Alistair Johnston

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He said a global fan base, and he's right. You are looking at merchandising, solely, as if that was the sole barometer. 

If you come to Barcelona you'll see the only people wearing Barça shirts are kids on vacation with their parents. I went to the women's Champions League last night and did not wear mine. Then you see a news report from Jakarta and you see people in them, they are all over Morocco.

You won't see Liverpool shirts either, when all stats say Liverpool is the most popular English team in Spain and by far the most popular in Catalonia. But Manchester United, PSG, Juventus, for sure. 

Celtic is a major club, with high recognition, and not just because of Liverpool, however much your jealousy or rivalry is coming out there. It'd be a great move for Johnston in terms of profile and quality of play, and as said, an excellent launching pad for a contract later into his 20s with an even higher level club.

Nope mate, again.  You guys love your anecdotals. 

(And clearly I cited social media and viewership along with merchandise. )

Look at the numbers.  They have global support yes, of course.  So does every Premier League team, especially those in Europe.  They don't have support close to a big world club. Bottom line. 

Edit: And I said I love Johnston and will support him there and will love to watch him in Europe, despite...whatever - like I did Stalteri but let's not make stuff up. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Ha. Nah, mate.

Celtic are extremely well attended for where they are located but to pretend they have a global fan base even close to the big boys I think you are just making up stuff because of Liverpool's ties to them.

By any measurable metric - merchandise sales, social media followers, TV viewership etc. they are on honestly on a West Ham level of global fans and not close to a world club. Chelsea, Man City, probably some Brazilian clubs for instance absolutely blow them away. 

You can disparage PSG or Real fans all you want (I love to) but if global Celtic supporters buy, follow and watch a small fraction of what those clubs bring in, any point about engagement is just anecdotal.

 

From 2019 when I could last find numbers for all

Big 3 social media followers 

West Ham  - over 4.5 million

Celtic - over 3 million 

Real Madrid - 223 million

 

Merchandise sales 

Right after the pandemic (ish, hard to get apple to apples exactly)

West Ham - about £10 million 

Celtic - about £15 milion 

PSG -  €700m 

 

Hard to get global numbers on TV viewship but Sky was crowing about 1.5 million viewers of an Old Firm game a few years ago.  Put that against a whole host of clubs that have better global TV deals than the SPL and the fact that they last about as long as Red Star in the Champions League, their global viewship has to be pretty small in comparison. El Classico had 75 million viewership a few years ago to compare. 

Sorry even if you quadruple Celtic's numbers because they are more "engaged" (no reason to do that against say West Ham, who aren't fashionable) their following is miniscule against world teams. 

Edit:  In fact I would guess Celtic get a fair merchandise and social media boost through unengaged cultural fans of the (ethnic) Celtic diaspora - including in Canada. 

 

You're right, mate. I asked the West Ham supporters here in Melbourne and they both agree that West Ham is a much bigger global club than Celtic. 🙄

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

23 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

You're right, mate. I asked the West Ham supporters here in Melbourne and they both agree that West Ham is a much bigger global club than Celtic. 🙄

Once again you are making up stuff, this time what I said.

Celtic are not close to the world teams they are closer to West Ham level. West Ham is not above them though they have global support as you just demonstrated. 

 

https://www.whufc.com/fans/hammers-hub/supporters-clubs/find-club/international-supporters-clubs/oceania/australia-1

If you actually wanted a real anecdote.

 

It is a good move for Johnston, but less so than Club Brugge or Porto because the leagues are slightly better.  I would certainly say the same about Rangers with a few more caveats.

[Pottsy3]

8 hours ago, frmr said:

He'd be the first-ever Canadian Celtic player. De Rosario trialed with Celtic once upon a time but it never materialized.

edit: I stand corrected, Joe Kennaway played for Celtic in the 30's.

Emile Legault was signing with Celtic a few years ago (before flaming out at Pacific) but had his work permits denied.

[VinceA]

One obvious reason this transfer is going pretty smoothly it seems is because ZBG is waiting in the wings to eat up all those minutes. Which ultimately is good all around from a Canadian perspective.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I can remember a time, one hundred years ago, when a player who was considered here as one of the lesser lights of our NT ended up signing for Hibs, which at that time was the highest profile team amongst our NT players.

Times sure have changed, it seems the SPL (aside from the Old Firm) isn't held in much regard at all (re our players playing there)

[dyslexic nam]

10 minutes ago, VinceA said:

One obvious reason this transfer is going pretty smoothly it seems is because ZBG is waiting in the wings to eat up all those minutes. Which ultimately is good all around from a Canadian perspective.

