CPL new teams speculation

[top cheese]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:25 AM, Initial B said:

Thought I would add the list of cities i was considering in my above post from the Wiki, from largest to smallest populations, current CPL club cities in bold:

Tier I CMAs/cities (>700/500K) [12]

• GTA (Mississauga (I), Brampton (I)) [O]
• GMA (Laval (I), Longueuil (II)) [E]
• GVA (Burnaby (II), Surrey (I)) [W]
• Calgary [W]
• Ottawa [O]
• Edmonton [W]
• Quebec City [E]
• Winnipeg [W]
• Hamilton [O]

Tier II CMAs (500K-200K) [12]

• Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge [O]
• York (Markham/Vaughan) [O]
• London [O]
• Halifax [E]
• Oshawa [O]
• Victoria [W]
• Windsor [O]
• Saskatoon [W]
• Regina [W]
• St. Catharines/Niagara [O]
• Sherbrooke [E]
• St. John's [E]

Tier III CMAs (200K-100K) [20]

• Belleville [O]
• Chatham/Kent [O]
• Fredericton [E]
• Chilliwack [W]
• Red Deer [W]
• Barrie [O]
• Kelowna [W]
• Abbotsford [W]
• Sudbury [O]
• Kingston [O]
• Saguenuay [E]
• Trois-Rivieres [E]
• Guelph [O]
• Moncton [E]
• Saint John [E]
• Peterborough [O]
• Lethbridge [W]
• Nanaimo [W]
• Kamloops [W]
• Thunder Bay [W]

Tier IV CMAs (100K-50K) [16]

• Cape Breton [E]
• Sarnia [O]
• Drummondville [E]
• Prince George [W]
• Granby [E]
• Sault Ste Marie [O]
• Medicine Hat [W]
• Wood Buffalo [W]
• North Bay [O]
• Charlottetown [E]
• Grande Prairie [W]
• Vernon [W]
• Cornwall [O]
• St Hyacinthe [E]
• Brandon [W]
• Rimouski [E]

 

st johns wouldn't be a tier II location - theres probably 120,000 people in the area. and wouldn't compete finniacially. I think your overextending the reach of the soccer structure in Canada. If we have a solid tier 1 league we would be in good shape

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think they are assuming the lower tiers would be significantly lower budget than the top tier and that every city would find its natural level. I suspect there would be lots of clubs from in and around the larger cities if that ever happened as that is where the best players tend to be. L1O and PLSQ are the most obvious template for a regional D3 semi-pro tier.

As for CanPL their ability to expand will be determined by how large the budgets are and what the break even will be on crowds as that will determine how many cities can realistically sustain a team by remaining competitive enough to maintain fan interest. They need to get well past 8 to have a stable format, but on the flip side having too many teams starts to dilute the quality and can kill interest in the larger markets. Finding the right balance is challenging.

[Kent]

6 hours ago, top cheese said:

st johns wouldn't be a tier II location - theres probably 120,000 people in the area. and wouldn't compete finniacially. I think your overextending the reach of the soccer structure in Canada. If we have a solid tier 1 league we would be in good shape

His range for tier II is 200k to 500k metro population. St. John’s is actually 205k, not 120k.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census_metropolitan_areas_and_agglomerations_in_Canada

The city proper is 108k which is a lot closer to what you were thinking. I have never even been to St John’s so I don’t know if the surrounding communities are actually close enough to consider, but that was his method across the country I believe.

[Zem]

23 minutes ago, Kent said:

The city proper is 108k which is a lot closer to what you were thinking. I have never even been to St John’s so I don’t know if the surrounding communities are actually close enough to consider, but that was his method across the country I believe.

The whole metro area and beyond would be relevant. People regularly travel halfway across the island for shopping and events in St. John's, including sporting events.

[top cheese]

1 hour ago, Zem said:

The whole metro area and beyond would be relevant. People regularly travel halfway across the island for shopping and events in St. John's, including sporting events.

People dont regularly travel half way across the island 6 hours for events. Let alone sporting events.

Last research that was released said the population is continuing to decline and by 2030 half the province will be over 60. St. Johns area doesn't have a population to support this league 

[Zem]

9 hours ago, top cheese said:

People dont regularly travel half way across the island 6 hours for events. Let alone sporting events.

Last research that was released said the population is continuing to decline and by 2030 half the province will be over 60. St. Johns area doesn't have a population to support this league 

You would at least be an entertaining troll if you weren't so obviously clueless and arbitrarily anti-NL.

