CPL new teams speculation

[Macksam]

42 minutes ago, 1996 said:

It’s nice to have a dream what is life without having dreams and yours is to see the three Canadian MLS teams in the CPL one day if the CPL survives, mine is to see even more Canadian teams in the MLS if the CPL does not make it, what is life without having a dream pretty boring I think.

Lol, what about having three successful MLS teams and a fair number of successful CPL clubs? 

Anyhow, it’s better to have dreams you personally can strive towards....unless, you’re trying to become a software or engineering billionaire and planning to utilize your capital to obtain that elusive fourth Canadian MLS franchise.

[1996]

Yes 

5 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Lol, what about having three successful MLS teams and a fair number of successful CPL clubs? 

Anyhow, it’s better to have dreams you personally can strive towards....unless, you’re trying to become a software or engineering billionaire and planning to utilize your capital to obtain that elusive fourth Canadian MLS franchise.

Well of course a successful CPL , that’s why I said in case the CPL were to falter then more Canadian MLS teams would probably be the next move, if the CPL does well then no need for more Canadian teams in the MLS, I think we would have a pretty good setup with the CPL and the three Canadian MLS teams .

[Ansem]

59 minutes ago, 1996 said:

It’s nice to have a dream what is life without having dreams and yours is to see the three Canadian MLS teams in the CPL one day if the CPL survives, mine is to see even more Canadian teams in the MLS if the CPL does not make it, what is life without having a dream pretty boring I think.

I'm dreaming? What does that make you? That's fantasy.

You really think MLS has remotely any interest in Canada beyond the 3? CPL or not, 3 is all you'll ever see and wouldn't be surprised if some are tossed aside for more lucrative US markets

At least, my position is fueled by something...which is until Americans are no longer considered domestics on Canadian teams, I don't support MLS. If the day come where that's resolve, I'll be the first to say "let's have our cake and eat it too" 

[Sébastien]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:44 PM, Ansem said:

Saputo spent almost $200M for the club. He thinks it's worth $175M. It's overvalued as he doesn't even own the stadium nor the training centre lands. 

Even if he sold, he'd wouldn't make back the money he invested.

 

Just to correct a few matters:

The Government of Québec ended up paying the vast majority of the cost of the actual stadium, on top of the RIO basically giving away the land (sure he does not own it, but doubtful he would have built it had he had to find the land in the first place). I also understand that the idea of the stadium "not being his" is because he took the decision to put in place a non-profit (which has its own advantages) to own the stadium.

Lots of great information here on how Saputo asking taxpayers for more support is pretty ludicrous.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/1129753/joey-saputo-impact-montreal-mls-taxes-ville-montreal-chronique-martin-leclerc

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

Just to correct a few matters:

The Government of Québec ended up paying the vast majority of the cost of the actual stadium, on top of the RIO basically giving away the land (sure he does not own it, but doubtful he would have built it had he had to find the land in the first place). I also understand that the idea of the stadium "not being his" is because he took the decision to put in place a non-profit (which has its own advantages) to own the stadium.

Lots of great information here on how Saputo asking taxpayers for more support is pretty ludicrous.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/1129753/joey-saputo-impact-montreal-mls-taxes-ville-montreal-chronique-martin-leclerc

The translation for those who wants to read it:

 

Translation from CBC:

It's always staggering to see how some sports team owners seem disconnected from the society in which they live. The last in the running is Joey Saputo, the owner of the Montreal Impact.

A text by Martin Leclerc

Last Friday, Mr. Saputo invited the media to a sort of round table during which he spent almost two hours unveiling the financial challenges facing his soccer club. In particular, he argued that his business loses about $ 11 million per season.

To turn things around, he believes his company needs to be more combative and sell some 4,500 additional season tickets, which would allow him to join the MLS average. Ticket prices will also be increased to beautify the revenue column.

Then the rabbit comes out of the hat ...

***

To make the Impact more competitive financially compared to other formations, Joey Saputo would like to invest 50 million in the team's stadium to build lodges and some more luxurious sections that would significantly increase revenues. Unfortunately, he says, this major project remains on the ice because the property taxes of the City of Montreal are unfair and too high for his taste.

For someone unfamiliar with the history of Saputo Stadium, Joey Saputo brilliantly pleads his case. He explains that the team pays about 2 million municipal taxes per year for the stadium and the training center, which is established on the site of the former Letourneux barracks.