Yeah this was one of the first things that crossed my mind.  This would be an awesome move to free up a starting spot for ZBG.  

[canuckgbp]

 

[The Real Marc]

Not gonna wait to see if something better comes along than Scotland?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

...Edit:  In fact I would guess Celtic get a fair merchandise and social media boost through unengaged cultural fans of the (ethnic) Celtic diaspora - including in Canada.

Most of that diaspora probably thinkThe Quiet Man was an accurate depiction of life in rural Ireland and are more into stuff like Notre Dame college football hence the relatively mediocre social media and merchandising numbers in global terms that you quoted.

Then there's the whole Liverpool and Celtic as bosom buddies mythology that gets peddled when traditionally it actually tended to be Rangers and Liverpool that were viewed as being aligned as Protestant clubs to a certain extent through the UK's shipbuilding industry along with Linfield in Belfast.

Traditionally it was Everton that were widely viewed as being the more Roman Catholic leaning club in Merseyside terms, just as Manchester United were viewed as being more that way inclined than Manchester City were slightly further east. That was never anything like as overt as it was with Celtic and going way back Hibs in Scotland though.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

I don't hate this as an intermediate move

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Most of that diaspora probably thinkThe Quiet Man was an accurate depiction of life in rural Ireland and are more into stuff like Notre Dame college football hence the relatively mediocre social media and merchandising numbers in global terms that you quoted.

Then there's the whole Liverpool and Celtic as bosom buddies mythology that gets peddled when traditionally it actually tended to be Rangers and Liverpool that were viewed as being aligned as Protestant clubs to a certain extent through the UK's shipbuilding industry along with Linfield in Belfast.

Traditionally it was Everton that were widely viewed as being the more Roman Catholic leaning club in Merseyside terms, just as Manchester United were viewed as being more that way inclined than Manchester City were slightly further east. That was never anything like as overt as it was with Celtic and going way back Hibs in Scotland though.

Sorry. It's not about religion.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/142364-blog-our-shared-bond-with-celtic

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Not sure why you think that contradicts what I wrote.

[Corazon]

You guys are all missing the real reason Johnston is being linked to Celtic.  Herdman is playing chess once again as he is sending him in on a recruiting trip to convince Bruno Davidson to join Canada. 😂

Operation Bruno is underway.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Corazon

[Unnamed Trialist]

37 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Problem with all this is

-that it is far too early for the transfer window, it does not open until Jan 1 and is only open in January '23

-they may agree on terms but can't do the obligatory medical, unless they want to do it in Qatar. So you can't confirm the signing.

-any agreement on terms will be conditioned on another club coming along and bettering the Celtic offer, which could readily be upped if he continues to show good form

-if Montreal does not sign a binding commitment to accepting the offer, which I am not sure they even can do outside the transfer window, this whole deal is still radically "pending"

[Dominic94]

Very hard for a Scottish kid to say no to a Celtic, he will also play in Europe competitions.

[Cheeta]

14 hours ago, jonovision said:

Celtic is a big team and this would obviously be a great move for Alistair. That said, other than the Rangers matches and the handful of European matches each year, wouldn't the week-to-week quality of competition be higher in MLS?

Maybe equal for half the matches.  I'm getting the lack of love for SPL here, there's a lot of space between bow and stern in the league but I'd also say that's very true in MLS.

He's going to be earning multiples of his current pay packet.  And maybe as importantly he's going to get an introduction to a football culture he'd never come close to experiencing in MLS.  I don't think that can be overstated in importance if he is looking beyond Scotland.

And it shouldn't be too difficult to learn the local language 😉

Not sure what he's going to make of the Green Brigade.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I can remember a time, one hundred years ago, when a player who was considered here as one of the lesser lights of our NT ended up signing for Hibs, which at that time was the highest profile team amongst our NT players.

Times sure have changed, it seems the SPL (aside from the Old Firm) isn't held in much regard at all (re our players playing there)

Most of us wanted Witherspoon on the WC team (St Johnstone).  We were all happy when Theo Bair (also St Johnstone) and Victor Loturi (Ross County) signed in the SPL and the board follows Ben Paton (also Ross County).  So I think we all hold it in some regard as a good stepping stone/development league for the NT players, and as evidenced by Witherspoon have no issues with a quality player outside of the big 2 being named to the NT team.