 

I know people who do literally come here from the Burin and Central for shopping and events like concerts and sports. Not to say that they'd make up a significant proportion of people at soccer games, but it illustrates the fact that Newfoundlanders are already used to travelling very long distances for similar events and basically anyone on the Avalon would happily drive to see a game if they were at all interested.

And I shouldn't need to explain to you that you don't need a million people to get a few thousand in the stands every game, particularly on an island starved of pro sports. Population is far from everything and St. John's is right around the level everyone's talking about with regards to division II regardless.

 

At any rate, welcome to the ignore list.

[mtlsab]

I would like a team in NL so we will truely be Coast-to-Coast. I think we should stop expanding at 12 teams and then prepare a D2

[nazzer]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:37 AM, SpursFlu said:

I lived in kelowna for 4 years and commuted to Vernon for work every day. First 3 years before the new highway was built. Didn't think much of it. Thats like saying we cant expect people from Port Coquitlam to go to Canucks or Whitecaps games. I live in New west and all in it takes my just under 1 hour to get in to the game. Im a season ticket holder. Whats the difference between that and driving from Peachland to Kelowna.  Except a drive thru the Okanagan in the summer is way more pleasant?

 

Following Pacific fc it seems they fully expect to draw from Nanaimo and other mid Isle communities. Im pretty sure thats further than examples i used

I don't think comparing PoCo/Vancouver to Kelowna/Penticton is a workable metaphor. Penticton is not a commuter suburb of Kelowna. It has been 15 years since I lived in Penticton, and only visit now so I could be off base what with how the city is being rapidly gentrified by Vancouver real estate money so maybe i"m wrong. But I just don't see that many people going to Kelowna from Penticton for a soccer game. Perhaps I'm not thinking people will see the league as major league enough to travel. I could buy into Penticton and Vernon supporting some sort of minor league teams of their own. 

[JamboAl]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:28 AM, Zem said:

You would at least be an entertaining troll if you weren't so obviously clueless and arbitrarily anti-NL.

 

I know people who do literally come here from the Burin and Central for shopping and events like concerts and sports. Not to say that they'd make up a significant proportion of people at soccer games, but it illustrates the fact that Newfoundlanders are already used to travelling very long distances for similar events and basically anyone on the Avalon would happily drive to see a game if they were at all interested.

And I shouldn't need to explain to you that you don't need a million people to get a few thousand in the stands every game, particularly on an island starved of pro sports. Population is far from everything and St. John's is right around the level everyone's talking about with regards to division II regardless.

 

At any rate, welcome to the ignore list.

Top Cheese isn’t completely off base in his assertions.  To survive, a team in St John’s would have to draw something way north of a few thousand to make it work just due to travel costs.  Is that a reason why minor league hockey teams have struggled to last long.

Plus I’m curious how many people in villages and outports outside of St John’s would have any interest in soccer, enough to drive hours for a game.  I don’t know but would be interested to find out.  Personally I know a few Newfoundlanders who have left the island and there is no interest in soccer from themselves or their relatives and friends who remain and live outside of St John’s.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Newfoundland is one of the traditional hotbeds of soccer interest in Canada. They can get crazily high crowds for the amateur National Championships there and they have an SSS already in place in St John's for games like that. It would be a risky venture no question, but so is a city like Saskatoon for soccer and nobody seemed to bat an eyelid about it potentially being tried there.

[-Hammer-]

I think your most mission critical market to get into is Quebec. Having a team Quebecer's can rally behind besides the Impact I think is certainly something you want to pursue. After that, I'd be setting my sites on Saskatoon and getting a presence there. Just make sure you schedule games there to not coincide with the Riders.

[Winnipeg Fury]

1 hour ago, -Hammer- said:

I think your most mission critical market to get into is Quebec. Having a team Quebecer's can rally behind besides the Impact I think is certainly something you want to pursue. After that, I'd be setting my sites on Saskatoon and getting a presence there. Just make sure you schedule games there to not coincide with the Riders.

Agreed and I think we can do all of the above for 2020.  

By all accounts, Saskatoon is in the mix for 2020.  Quebec is a must.  Hopefully more than one club from Quebec.  So far we have heard about Quebec City, Laval and Montreal.