The stadium does not belong to him or the ground on which it is built, in the shadow of the Olympic stadium, he pleads. As for the training site, only the building belongs to the team, while the grounds on which the players and youths of the Academy train remain the property of the borough of Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve.

"If I invest in the stadium, which does not belong to me, I will have to pay more property taxes and it would not be worth it [to renovate the stadium]. We pay 2 million municipal taxes a year for a stadium in which I invested 60 million during construction. Saputo Stadium does not belong to me. [...] We gave $ 60 million for Montreal to have a stadium. Today, I am taxed on a donation! Tax me on my business, but not on what I give! Says Joey Saputo.

When you listen to him, you almost have the impression that this businessman, from a sophisticated background and a member of one of the richest families in Canada, is being extorted outright by the municipal administration.

But that is not quite the case.

***

In the mid-2000s, Joey Saputo decided to build a stadium for his club, which had existed for almost 15 years. No one was demonstrating in the streets for Montreal to get a soccer stadium. This project responded solely and specifically to the needs of the Bleu-blanc-noir and was the centerpiece of a business plan prepared by its owner.

Initially, the project was modest. The works were supposed to cost 15 million. For reasons that belong to them, the owners of the Impact then decided to place their stadium under the legal framework of a non-profit organization (NPO). But in the end, the legal personality of the stadium does not matter. This stadium was not built for the population. Its raison d'être is simple: it is the home and headquarters of the Montreal Impact just like the Bell Center is the home and head office of the Canadiens. And all the income that comes out, about $ 500,000 per game according to Mr. Saputo, is found in the coffers of his company.

The construction of the stadium finally cost 17 million. According to the documents submitted by the Impact and the RIO at the time, the Saputo family donated $ 7.5 million to the NPO and the rest of the construction was financed over 25 years.

In addition, the stadium was built on RIO land, which allowed the Impact to save a considerable amount. The bill to buy land located in the heart of the city, near a subway line and large enough to build a stadium would certainly be several million. To allow Joey Saputo to use the premises as he pleased as if he were the owner, the City of Montreal then granted him a very modest 40-year long generous lease.

Incredibly, ten years later, Joey Saputo comes out on the public square to argue that since the land does not belong to him, he should not be subject to the same taxation regime as the other corporate citizens of Montreal! Memory is a faculty that forgets, no doubt.

 

In the early 2010s, shortly after the opening of the stadium, Joey Saputo's company got a grant from the MLS. Expansion work then became necessary to meet league requirements and upgrade the stadium capacity from 13,000 to 20,000 seats.

To offset the bill, the Quebec government then extended no less than $ 23 million. Expansion work eventually cost $30 million. Generously, the owner of the Impact then put his hand in his pocket to find the missing 7 million.

If you followed the story well, the Saputo stadium finally cost $ 47 million, nearly half of which was borne by Quebec taxpayers. Not to mention the land graciously offered by the RIO. As for Joey Saputo, he has offered a soccer stadium for the modest sum of some 14.5 million, which is exceptional.

However, we are far from the $ 60 million donation Joey Saputo claims to have generously given to Montrealers.

(A parenthesis here to emphasize that since its construction, the stadium of the Impact has inherited the name Saputo stadium.Usually, companies pay real fortunes to give their name and attach their logo at a stadium or amphitheater. For example, Vidéotron paid $ 33 million for the new Québec City amphitheater to bear its name, a sum to which will be added $ 30 million if Quebec one day obtains an NHL franchise A "gift" of $ 7.5 million is it sufficient for Saputo companies to obtain this privilege, and if so, the resulting spinoffs far outweigh the $ 14.5 million Joey Saputo invested in "the stadium that does not belong to him".)

***

The other part of the story that Mr. Saputo forgot to mention is that no later than in 2017, when all Montrealers were faced with the usual tax hikes, the Impact and the Canadian have miraculously seen the property assessments of Saputo Stadium and the Bell Center fall!

As if by magic, the Saputo Stadium property assessment went from 43.9 to 33.7 million, a drop of nearly 25%. In April 2017, the daily newspaper La Presse reported that the tax bill of the Impact had been reduced in equivalent proportions, or $ 393,000 per year. What landowner in Montreal would not dream of seeing his tax bill drop by 24.4%?

And as luck would have it, the training center tax bill was also reduced by $ 18,000 a year (16.6%).