[Watchmen]

18 hours ago, narduch said:

Somebody really needs to grab the SPL broadcast rights

I've long argued that the SPL should be the #1 league OneSoccer should be targeting to bring in to their services (given the budgets involved).  I did recently read that the SPL international rights are a bit of a mess.  Basically, they (likely) undervalued them and sold them to a third party, who then sells them off for a decent profit.  I don't know when that deal expires, but it sounds like they'll be taking a different approach next time.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, Watchmen said:

We were all happy when Theo Bair (also St Johnstone) and Victor Loturi (Ross County) signed in the SPL and the board follows Ben Paton (also Ross County).

We follow all Canadian players but were any of these guys under any consideration for the NT.  I really don't mean to piss on the SPL but it seems we've upped our level, even the Dutch Eerste Divisie solicits questions now.  Herdman himself is constantly going on about having players playing at the highest of levels spouting stats about how playing at the top level relates to moving on at the World Cup

[Floortom]

Is getting battered in the Champions League Group stage really a huge development opportunity for a player? 

people keep saying “he’ll get Champions League experience” - sure that’s a cool moment but I would think playing far better completion week in and week out in a decent league would outweigh the group stage exit experience.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Floortom

[Watchmen]

25 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

We follow all Canadian players but were any of these guys under any consideration for the NT.  I really don't mean to piss on the SPL but it seems we've upped our level, even the Dutch Eerste Divisie solicits questions now.  Herdman himself is constantly going on about having players playing at the highest of levels spouting stats about how playing at the top level relates to moving on at the World Cup

Well first, you cut off the player who was not only "under consideration" but made the NT.  And second, I would say the rest are younger players.  No, they're not in the NT picture yet and might never be. Bair was on the Olympic team though.  Still, I'll go back to saying that I think most of us think it's a good (not great, but good) league and there's nothing wrong with some of our players playing in it.

I get it.  We're looking for our players (especially the best ones) to keep striving for greater heights.  But Japan also has a few national team players at Celtic and Japan just (checks notes) beat Germany at the World Cup.  So I think Johnston going there is still a good move.

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Well first, you cut off the player who was not only "under consideration" but made the NT.  And second, I would say the rest are younger players.  No, they're not in the NT picture yet and might never be. Bair was on the Olympic team though.  Still, I'll go back to saying that I think most of us think it's a good (not great, but good) league and there's nothing wrong with some of our players playing in it.

I get it.  We're looking for our players (especially the best ones) to keep striving for greater heights.  But Japan also has a few national team players at Celtic and Japan just (checks notes) beat Germany at the World Cup.  So I think Johnston going there is still a good move.

To add to that Harry Paton at Ross County probably would have been in consideration had he not fallen off the face of the earth. He was on our Gold Cup roster last summer (too bad covid fucked that up)

If a better team than Celtic wanted Johnston, they would be in on the transfer too.

Edited November 25, 2022 by narduch

[dyslexic nam]

I find that we look at this sort of thing through a really specific lens -  where will he face the highest level of competition and thus (if everything goes well) advance his development as rapidly as possible.  But I think this oversimplifies things.  The financial security of playing for a big team (even if in a smaller league) is probably pretty big. Global reach argument aside, Celtic would have some pretty serious financial clout and AJ would probably be looking at a huge pay jump.   For a guy with maybe 7-10 good earning years left as a pro, that is a pretty huge incentive.  

The bottom line for me is that he is in the best position to weigh his options and arrive at the best decision. It doesn’t always work out but it is a bit naive to think that we have some special insight into what his best move would be.  If he chooses to go to Celtic, I trust that is the best decision for him.  And I will love to cheer him on there - or wherever he lands.  
 

Edited November 25, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[Watchmen]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I find that we look at this sort of thing through a really specific lens -  where will he face the highest level of competition and thus (if everything goes well) advance his development as rapidly as possible.  But I think this oversimplifies things.  The financial security of playing for a big team (even if in a smaller league) is probably pretty big. Global reach argument aside, Celtic would have some pretty serious financial clout and AJ would probably be looking at a huge pay jump.   For a guy with maybe 7-10 good earning years left as a pro, that is a pretty huge incentive.  

The bottom line for me is that he is in the best position to weigh his options and arrive at the best decision. It doesn’t always work out but it is a bit naive to think that we have some special insight into what his best move would be.  If he chooses to go to Celtic, I trust that is the best decision for him.  And I will love to cheer him on there - or wherever he lands.  
 

I'll add another aspect: players want to win, and moving to Celtic gives him a really good chance at winning a league title in a good league.  I'm not saying he'd turn down a move to mid-tier team in a better league (like Bologna), but the opportunity to win something significant exists at Celtic that won't be there at other clubs.