The one city that is a sleeper that nobody is watching is Regina.  Arguably the most successful professional team in Canada is the Saskatchewan Roughriders.  They have been in existence over a century and have a massive, loyal fan-base that transcends the province, coast-to-coast.  They sell more merchandise than the rest of the CFL combined.                                                                                             If the Riders decide to enter CPL, look out !  And I can tell you that if Valour is remotely successful, there will be no way the Roughrider organization sits idle.  They have a brand new stadium very similar to IGF,  that is sitting empty virtually year round.  All they need to do is upgrade their turf.  If they feel they can use Mosaic stadium another 15-20 dates per year,  cross marketing with their die-hard Roughrider fan-base that follows the team around the country..........the CPL will have struck gold.  And right now, the Riders are sitting on the sidelines.........just watching and waiting.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Winnipeg Fury

[garmc]

18 hours ago, mtlsab said:

I would like a team in NL so we will truely be Coast-to-Coast. I think we should stop expanding at 12 teams and then prepare a D2

Truly? How is Halifax and Victoria not "truly" coast-to-coast?

[Admin]

Just now, garmc said:

Truly? How is Halifax and Victoria not "truly" coast-to-coast?

WTF! You are not allowed to simply say coast to coast anymore. It has to be coast to coast to coast.....  

[garmc]

Just now, admin said:

WTF! You are not allowed to simply say coast to coast anymore. It has to be coast to coast to coast.....  

The CPL won't be truly coast-to-coast until Alert gets a team.

[mtlsab]

15 minutes ago, admin said:

WTF! You are not allowed to simply say coast to coast anymore. It has to be coast to coast to coast.....  

Sorry I'm a French speaking, so I wrote it the wrong way. I was saying truely coast-to-coast because NF is farther than Halifax

[baulderdash77]

I truly think that the next best opportunities for the CPL are Ottawa, 2 in Quebec and 1 in Saskatchewan the 1 more in Southern Ontario.

If we can get that as a 12 team league then the CPL will be a true national league across the board and that would be a truly exciting thing for sport in general and soccer in particular in Canada.

[Dominic94]

My next 7 teams... 

 

Ottawa

Montreal/Laval

Quebec City

Sask

London

Moncton/Saint John (couple of billionaires who own hockey teams there)

Sherbrooke

[ted]

4 hours ago, mtlsab said:

Sorry I'm a French speaking, so I wrote it the wrong way. I was saying truely coast-to-coast because NF is farther than Halifax

LOL, in French, English or even Swahili, that's not how geography works.

[Keegan]

Saskatchewan next for sure - it will be a slam dunk IMO.  That team will be a Halifax, Hamilton, Winnipeg level franchise.

[nolando]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

My next 7 teams... 

 

Ottawa

Montreal/Laval

Quebec City

Sask

London

Moncton/Saint John (couple of billionaires who own hockey teams there)

Sherbrooke

Still no greater Vancouver?

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

Still no greater Vancouver?

They must be working hard on Surrey.

[juicy sushi]

The biggest issue is sustainability.  If this is going to work, then new teams will need to be of a similar scale and growth potential.  If the league is less rigorous in making sure of that then we will likely have a few teams that will struggle to survive.  Some locations that fans may emotionally ‘want’ will likely be quite marginal as business ideas, and fans may need to accept that a Canadian professional league may not look representative geographically.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

People on this board keep ignoring that we are getting a Montreal annoucement from Bunbury's group in a few weeks.

It seems pretty stubborn and not altogether respectful of the facts to just ignore someone who, apart from being a national team legend, has been someone hired by CPL to assist in things like the trials. I know it is fun to just throw out cities, look up populations, and basically speculate like hell. But how does that justify ignoring the major Montreal CPL announcement, which is the most important piece of news we have heard in the last few weeks and has an immediate impact on the post 2019 future of the league.  

[Keegan]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

People on this board keep ignoring that we are getting a Montreal annoucement from Bunbury's group in a few weeks.

It seems pretty stubborn and not altogether respectful of the facts to just ignore someone who, apart from being a national team legend, has been someone hired by CPL to assist in things like the trials. I know it is fun to just throw out cities, look up populations, and basically speculate like hell. But how does that justify ignoring the major Montreal CPL announcement, which is the most important piece of news we have heard in the last few weeks and has an immediate impact on the post 2019 future of the league.  

Who is ignoring it?  I think most of us just know it’s a done deal and this is speculating on next teams (that’s how I feel anyway).  I think Laval is going to be great, especially if they can play Montreal at least once a year.