For the past two years, the Impact has saved more than $ 800,000 in property taxes because the City of Montreal has listened to Joey Saputo's grievances. As a victim of unjust taxation, we have probably seen worse.

Despite all of the above, on Friday, October 12, 2018, Mr. Saputo found that it was a good idea to call the media representatives to complain about his municipal tax bill. He even confided that he had met with the mayor of Montreal, Valérie Plante, to ask him to intervene on his behalf.

Perhaps Joey Saputo has forgotten that just 10 months ago, when she had just been elected mayor, Mrs. Plante denied an election promise and bludgeoned Montrealers with a rise in taxes of 3.3%, which was to be the biggest increase of the last six years?

It paid a heavy political price for this clumsiness, which however justified by the great urgency of renovating the infrastructures of the city.

It will be very interesting to see if the mayor, when all ordinary citizens tighten their belts, will feel challenged by the so-called injustice that Joey Saputo and the leaders of the Impact complain about.

[A_Gagne]

On 10/12/2018 at 4:23 PM, Ansem said:

That's my speculation but this interview today is quite telling about the financial state of Montreal Impact in MLS

Montreal seems to be in financial trouble 

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/10/12/taxes-foncieres-limpact-victime-dune-injustice-selon-joey-saputo

Disappointment in financial results since joining MLS

I don't think Montreal and Vancouver are viable in MLS 3.0. He's now asking for help with taxes at the municipal level... 

He might end up seeing CPL more viable down the road than keep bleeding money if there's a path to profitability in CPL

Saputo's a shroud guy who's no stranger to milking a hand out or two from the politicians around here. I don't think there's much else in this.

[Ansem]

Saputo goes fully transparent and corroborate what the media was reporting 

https://www.impactmontreal.com/en/post/2018/10/15/amounts-invested-stade-saputo-and-centre-nutrilait

Not sure Garber and MLS as a whole appreciates the excess of honesty

The Forbes club value, a mirage

Forbes publishes an annual appraisal of the value of many sports clubs all over the world, including all MLS clubs. These numbers, however, are not based on any official data provided by the clubs or MLS itself.

Almost sounds like he wants Garber to end his financial suffering. The original French text says that these numbers aren't to be taken literally.

[shamrock]

Making comparisons with Atlanta United? They play in a brand new 1.6 bilion dollar stadium. That's just apples and pineapples. 

Saputo just wants the maximum he can get from Qc and/or Montreal government. No matter the operational costs, he still get's a chunk of those nice 9-figure expansion fees. And he sure as hell isn't going to give that up anytime soon. Once the major expansion is over, he might be tempted to take another huge sum for the (relocation of the) team and join CPL for a fraction of the costs.

[Tigers]

7 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

 Saputo's a shroud guy who's no stranger to milking a hand out

I see what you did there...

[youllneverwalkalone]

On 10/15/2018 at 5:38 AM, Sébastien said:

Just to correct a few matters:

The Government of Québec ended up paying the vast majority of the cost of the actual stadium, on top of the RIO basically giving away the land (sure he does not own it, but doubtful he would have built it had he had to find the land in the first place). I also understand that the idea of the stadium "not being his" is because he took the decision to put in place a non-profit (which has its own advantages) to own the stadium.

Lots of great information here on how Saputo asking taxpayers for more support is pretty ludicrous.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/1129753/joey-saputo-impact-montreal-mls-taxes-ville-montreal-chronique-martin-leclerc

Whether a sale and move with MLS would have him coming out slightly ahead or behind isn't really the point in my opinion. In this scenario he has paid for all the infrasteucture to move to the CPL and make money in that cost structure.

[Ansem]

 

 

[Blackjack15]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

 

The league needs to be in those four markets!

Nations Capital, province of Saskatchewan (Saskatoon), Quebec (Quebec City) represented is big and The Tri-Cities in Southern Ontario to cap off the list in ONT 

No Moncton or St John’s mentioned, I expect them to be included once CPL hits 16 Clubs and completes the Tier 1 Pyramid by 2024

[baulderdash77]

If your looking at the next round of expansion they’re on the right track for sure.  They need to be in Ottawa, Quebec City and Kitchener-London.

