered 1-6 (3-7) in a Europa League playoff.

Looks like they are headed to the Conference League.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

His team currently getting mullered 1-6 (3-7) in a Europa League playoff.

Looks like they are headed to the Conference League.

Shitty. Better than nothing. Not sure how much time Borjan has left with the program, but getting those Conference games will be needed to supplement the league play, since the Slovakian league is not the strongest.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Faces David in the Conference League which wont help keep his GA down.

 

Their group

Lille, Slovan Bratislava, Olimpija Ljubljana, Ki Klaksvik

 

Would think they can at least advance. 

[Corazon]

6 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Faces David in the Conference League which wont help keep his GA down.

 

Their group

Lille, Slovan Bratislava, Olimpija Ljubljana, Ki Klaksvik

 

Would think they can at least advance. 

Not if they continue to give up 13 shots on goal in a game...  Sounds like their were terrible against Aris Limassol yesterday.

[DeRo_Is_King]

Starts for Slovan Bratislava vs Zilina. Game is free on OneFootball. 

[trc2014]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:30 AM, trc2014 said:

https://twitter.com/OverDrive1050/status/1697011289300602934/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1697011289300602934&currentTweetUser=OverDrive1050
 

Herdman says the report of Milan leaving camp because of playing time is completely untrue.

Confirmed on the latest Northern Futbol podcast.

[trc2014]

Kloke owes him an apology.

[DeRo_Is_King]

Starts for Slovan Bratislava vs Spartak Trnava. Game is on OneFootball. 

[Stryker911]

When is the last time Borjan had made a legitimate "save? What I mean is a save that good or unexpected. For example, Blake made 2 in the first half on Davies and Larin to keep them in. Borjan had alot of moments through qualifying, against the US in Hamilton, Mexico in Edmonton, a couple against Honduras.

However, since we qualified there hasnt been one that I recall at the World Cup, Gold Cup, friendlies or this last tie. 

He is in serious decline at the club level and appears to be the similar case for country now over an extended period.

[Floortom]

9 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

When is the last time Borjan had made a legitimate "save? What I mean is a save that good or unexpected. For example, Blake made 2 in the first half on Davies and Larin to keep them in. Borjan had alot of moments through qualifying, against the US in Hamilton, Mexico in Edmonton, a couple against Honduras.

However, since we qualified there hasnt been one that I recall at the World Cup, Gold Cup, friendlies or this last tie. 

He is in serious decline at the club level and appears to be the similar case for country now over an extended period.

His play during WCQ was ridiculous and unsustainable. He single-handedly stole a handful of points. After that, he was the worst keeper at the World Cup and has been mediocre at best since then. I get his history with the program, leadership etc. but there's no reason for him to be the de facto #1 anymore other than if we're just trying to protect his feelings. 

[grigorio]

14 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

When is the last time Borjan had made a legitimate "save? What I mean is a save that good or unexpected. For example, Blake made 2 in the first half on Davies and Larin to keep them in. Borjan had alot of moments through qualifying, against the US in Hamilton, Mexico in Edmonton, a couple against Honduras.

However, since we qualified there hasnt been one that I recall at the World Cup, Gold Cup, friendlies or this last tie. 

He is in serious decline at the club level and appears to be the similar case for country now over an extended period.

I've tried to describe this in a few ways but it always sounds kind of weird, but will try again. 

His position on goals conceded looks like how someone would act if trying to look like a goalie saving a shot, not like a goalie actually trying to save the shot (I know this probably makes no sense). 

It's like he throws his body generally in a direction, but has no conviction, intent, or ability to actually get a piece of it on the ball. 

The number of balls that just go basically right through him or mere inches away from him are wild. 

[Markoaleks]

@grigorio well said - makes sense and is the reality when seeing Borjan play of late.  
last night he made what I describe to my kids a “ Begovic save” - they know the reference about basically saving a shot directed right at him.  Only save of the match if I recall.  Was at game and re-watched highlights, Blake made 2 saves in first half that were exactly of the quality stop needed on the 2nd Jamaica goal. 
Ship has sailed on him- World Cup qualification run will always make him a legend in my view but time for new gloves in the net 

PS- That penalty call was soft a F