 

Here are Canada’s top 10 TV markets by viewers:

	Number of viewers in thousands
Toronto-Hamilton	7,659
Montreal	4,903
Vancouver-Victoria	3,640
Edmonton	1,929
Kitchener-London	1,908
Calgary	1,870
Ottawa-Gatineau	1,543
Quebec City	1,127
Winnipeg	1,033
East Central Ontario	737

Edited October 16, 2018 by baulderdash77

[Ansem]

Saputo's asking for a tax reduction of 91%

That's insane and there must be laughters at city hall this morning

https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/economie/immobilier/201810/17/01-5200575-stade-saputo-limpact-veut-une-baisse-de-91-de-ses-taxes-municipales.php

[Ansem]

The city of Montreal said no to Saputo on reducing his taxes.

Saputo needs a partner for the team or in my opinion, he'll be in an unsustainable place forcing him to make a decision, if MLS doesn't do it for him.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Ansem

[Alex D]

Saving some property tax won't cover $11 million in annual losses. If that figure is actually true, this league needs to figure out how to get tv ratings or accept that they should be a development, not destination league. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

http://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/checking-in-with-the-commissioner-from-open-trials

...Obviously, you’ve got to go through the vetting and everything else, but it’s great to see the outpouring. In Montreal, we have five different groups that are after us to get a team in that marketplace, whether it be Quebec City or Montreal or Sherbrooke. There’s a tremendous amount of work to be done, but as we do this across the country it becomes more real. It’s one thing to be out talking about identities for clubs and be in the markets and announce the league, but when you’re actually out doing something and creating rosters then it becomes tangible...

Edited October 20, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[MtlMario]

Not to be picky, but he said he was on the Montrreal TSN station, and that there are 5 interested groups in Quebec. 

[Ansem]

 

“I’m working on bringing a team to Montreal. That’s how much I believe in this league,” Bunbury reiterated.

“I’m willing to do whatever I need to do to bring a (CPL) club to a city that gave me so much.”

They’re encouraging aspirations from the face of an event that unfolded as it did due to the outpouring of support from players chasing their dreams.

“I hope the staff and people working behind the scenes saw I want this to happen and I want this to work,” Bunbury said.

“I thought about the importance of being involved in a league that we need for Canadians. It has been nothing but spectacular.”

[Ansem]

My top 4 choices for Stadiums in Montreal

• Downtown Montreal (Modular Stadium)

Those working to bring back the Montreal Expos have identified the Bassin Peel as a preferred location. New transit would be built in the area.

The city is looking to redevelop the area and it was a previous target for Cirque du Soleil:

 

• Ile Sainte-Helene or Ile Notre-Dame (Modular Stadium)

For Torontonians, imagine Toronto Islands with a subway station, Formula 1 track, Canada Wonderland, High Park and a Casino all in the same location. The Yellow Metro Line going there right between Downtown Montreal and Longueuil - South Shore, this location would be massively popular.

The Islands are already used for events:

 

• Université de Montreal (CEPSUM Stadium, Upgrade + expansion)

Located on the grounds of Université de Montreal on top of the Blue Metro line, it is located near some of Montreal most ethnically diverse and dense population

 

• Stade Percival Molson - McGill University (Existing CFL Stadium)

On the mountain side, it would be a similar situation as Forge and Valour. The least accessible in my opinion but there's no denying that view. I think shuttle buses runs from McGill Station on the Green Line

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ansem

[Rintaran]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

My top 3 choices for Stadiums in Montreal

 

• Downtown Montreal (Modular Stadium)

 

That's a mighty long list. I guess it's pretty obvious where you need it to be. I can't say I disagree!

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

That's a mighty long list. I guess it's pretty obvious where you need it to be. I can't say I disagree!

Lol I added other locations but the MAJOR mistake that Saputo did was to not build his stadium Downtown Montreal. He's too far east.

[MtlMario]

I live in Montreal but I think Laval would be the best location for a CPL team, BUT wherever it is, I'll be one of the first to buy double season tickets.??

[Impactsupporter]

Or maybe Seaway Park near Metro Longueuil (near CEGEP Champlain) About a 15 minute walk from the Metro.  Could add seats all around.    

FWIW I never even thought about Ile Ste-Helene.   If you put it close to Metro jean Drapeau, has potential.

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Centre Sportive Claude Robillard is the obvious one and could have been used at launch next summer pretty much as is given it has natural turf rather than garishly marked fieldturf, but maybe that doesn't fit some narrative you want about being closer to Downtown than the Impact.